Post AJ9AmC6MbArMPjUXa4 by jogi@graz.social
 (DIR) More posts by jogi@graz.social
 (DIR) Post #AJ8cvw4VegzF9W68OW by publicvoit@graz.social
       2022-05-05T09:37:08Z
       
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       RT @krupali@twitter.comShe said it best.🐦🔗: https://twitter.com/krupali/status/1521822961845477376
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ8cw09cTdS1oWWGum by Evillarry@noagendasocial.com
       2022-05-05T09:46:37Z
       
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       @publicvoit uh…murder is kinda an every no religion thingy…saying it’s your body has nothing to do with killing an unborn child. If it was “your “ body the it would be called suicide not an abortion, her body is a vessel. Nothing more. Want to take care of that vessel then treat it like a car and don’t wreck it
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ8hILUOEa9sAe91nc by publicvoit@graz.social
       2022-05-05T10:35:28Z
       
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       @Evillarry You have really no idea about the situation of pregnant woman and their options. 😔You can only prevent legal abortions. Whoever is promoting this is killing many women who are forced to abort illegally. If you're deciding against, that's your right. But forcing other persons is really a bad and unethical move.
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ8xGNESNhWWGQm1vE by jogi@graz.social
       2022-05-05T13:34:24Z
       
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       @Evillarry @publicvoit abortion is not murder, period.
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ8yMBjg8aRQIfiKFU by Evillarry@noagendasocial.com
       2022-05-05T13:46:41Z
       
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       @jogi @publicvoit oh. I guess a dead babie is just a figment of your imagination, please shoot yourself in the face and get back to us on how “abortion” works. You stupid fucking moron.
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ9AmC6MbArMPjUXa4 by jogi@graz.social
       2022-05-05T16:05:46Z
       
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       @Evillarry @publicvoit nice going! out of arguments you resort to insult. i pitty you 😟
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ9IRjFIyPIKlFQUHg by hlukasz@101010.pl
       2022-05-05T11:34:08Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @publicvoit Your logic leads to the following: it doesn't matter if some action is ethical or not (killing child, no matter born or unborn, is not in my opinion) - we should allow it because in other case people will do it illegally what is more dangerous. Do you agree with that?@Evillarry
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ9IRjlD3mocMCLy0u by rcz@101010.pl
       2022-05-05T14:13:10Z
       
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       @hlukasz That's not actually the point of the argument. @publicvoit made a point about trying to *force* people to do things with their bodies (here: continue with gestation).So the point is not: “it doesn't matter if an action is ethical, because doing stuff illegal is dangerous”. There is a moral principle at play, and the principle is *dignity*, which precludes treating people (and yes, it includes women together with their reproductive systems) like things for other people to use.The point is: you're not entitled to make choices whether an action is ethical or not, if the choice you want to make involves using another person's body as a tool (here: using the woman's uterus for continued gestation).It's just not your choice to make, it's hers. She isn't an instrument for you to freely use in your ethical dillema. She's a person with her own will. She *will* be making choices about how her body is used, and every moral person around her *will* respect her agency and *will* support her. So the abortions *will* be happening either way. All the law can do is institute a stupid rule which will make this process more dangerous.@Evillarry
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ9IRkOYhUI6KElOLY by hlukasz@101010.pl
       2022-05-05T14:50:23Z
       
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       @rcz I do not force anybody to do anything with they body. However, freedom of one person is limited by freedom of the other.If there will be a way to extract unborn child from woman's body and put somewhere else to finish gestation without any harm to the child - I will not have any objections about the abortion.However, I am totally against situation where somebody sacrifices life of another human to achieve some benefits.If I need to have a heart transplantation, can I kill somebody and take they heart? That is ridiculous. Why then you want to allow that kind of situation when victim is an unborn child?@publicvoit @Evillarry
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ9IRl1CNpCQG4qFZg by rcz@101010.pl
       2022-05-05T15:15:11Z
       
