Post AJcKixmhba3pxY6vx2 by arh@mstdn.io
(DIR) More posts by arh@mstdn.io
(DIR) Post #AJcDO650rvZZvVmL4a by aspie4K@aspiechattr.me
2022-05-19T16:16:03Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
Politics in the last decade or so...
(DIR) Post #AJcEeTKcHsBeczRuUa by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:30:28Z
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@aspie4K they all are right. It's ironically painted in blue and red to show Democrats and Republicans which all are right-wing.
(DIR) Post #AJcEeTe77NmbbSZTsm by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:35:51Z
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@arh @aspie4K relative to what though?
(DIR) Post #AJcEsvC5UZkh60Lkau by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:38:28Z
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@Hyolobrika to actual left and right. To real socialists and communists and anarchists, etc. and real capitalists, conservatives, market libertarians, etc.@aspie4K
(DIR) Post #AJcF1kzGoH6y2wZFhI by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:40:04Z
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@arh @aspie4K Conservatives and right market libertarians consider the current system to be left-wing. Ask them.
(DIR) Post #AJcF5pjP75kRv05eam by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:40:50Z
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@Hyolobrika they can claim anything, the real ideologies won't change.@aspie4K
(DIR) Post #AJcF8ojTHej3gmXosi by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:41:20Z
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@arh @aspie4K define 'right' and 'left'
(DIR) Post #AJcFgH1F8THAyUoIWe by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:47:24Z
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@Hyolobrika it started around the French revolution I believe. The center is defined by the ideology of some between liberalism and conservatism. When we move left, we see socialism, communism, social libertarians, and anarchists. When we move right, we see conservatism, monarchism, Nazism, and Fascism. This is of course a simple not-complete explanation. @aspie4K
(DIR) Post #AJcG4SNkXWxVANrwDg by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:51:26Z
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@arh @aspie4K But the left in the French Revolution (the ones who sat in the literal left wing of the parliament building) were free-market liberals/libertarians. What we would consider the right today.
(DIR) Post #AJcG5Id8HaA3D9SxPs by aspie4K@aspiechattr.me
2022-05-19T16:48:08Z
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@arh @Hyolobrika On what authority do you determine the "real ideologies"?
(DIR) Post #AJcG5IsjLadbzWlPjE by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:48:38Z
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@aspie4K on my own.@Hyolobrika
(DIR) Post #AJcG5JDe5pMt2OY7KS by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:51:56Z
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@arh @aspie4K definitions are useless if we don't agree on them
(DIR) Post #AJcGd051l2inWbaEQC by aspie4K@aspiechattr.me
2022-05-19T16:55:00Z
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@arh @Hyolobrika Then they're not "real" in any objective sense, it's simply your personal opinion.
(DIR) Post #AJcGd0R0RKIoclrmgC by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:58:00Z
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@aspie4K @arh I think it's legitimate to judge how much someone fits the ideology they claim to believe in."Left" and "right" seem to vague to do that with, though.
(DIR) Post #AJcGdhYy5bDmNuvFYm by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T16:58:09Z
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@aspie4K @arh I think it's legitimate to judge how much someone fits the ideology they claim to believe in."Left" and "right" seem too vague to do that with, though.
(DIR) Post #AJcGoy4f2dJOmL7Prk by aspie4K@aspiechattr.me
2022-05-19T17:00:06Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Hyolobrika @arh Agreed. If you specify a certain ideology you can absolutely debate how much certain beliefs fit into it. But "left" and "right" are so vague they're practically useless descriptors.
(DIR) Post #AJcIkf1k7FPESHpN6u by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T17:21:20Z
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@Hyolobrika the left were freedom-fighters, others were consequences of decisions made after the revolution.@aspie4K
(DIR) Post #AJcIsQBHCJpkj8zHFY by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T17:23:13Z
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@Hyolobrika this we you're talking about is not you and me, it's the whole political action so if you don't agree, it's your decision solely, it won't matter to others.@aspie4K
(DIR) Post #AJcJ6KRjJdBEznJaZU by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T17:25:44Z
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@arh @aspie4K that means it does matter to others though. ideally an entire discourse should use terms the same way for everyone, otherwise confusion arises when one person sees a word used one way and interprets it differently to how it was intended
(DIR) Post #AJcJA34fqUzgHBIwCm by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T17:26:24Z
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@arh @aspie4K it depends on your definition of "freedom"
(DIR) Post #AJcJHs2ekSYgNN5ftY by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T17:27:49Z
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@Hyolobrika I think you don't understand what I'm saying. It may be because of my lack of ability to transfer what i mean.@aspie4K
(DIR) Post #AJcJbfjeDJ0e01dpku by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T17:30:57Z
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@Hyolobrika now you're just messing. I'm not going to continue.@aspie4K
(DIR) Post #AJcK1PiQOgLXqPLOQi by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T17:36:02Z
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@arh @aspie4K I'm not. words mean different thing to different people. I use "freedom" to mean "freedom from restrictions". other people, on the left, say that it's "freedom to learn and thrive" or something[1]. I don't really understand it.there's "positive" and "negative" freedom: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberty-positive-negative/[1] https://distributedweb.care/posts/who-owns-the-stars/
(DIR) Post #AJcKixmhba3pxY6vx2 by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T17:24:18Z
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@aspie4K no, it's what is decided by whole political action everywhere.@Hyolobrika
(DIR) Post #AJcKiy7GN8VWzJjM00 by aspie4K@aspiechattr.me
2022-05-19T17:34:37Z
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@arh @Hyolobrika "Everywhere"?Except a policy that'd be considered left wing in the USA could well be considered right wing in Sweden for instance.
(DIR) Post #AJcKiyPLHuy9tOBnBA by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T17:42:19Z
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@aspie4K from the start of the conversation and my first comment, it’s very clear that what area we’re talking about.@Hyolobrika
(DIR) Post #AJcKiyi8A3zwpeynSq by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T17:43:51Z
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@arh @aspie4K and a policy that would be considered right-wing in California would be considered left-wing in Texas. restricting the conversation to the US doesn't help
(DIR) Post #AJcL3UnQZu2G8REzJo by arh@mstdn.io
2022-05-19T17:47:34Z
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@Hyolobrika and the point of the conversation was that how idiotic and BS that is.@aspie4K
(DIR) Post #AJdThmWB6N8HTNqwuO by lxo@gnusocial.net
2022-05-20T06:51:02Z
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left and right are mainly arbitrary words that describe two actual leanings that people seem to be wired to prefer. one aspect that appears to be missing in the (part of the) conversation (that I can see) is that the left tends to be more collectivist (help your neighbor, no one left behind), whereas the right tends to be more individualist (survival of the fittest, "freedom" to exploit "suckers"). oddly (or interestingly) both sides claim to seek, defend and promote freedom, though authoritarian versions of both leanings will often conflate freedom with power to impose their notion of freedom on others. as most things, it's not black and white, but it's useful for frames of reference
(DIR) Post #AJdThmxTSsy0q2ckSG by Hyolobrika@mstdn.io
2022-05-20T06:59:15Z
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@lxo wired to prefer? are you sure?I think it's more helpful to use 'individualism' and 'collectivism' directly>authoritarian versions of both leanings will often conflate freedom with power to impose their notion of freedom on others@inference needs to hear this