Post AJApQ3yzzbWNpmS6MK by Cyia@metalhead.club
(DIR) More posts by Cyia@metalhead.club
(DIR) Post #AJAJv3Dpfqbtv17ftI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-05-06T05:22:44Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
I've noticed some otherwise very smart people have developed an almost cult-like antipathy to blockchains. The closed loop logic looks like;Them: blockchains are evil and wrong because use huge energyMe: point to peer-reviewed evidence that different blockchains have wildly different energy usage and that usage per user or transaction actually drops off after a certain scale is reachedThem: blockchains use huge energy for no legitimate uses#BlockChains
(DIR) Post #AJAKLpI9ZgPSX7uZ5k by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-05-06T05:27:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Me: points out a couple of arguably legitimate usesThem: these projects are bad for using a blockchain because huge energy useMe: points to earlier post about energy usage.Them: but that's still huge energy use for no legitimate usesEtc etc
(DIR) Post #AJANJUX65JJrQxTmnQ by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-05-06T06:00:57Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@strypey I was thinking about this recently. The idea that we have already found the perfect form of money or system of finance is absurd, and yet some people hate the idea of other people experimenting with novel forms of money.All the money in crypto is there voluntary, nobody was forced to speculate.Seems to me to be largely driven by fear (since money is power) and envy (because some people got very rich through it).
(DIR) Post #AJANYzq7y6YEsGm3NY by clacke@libranet.de
2022-05-06T05:53:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@strypey Blockchains, whether by proof of work, stake, space, whatever, substitute cost for trust.Trustless transactions have interesting applications, but the low transaction cost trust gives you makes it entirely superior for human-to-human and human-to-organization transactions.Moving from a high-trust society (Sweden) to a low-trust society (Hong Kong) was a real eye-opener for me in terms of how much trust buys you in terms of efficiency, even between fiat-based markets.
(DIR) Post #AJANZ0luVGlvlToCRc by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-05-06T06:03:48Z
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@clacke @strypey > but the low transaction cost trust gives you makes it entirely superior for human-to-human and human-to-organization transactions.Until that trust is abused and then you're screwed.Otter countries aren't going to easily replicate a high trust Scandinavian system and trust between people from different countries will also always be lower.
(DIR) Post #AJANi7CfxZIiJofXSy by Shamar@qoto.org
2022-05-06T06:05:28Z
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@strypeyMaybe those "otherwise very smart people" know CAP theorem?Or maybe they know a #Ponzi scheme when they see one?Or at least when crypto bilionaire explain #DeFi as Ponzi schemes?Or maybe they remember #TheDAO, that proved once for all that #blockchain can be rewritten?Or maybe they know several better alternatives to any application of blockchain (except for scam)Or maybe they know #PoS based cryptocurrency are institutionalozed plutarchies?Or maybe they know PoS assumes people having their highest stake on-chain (that is NEVER the case)?Or maybe they follow closely the matter since years (I started somewhere in between 2009 and 2012) and saw countless ICOs turning as plain scams?Or maybe they know about #Tether?You focus on the huge waste of energy of but in fact you are ignoring the legitimacy criticism of #cryptocurrency.Yes the cryptoindustry waste a huge amount of energy even if you do not count the one wasted in marketing, propaganda and lobbying.But that's just one of the issue.
(DIR) Post #AJASjq5V4AKHaKxD2e by bs@fosstodon.org
2022-05-06T07:01:28Z
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@strypey can I have some of these legitimate uses? Asking for a friend.
(DIR) Post #AJAUjZUCzR440MVl3Y by Shamar@qoto.org
2022-05-06T07:24:10Z
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@jcbrandInfact trust can be very effective AND safe if it's easy to reassign and can only be used transparently.#Blockchains are NOT trustless systems: you are just blindly trusting strangers you cannot easily hold accountable.This is particularly blatant in a "permissioned" #blockchain and in those based on #PoS, but it's also true for #PoW based ones: exchanges, developers, mining pools...So people using the blockchain are basically trusting the least trustworthy people out there without any effective mean to remove such trust (without loosing money, obviously).@clacke @strypey
(DIR) Post #AJAUkyVdRMtptyqcrI by Cyia@metalhead.club
2022-05-06T07:24:23Z
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@Shamar @strypey you don't like blockchain because people could get scammed with it? you'd rather have people get scammed by conventional server based methods with fiat money? Because that's the thing, right, i can scam people with everything, that doesn't mean the technology is bad or inferior to others, it just means people need to educate themselves and stop being fools out of greed.
(DIR) Post #AJAVCXIyB9E5db48sy by Cyia@metalhead.club
2022-05-06T07:29:02Z
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@strypey i don't think thats relevant, because blockchain uses these amounts of energy to *work*, while most of the energy the traditional banking sector uses is a waste byproduct of the service (petrol in money transporters, heating in offices, etc.).