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       @hlukasz Right. Not only can't you kill someone to get their heart — you can't use other people's bodies against their will in non-lethal ways either. You can't get their kidney. You can't use their blood. You can't use their uterus. Even if you really need to.Even if a person has the only kidney available for you and you die without it — you can't use it. Not against their will. Your need for the kidney doesn't trump their bodily autonomy, their dignity.A woman is a person. Her body, including the uterus, is not for anyone else to use against her will. Even if you can't save the fetus in any other way — the need of the fetus doesn't trump her bodily autonomy, her dignity.A person is not a tool. A woman is not an appliance for saving babies.She may well be the only person with the power to save the fetus using her body — but it doesn't mean she can be forced to.@publicvoit @Evillarry
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ9IRlfxwFoEIVuo7M by Evillarry@noagendasocial.com
       2022-05-05T17:31:45Z
       
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       @rcz @hlukasz @publicvoit then don’t randomly fuck someone…and let’s dont use the rape or incest argument either. The core function of a female is to bare a child. Period. If you want to have sex then use the gd free af devices afforded to you. Period. And to the skippymcdumbfuck who can’t handle being called an idiot…if I have to explain ACTUAL FUCKING FACTS about what murder is then let’s all take a breath and hope your parents didn’t raise anymore morons.
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ9Ojxm8I7CmlErKQC by rcz@101010.pl
       2022-05-05T18:42:14Z
       
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       @Evillarry Women aren't appliances with a “core function”, they are people with agency.There's more: Women still have the same rights *even after they have sex*.Shocker, I know. @hlukasz @publicvoit
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ9cQT3nfCUpM8il8q by hlukasz@101010.pl
       2022-05-05T17:18:21Z
       
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       @rcz You said "you can't use other people's bodies against their will" and few lines below you allow woman to kill fetus if she wants.The only way to make it consistent is to assume that fetus is not a human being. If we make that assumption - when it becomes a human then?@publicvoit @Evillarry
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ9cQTdxUlQ5AHddVA by rcz@101010.pl
       2022-05-05T18:37:28Z
       
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       @hlukasz No, I didn't even need this assumption. Read my argument carefully. I'm just saying the fetus doesn't get more rights than a person, and a woman doesn't get less.The woman isn't _using_ a fetus for anything, she just wants the fetus to stop using her uterus. She wants the fetus out of her body. It's the fetus that needs to use the woman's body, not the other way around. She's fine without the fetus.The woman doesn't have a right to “kill the fetus if she wants”, the same way you don't have the right to “kill me if you want”.But if I need to use a part of your body (a kidney, marrow, liver, blood, whatever) to survive, you still should have the autonomy to decide if I can use it. Your negative decision can at times even predictably result in my death, but it doesn't give me the right to use your body against your will. I hope this is pretty uncontroversial.The same way, the fetus needs the woman's body to survive, but she should still have the autonomy to decide if it can use it. Her decision can predictably result in the death of the fetus, but it doesn't give it the right to use her body against her will.@publicvoit @Evillarry
       
 (DIR) Post #AJ9cQUOkgmqlVPX0RE by Evillarry@noagendasocial.com
       2022-05-05T21:15:38Z
       
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       @rcz @hlukasz @publicvoit you still posting nonsensical diatribe radek…well I can easily fix it. #block
       
 (DIR) Post #AJAn9FhQyeG3LF5nxA by jogi@graz.social
       2022-05-05T13:37:46Z
       
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       @hlukasz @publicvoit @Evillarry no, the logic just implies that it's ethical and hence should be legal to perform abortions.
       
 (DIR) Post #AJAn9GEkykuf0agPtQ by hlukasz@101010.pl
       2022-05-05T13:51:16Z
       
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       @jogi Only because in other way women will go to some "underground clinics"?@publicvoit @Evillarry
       
 (DIR) Post #AJAn9H8PdpQrnCirdw by jogi@graz.social
       2022-05-06T09:52:48Z
       
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       @hlukasznot only because of that but because I think that anyone should be able to decide about their body and because I think that cells inside a uterus are not a person/baby.the definition of when someone is a person is obviously key to the discussion.@publicvoit @Evillarry
       
 (DIR) Post #AJAn9HefhtEjPFocvQ by Evillarry@noagendasocial.com
       2022-05-06T10:50:29Z
       
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       @jogi @hlukasz @publicvoit so, you become a human once you magically pass thru a vagina…again another skippymcdumbfuck that’s taking up resources for no other reason than cosmic humor. What’s next you identify as…let’s break that nonsense down to it’s called “I’m pretending to be” there is zero FUCKING ZERO arguments about clumps of cells. Your beliefs don’t factor in, it’s a human. Period.