Post ALCxqqETpXmo2i0Rpw by jordan@pleroma.crowesnest.io
(DIR) More posts by jordan@pleroma.crowesnest.io
(DIR) Post #ALCpC59AfujwnCZnmK by daniel@campduffel.social
2022-07-06T06:07:02Z
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@atyh Even if you're right to blame capitalism/consolidation, really won't it just give people what they want? If people valued beauty/quality/sustainability over whatever widget can get the job done the cheapest, we would get that don't you think?
(DIR) Post #ALCpJlz3o54rfyVxk8 by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2022-07-06T06:08:26.352642Z
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@daniel Has it given you what you want?
(DIR) Post #ALCqBfI2uUQaYM5ngO by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2022-07-06T06:18:10.791033Z
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@daniel I think of it like this...In the same way that decentralized, localized government of the people must be protected from the tendency toward centralization of power through law established in a Constitution, decentralized, localized free markets must be protected from the same phenomenon in the same way. Both big out of control government, and big out of control corporations are two forms of the same phenomenon.
(DIR) Post #ALCqmJHDiZkYzjBDpQ by ned@noagendasocial.com
2022-07-06T06:24:49Z
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@atyh @daniel Correct. That phenomenon is called Managerialism. And it means the power structure of the 2 are essentially merging. The goals are becoming those of the managers, not the owners, not the people.https://au1lib.org/book/4994947/602b02
(DIR) Post #ALCrMlwUcJcIKBs5vU by daniel@campduffel.social
2022-07-06T06:31:23Z
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@atyh Well, actually it does a lot of the time. A couple of years ago I remember sitting down to a dinner of filet mignon that I prepared with some vegetables and wine. I remember the cost for both me and my wife was $12 and that seemed like a miracle. There does seem to be more emerging markets to provide quality products as awareness of their existence spreads(Even in Walmart). It's not perfect and lately appears to have had a stroke.
(DIR) Post #ALCrr00Wt6LMdOAmOW by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2022-07-06T06:36:51.189066Z
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@ned @daniel Managerialism sounds like it doesnt fully encomass what Im talking about. It sounds more like a social phenomenon which occurs within heirarchical structures. Though it may be a primary driver for what Im refering to.I think that centralization is almost a primal force which must be continually resisted. Like a bulwark on a waterfront property. Bureacracy has built into itself the inherent tendency to become self-preservational, and self advancing. Even (or perhaps especially) bureacracies which were started for good reasons. They will always go beyond their mandate, and always try to grow beyond their purpouse. Because a resisting force must be applied, and because we dont want to fall into the trap of creating bureacracies to manage other bureacracies, the only force I can see which has shown any resilience is equally applied Rule of Law that exists above bureacratic authority. i.e. A Constitution. Of course Accumulation of Capital (The Love of Money) and the Love of Power will always try to circumvent these bulwarks, but they seem to at least be somewhat effective for a period of time. And it beats having to fight a war every couple of generations to bring the power structures back down to managable size.
(DIR) Post #ALCsELnU2aHgsFCo5o by ned@noagendasocial.com
2022-07-06T06:41:05Z
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@atyh @daniel You are almost exactly describing the process written about by Burnham. The difference is you still believe it can be walked backwards slowly. It can't. The only option is destroy and replace.
(DIR) Post #ALCsWOaOPVhejggeXo by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2022-07-06T06:44:20.211312Z
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@daniel And you believe that moving labor offshore and consolidating many businesses into one business made that possible?
(DIR) Post #ALCsZQwY6P8GuqV0BE by daniel@campduffel.social
2022-07-06T06:44:53Z
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@atyh @ned You guys are awesome to chat with! I agree about the primal force. You see it everywhere including code. That is why the, "do one thing and do it well" principle in Unix is so on point. It makes me think that smaller localized markets could work, but I wonder what kind of cap they could place on technological progress.
(DIR) Post #ALCsjyuMg1yr9SVUZc by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2022-07-06T06:46:47.487605Z
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@ned Well you just lost credibility there.You have no idea what I believe, or what Daniel believes. You just stepped into the middle of a conversation and starting assuming you know everything about everyone. Which just makes you look retarded. Stop projecting your own conclusions on every else and actually learn how to have a conversation. :fb-laugh:
(DIR) Post #ALCt3vZYmvLIb9HqNs by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2022-07-06T06:50:23.874223Z
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@daniel I dont think you would need to limit tech really. I think what is needed is what already existed in the U.S. before the 1930s, which is a strong resistance to Mega Chain stores and businesses. If the tech was built to facilitate trade and not as centralized platforms, I think this moves us all in a more sustainable direction.But people would have to CHOOSE it.
(DIR) Post #ALCtFlFkytdE4HfOQC by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2022-07-06T06:52:32.414809Z
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@daniel I should also mention that friendship is not contingent on agreement. :fb-laugh:
(DIR) Post #ALCtLXDg4QgaHVRmsq by daniel@campduffel.social
2022-07-06T06:53:35Z
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@atyh I think that's how it happened, but correlation doesn't imply causation. It might be possible to get the same/better results with better outcomes for more people.
(DIR) Post #ALCtmKfQqcp9AaCuFU by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2022-07-06T06:58:25.311409Z
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@daniel I dont go in for the "tax the rich" thing. I dont resent wealth. Particularly since "tax the rich" is based in making sure the 1% continue to exist so you can live off of them. It perpetuates the very system it complains about. I am more interested in understanding how the system has a tendency toward imbalance, and considering ways to enshrine decentralization to make millions of small local businesses possible.
(DIR) Post #ALCujc9dTTbYUTbQ2q by daniel@campduffel.social
2022-07-06T07:09:08Z
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@atyh True, that's why things like this are so powerful. It helps a lot of people understand history that they haven't been taught. I'm still playing catch-up.
(DIR) Post #ALCxqqETpXmo2i0Rpw by jordan@pleroma.crowesnest.io
2022-07-06T07:26:30.278188Z
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@atyh @daniel This makes me want to think.