Post AKPg8SiMPfpBxokzEO by artfors@mastodon.se
(DIR) More posts by artfors@mastodon.se
(DIR) Post #AKPKrDvO3BH88KmxJw by daksh@social.linux.pizza
2022-06-12T07:51:47Z
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which country would you say is best in terms of freedom and privacy
(DIR) Post #AKPRyCbu2CEXlOwxKi by thor@berserker.town
2022-06-12T09:09:23Z
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@daksh this is a very good question, since this is also a question of definitions
(DIR) Post #AKPRyDCPqRRNae27FI by SebastianGallehr@norden.social
2022-06-12T09:56:09Z
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@thorDefinition is key here. Especially freedom/security/privacy.By far not perfect, but I think looking at both, freedom and privacy Germany is doing not so bad in comparison to other states. But all countries are going backwards since 9/11 I would say?@daksh
(DIR) Post #AKPRyDgY2PXl668BDE by shellkr@mstdn.io
2022-06-12T10:25:56Z
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@SebastianGallehr @thor @daksh @steve I would think depends on where in a country you are. In the outer rim of most countries there is a larger freedom.. but freedom from the state doesn't necessarily lead to actual freedom. You take on many constraints living outside the comfy state. In Sweden you can get expert health care free of charge or go to school and get paid. So freedom i a relative term.. and pretty much impossible.
(DIR) Post #AKPSMVQfiZgP4yHlYG by thor@berserker.town
2022-06-12T10:30:17Z
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@shellkr @SebastianGallehr @daksh @steve even in a state with strict laws, i'm free to break those laws, as long as i'm prepared to face the consequences. and in a state that doesn't tax me and virtually all services are private, this could leave me with less freedom to act if i don't have the money to pay for them. it's all about tradeoffs.
(DIR) Post #AKPSdqKpFCkiq8omBc by shellkr@mstdn.io
2022-06-12T10:32:59Z
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@thor @SebastianGallehr @daksh @steve Yep, and at which state you are in life.... taxes leads to freedom to most and to restraints to some.
(DIR) Post #AKPSixnUvV2lQrfeO8 by thor@berserker.town
2022-06-12T10:32:38Z
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@shellkr @SebastianGallehr @daksh @steve the older i get, the more i think of things in terms of "interdependence" rather than "independence", because the pure version of the latter is just a hypothetical concept. if you live on planet earth, near other humans, what you do is going to be somebody else's business at some point or another, whether you like it or not, and whether it's the government that gets in your hair or somebody else.
(DIR) Post #AKPSiyGDCk0orv6a92 by shellkr@mstdn.io
2022-06-12T10:34:24Z
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@thor @SebastianGallehr @daksh @steve That was a good term. I like it.
(DIR) Post #AKPeHFk9oC14Qtf3po by artfors@mastodon.se
2022-06-12T11:25:14Z
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@shellkr @thor @SebastianGallehr @daksh @steve I think the Nordic countries are among the most free in terms of free speech and privacy.
(DIR) Post #AKPeHGH7pcO6595ODo by shellkr@mstdn.io
2022-06-12T12:43:25Z
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@artfors @thor @SebastianGallehr @daksh @steve I am not so sure about that. Perhaps if you are normative humanitarian secular this is true but if you divert from that it is different. If you are a nazi, child abuser or very conservative things would be different.I think the Nordic countries are very good at giving freedom of opportunity and being egalitarian. Which is not the same as unilateral freedom to do as you like..
(DIR) Post #AKPg8SiMPfpBxokzEO by artfors@mastodon.se
2022-06-12T12:51:50Z
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@shellkr @thor @SebastianGallehr @daksh @steve byt do you really wanna be a Nazi or a child abuser? Do you, really? I believe you are going for the extreme now.
(DIR) Post #AKPg8Y9qAvmEqUeVG4 by shellkr@mstdn.io
2022-06-12T13:04:40Z
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@artfors @thor @SebastianGallehr @daksh @steve They do exist so... and yes these are on the fringe. I only mentioned them as to be clear. How free you are depends on perspective. It is relative.We can take something more general maybe.. Take cars for instance.. in some countries you can drink and drive. Here you can't. In Germany you can drive how fast you like on some roads. Here you can't. In Denmark you can not dress as you like. Etc..
(DIR) Post #AKPzJDiOQ3spl4cDK4 by daksh@social.linux.pizza
2022-06-12T16:08:08Z
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everyone's comments here are making me drop the "freedom" parti think its not really as essential anymore. the original idea came from "software freedom", but i guess it is not as needed in real life. i guess i could still put "does not have really dumb laws" there but i think there aren't many of those, anyways (?)thanks for your input so far, everyone(the question still holds for privacy, though)@thor @SebastianGallehr @shellkr @artfors
(DIR) Post #AKPzJEEIVRP7M1Xh3I by Archivist@social.linux.pizza
2022-06-12T16:39:31Z
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@daksh well, freedoms are trade-offs. It is hard to quantify and qualify freedoms, and more freedoms also generally come at more risk.Privacy laws are weird everywhere because there is always someone that wants to spy on you for one purpose or the other. France is not too bad but has mass surveillance, Poland is worse but has less mass surveillance (officially), Switzerland is supposedly pretty good, but I would likely bet on Liechtenstein being the best mostly because it is small
(DIR) Post #AKQ0NZ9YkqUFMNxUC8 by StampedingLonghorn@social.linux.pizza
2022-06-12T16:51:31Z
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@Archivist @daksh Then in small towns everyone knows everything, including about you. Peer-to-peer mass surveillance? 🤔
(DIR) Post #AKQ3503omz6RAk6yzQ by Archivist@social.linux.pizza
2022-06-12T17:21:47Z
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@StampedingLonghorn @daksh well in small town they also know a lot of untrue stuff about you. Yes there is a lot of hearsay, but really most of it is wrong (at least that is the case for me as a small village inhabitant)But yeah small towns have those... hovercrafts (Poduszkowiec, using a Polish word for a Polish idiom) known as grandmas doing meticulous street surveillance
(DIR) Post #AKQ3Ig6HnUwZJxmvZI by StampedingLonghorn@social.linux.pizza
2022-06-12T17:24:16Z
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@Archivist @daksh Yes, that's another thing. It really can be untrue. Somehow a meow on one end of town becomes a moo on the other. Then word spreads around and everyone is saying baa.
(DIR) Post #AKQBL0JgP9WSETfstE by shellkr@mstdn.io
2022-06-12T18:53:51Z
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@daksh @thor @SebastianGallehr @artfors The privacy part is really difficult... We don't know much about what government and corps do covertly. Any NATO country cooperate on information and do so en masse. Authoritative countries are even worse.So I am thinking none.. If I had to pick perhaps Sweden or Switzerland but not really. Both countries are dependent on working with US for info and in return they are required to share what they know.