(DIR) Post #AJAWuY5miFF0m8RvOa by Shamar@qoto.org
2022-05-06T07:48:33Z
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@CyiaDid you read what I wrote or you are just too angry to do so?The problem are not just few #blockchain based scams.Nor the rich illegal market of violent oppression based on it (drugs, weapons, pedo-pornography...)The blockchain itself is a math-washed large-scale scam-factory!Even just because there is ALWAYS a better technical solution to every single application of it (except for scams, obviously).Above I listed several reasons why a lot of "otherwise smart people" don't like this bandwagon.But there are many many others...Yet I admit tha between 2016 and 2019 the blockchain had a very effective and green application, unmatched by any other out there.You were able to discards tons of low quality candidates for a #developer #job with a simple script looking for few keywords in the resume #blockchain, #cryptocurrency, #SmartContract, #Ethereum and so forth.By looking for those keywords you were able to discard a lot of people who were either incompetent or unethical.Unfortunately after mid 2019 these kewords begun to disappear from the resumes.I've spotted tens of camdidates who resubmitted their resume after a while WITHOUT any reference to the blockchain.Last year I interviewed two of them and asked (resume at hand) why they did removed any reference to the blockchain.One replied "I realised my company was a scaming people and quit".The other replied something like "you know, these days a past in crypto can be a liability for your carreer".🤷‍♂️@strypey
(DIR) Post #AJAX4kfQoXHKfhzJhY by Shamar@qoto.org
2022-05-06T07:50:24Z
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@CyiaDid you read what I wrote or you are just too angry to do so?The problem are not just few #blockchain based scams.Nor the rich illegal market of violent oppression based on it (drugs, weapons, pedo-pornography...)The blockchain itself is a math-washed large-scale scam-factory!Even just because there is ALWAYS a better technical solution to every single application of it (except for scams, obviously).Above I listed several reasons why a lot of "otherwise smart people" don't like this bandwagon.But there are many many others...Yet I admit tha between 2016 and 2019 the blockchain had a very effective and green application, unmatched by any other out there.You were able to discards tons of low quality candidates for a #developer #job with a simple script looking for few keywords in the resume: #blockchain, #cryptocurrency, #SmartContract, #Ethereum and so forth.By looking for those keywords you were able to discard a lot of people who were either incompetent or unethical.Unfortunately after mid 2019 these keywords begun to disappear from the resumes.I've spotted tens of camdidates who resubmitted their #resume after a while WITHOUT any reference to the blockchain.Last year I interviewed two of them and asked (resume at hand) why they did removed any reference to the blockchain.One replied "I realised my company was a scaming people and quit".The other replied something like "you know, these days a past in crypto can be a liability for your carreer".🤷‍♂️@strypey
(DIR) Post #AJAXDnfr0Jx8bTV4kK by Shamar@qoto.org
2022-05-06T07:52:03Z
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@CyiaDid you read what I wrote or you are just too angry to do so?The problem are not just few #blockchain based scams.Nor the rich illegal market of violent oppression based on it (drugs, weapons, pedo-pornography...)The blockchain itself is a math-washed large-scale scam-factory!Even just because there is ALWAYS a better technical solution to every single application of it (except for scams, obviously).Above I listed several reasons why a lot of "otherwise smart people" don't like this bandwagon.But there are many many others...Yet I have to admit that between 2016 and 2019 the blockchain had a very effective and green application, unmatched by any other out there.You were able to discards tons of low quality candidates for a #developer #job with a simple script looking for few keywords in the resume: #blockchain, #cryptocurrency, #SmartContract, #Ethereum and so forth.By looking for those keywords you were able to discard a lot of people who were either incompetent or unethical.Unfortunately after mid 2019 these keywords begun to disappear from the resumes.I've spotted tens of candidates who resubmitted their #resume after a while WITHOUT any reference to the blockchain.Last year I interviewed two of them and asked (resumes at hand) why they removed any reference to the blockchain.One replied "I realised my company was a scaming people and quit".The other replied something like "you know, these days a past in crypto can be a liability for your carreer".🤷‍♂️@strypey
(DIR) Post #AJAYaZIWikJgdB0f6O by Cyia@metalhead.club
2022-05-06T08:07:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Shamar @strypey i'm not angry at all ;-)if blockchain itself is so evil, then im not one of the smart people to have realized that (yet). I think i am smart enough, however, to realize that the energy computers use to operate the blockchain is not the huge deal everybody tries to make it look like, especially compared to traditional banking.Do you also think traditional banking is math washed scam? So you have resources to educate me about blockchain?
(DIR) Post #AJAcGxVvNMeplEBIsy by Shamar@qoto.org
2022-05-06T08:48:38Z
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@CyiaTraditional banking is not a math-washed scam, but for sure the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act of 1999 the west finance enabled thousands of scams culminated in the 2007-2008 global crisis.You know, side effects of US imperialism… 🤷‍♂️As for the energy consumption of the whole banking system, even the most ridiculous calculation I can find (this one: https://hackernoon.com/the-bitcoin-vs-visa-electricity-consumption-fallacy-8cf194987a50 ), forget to mention that such banking system serve several order of magnitude more transactions than the whole criptoindustry.Even taking into account the millions of fake #NTF transactions used to pump their price!As for educating you about the limits of #blockchain I really would not know where to start…After more than ten years #blockchain is an old tech still lacking a real problem to solve.Maybe this interview at FTX boss might open your eyes: https://www.bqprime.com/onweb/sam-bankman-fried-described-yield-farming-and-left-matt-levine-stunnedOr might be not.You know @strypey ironized that “people otherwise smart” have a “cult-like antipathy” against the #blockchain.In fact psychology has a category that fit well with crypto-believers: religious.It’s a psychiatric disorder where people believe something surreal despite all evidence.Having saw a loved friend facing such issue I had to study the issue for a while.It was scary because the more you argued against the false beliefs, the more the person delves deeper into the delusion, constructing surreal explanations to justify the contradiction you show them.So I learned that delusions are due to experiences that contradict deep beliefs over which your own identity is based.It might happen, for example, when a person discover to be attracted by people of the same sex at a late age after a life as a seducer or something like that.So usually arguing about the belief is pointless, people simply cannot accept what they experience and invent the best explanation they can.(and note that the smarter is the person, the harder is to spot the issue as the construction might be incredibly realistic!)Anyway, in #DeFi and cryptoindustrly there are tons of people who know they are scamming people and they are fine with it.But there are also several people who cannot quit either because “it’s a liability for your career” or because they’ve bound their identity to such bullshit too strongly.In such case there is nothing anybody can say or show to make them change their mind.I hope it’s not your case.Good luck!
(DIR) Post #AJAcc3VoGnkyReBgIq by Shamar@qoto.org
2022-05-06T08:52:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CyiaTraditional banking is not a math-washed scam, but for sure the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act of 1999 finance enabled thousands of scams culminated in the 2007-2008 global crisis.You know, side effects of US imperialism… 🤷‍♂️As for the energy consumption of the whole banking system, even the most ridiculous calculation I can find (this one: https://hackernoon.com/the-bitcoin-vs-visa-electricity-consumption-fallacy-8cf194987a50 ), forget to mention that such banking system serve several order of magnitude more transactions than the whole criptoindustry.Even taking into account the millions of fake #NTF transactions used to pump their price!As for educating you about the limits of #blockchain I really would not know where to start…After more than ten years #blockchain is an old tech still lacking a real problem to solve.Maybe this interview at FTX boss might open your eyes: https://www.bqprime.com/onweb/sam-bankman-fried-described-yield-farming-and-left-matt-levine-stunnedOr might be not.You know @strypey joked that “people otherwise smart” have a “cult-like antipathy” against the #blockchain.In fact psychology has a category that fit well with crypto-believers: #delusion.It’s a psychiatric disorder where people believe something surreal despite all evidences.Having saw a loved friend facing such issue, I had to study the issue for a while.It was scary because the more you argued against the false beliefs, the more the person delves deeper into the delusion, constructing surreal explanations to justify the contradiction you show them.So I learned that delusions are due to experiences that contradict deep beliefs over which your own identity is based.It might happen, for example, when a person discover to be attracted by people of the same sex at a late age, after a life as a seducer or something like that.So usually arguing about the belief is pointless, people simply cannot accept what they experience and invent the best explanation they can.(and note that the smarter is the person, the harder is to spot the issue as the construction might be incredibly realistic!)Anyway, in #DeFi and cryptoindustrly there are tons of people who know they are scamming people and they are fine with it.But there are also several people who cannot quit either because “it’s a liability for your career” or because they’ve bound their identity to such bullshit too strongly.In such case there is nothing anybody can say or show to make them change their mind.I hope it’s not your case.Good luck!
(DIR) Post #AJAcxBtWId6MWXM78K by Shamar@qoto.org
2022-05-06T08:56:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CyiaTraditional banking is not a math-washed scam, but for sure the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act of 1999 enabled thousands of financial scams culminated in the 2007-2008 global crisis.You know, side effects of US imperialism… 🤷‍♂️As for the energy consumption of the whole banking system, even the most ridiculous calculation I can find (this one: https://hackernoon.com/the-bitcoin-vs-visa-electricity-consumption-fallacy-8cf194987a50 ), forget to mention that such banking system serve several order of magnitude more transactions than the whole criptoindustry.Even taking into account the millions of fake #NTF transactions used to pump their price!As for educating you about the limits of #blockchain I really would not know where to start…After more than ten years #blockchain is an old tech still lacking a real problem to solve.Maybe this interview at FTX boss might open your eyes: https://www.bqprime.com/onweb/sam-bankman-fried-described-yield-farming-and-left-matt-levine-stunnedOr might be not.You know @strypey joked that “people otherwise smart” have a “cult-like antipathy” against the #blockchain.In fact psychology has a category that fit well with crypto-believers: #delusion.It’s a psychiatric disorder where people believe something surreal despite all evidences.Having saw a loved friend facing such issue, I had to study the issue for a while.It was scary because the more you argued against the false beliefs, the more the person delves deeper into the delusion, constructing surreal explanations to justify the contradiction you show them.So I learned that delusions are due to experiences that contradict deep beliefs over which your own identity is based.It might happen, for example, when a person discover to be attracted by people of the same sex at a late age, after a life as a seducer or something like that.So usually arguing about the belief is pointless, people simply cannot accept what they experience and invent the best explanation they can.(and note that the smarter is the person, the harder is to spot the issue as the construction might be incredibly realistic!)Anyway, in #DeFi and cryptoindustry there are tons of unscrupulous people who know they are scamming people and they are fine with it.But there are also several people who cannot quit either because “it’s a liability for your career” or because they’ve bound their identity to such bullshit too strongly.In such case there is nothing anybody can say or show to make them change their mind.I hope it’s not your case.Good luck!
(DIR) Post #AJAi19nCYWP6vy6vqK by Cyia@metalhead.club
2022-05-06T09:52:59Z
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@Shamar @strypey the bqprime-article is not available in my region, i'll read that later on pc.As for the other article, doesn't it state the same thing i think, that the traditional banking sector uses far more energy, and not for the transactions themselves, but everything else required? I like the idea of blockchain being more efficient with the amount of energy it uses.I don't think i'm suffering from delusion here (i'm not using crypto at all), only interested.
(DIR) Post #AJAk9OgHHjZHKmvfrE by Shamar@qoto.org
2022-05-06T10:16:54Z
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@CyiaThe fact is that the whole monetary systen (that includes banking, paypal, visa, mastercard...) may even consume 10 times more energy than the #cryptocurrency one (and it doesn't) overall BUT it serves billions times more transactions.To estimate the difference you shouldn't just count computers transactions but all cash transactions.That's why these energy comparison are ridiculous.@strypey
(DIR) Post #AJAkB0pGwqBHvduGlE by Shamar@qoto.org
2022-05-06T10:17:13Z
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@CyiaThe fact is that the whole monetary systen (that includes banking, paypal, visa, mastercard...) may even consume 10 times more energy than the #cryptocurrency one (and it doesn't) overall BUT it serves billions times more transactions.To estimate the difference you shouldn't just count computers transactions but all cash transactions.That's why these energy comparisons are ridiculous.@strypey
(DIR) Post #AJApQ3yzzbWNpmS6MK by Cyia@metalhead.club
2022-05-06T11:15:54Z
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@Shamar @strypey i totally get that, fiat is used for offline transactions and many more online transactions as well. But would blockchain comsume more energy if it was used for every transaction, and if yes, wouldn't it be worth it (kinda like industrialization was supposed to free us from manual labour and human inconsistency)?BTW: You don't happen to have another recommendation for ethical micro-payments?
(DIR) Post #AJB1HX5LcVjAwB7XU0 by Shamar@qoto.org
2022-05-06T13:28:52Z
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@Cyia You might likehttps://en.goteo.org/Another interesting project is #GNU Taler but I've never used it https://taler.net/en/@strypey
(DIR) Post #AJBGnQxxPBfiXQKjnE by Cyia@metalhead.club
2022-05-06T16:22:38Z
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@Shamar @strypey i think i like goteo, but i'm lost on their site due to my lack of spanish^^ seems to be focused on long-term-financing via crowdfunding.I've read about gnu taler before, it's exactly what i'm looking for, but i couldn't find a real exchange (only a fantasy bank in a demo).I think it would be revolutionary (and avoiding the problems of blockchain incl. energy expendeture).Seems i'm/we're stuck with conventional banking for now.
(DIR) Post #AJCNlNIaxiiNQGubB2 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-05-07T05:15:12Z
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@aflyingpumpkin The one I was thinking of was 'The Energy Consumption of Blockchain Technology: Beyond Myth', published in the journal Business & Information Systems Engineering, in 2020:https://doi.org/10.1007/s12599-020-00656-x#blockchains #energy
(DIR) Post #AJD1fmFVHWYtEWLqvA by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-05-07T12:42:39Z
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@jcbrand @strypey This is actually very well put. I point out very often how #Bitcoin is the most peaceful form of money around. It doesn't force anyone to do anything. No army, no slaves