Post AJ5WtpAVAVjfxodBIm by projectmoon@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by projectmoon@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AJ4sidvYcrVnkSkq3c by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T14:24:39Z
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Wow, two miracles happened this week!The first is that #SCOTUS delegalized #abortion The second is that all my profs announced the dates and times of their finals on #Canvas
(DIR) Post #AJ4tYat7AgQ5NdNrw8 by schratze@todon.nl
2022-05-03T14:34:00Z
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@realcaseyrollins are you happy about the abortion thing?
(DIR) Post #AJ4xXtIPe2f5zz8Yz2 by genmaicha@stereophonic.space
2022-05-03T15:18:45.333728Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@realcaseyrollins the supreme court thing was just a draft, it doesn't mean anything concrete
(DIR) Post #AJ4zt4KQ1PVGCkIlGK by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T15:44:59Z
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@schratze Oh yeah! It's a very exciting and long overdue human rights victory! 🥳
(DIR) Post #AJ50I6UL7zbu8wsbCK by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T15:49:30Z
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@genmaicha Yes that's true, I suppose my excitement deserves to be hedged a lil bit
(DIR) Post #AJ50rYy7ENRQbniPlg by schratze@todon.nl
2022-05-03T15:55:53Z
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@realcaseyrollins cool human rights that prevent people from having control over their own bodies
(DIR) Post #AJ51a1vGwQKP9MaZbU by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T16:03:57Z
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@schratze I don't think one can use the "stop controlling my body" argument to establish that they should be able to kill others
(DIR) Post #AJ52CudDz1SvpZghhg by schratze@todon.nl
2022-05-03T16:10:57Z
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@realcaseyrollins this is such a disingenuous argument. You're talking about a lump of cells that is completely dependent on the parent's body. Why do you make a fuss about a fetus but as soon as the child is born, you stop giving a damn about it?The US military is killing people abroad, US cops are killing civilians in the country, ICE and militias are sticking people in cages and torturing them to death. Stop all these injustices before you turn towards taking away agency from women and forcing them to undergo dangerous illegal medical processes in the name of "protecting life"
(DIR) Post #AJ52uyemNa133XQWQK by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T16:18:56Z
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@schratze > this is such a disingenuous argument. You're talking about a lump of cells that is completely dependent on the parent's body.You are a lump of cells also, as am I. We're a bit lumpier lol but nonetheless, we're all human.> Why do you make a fuss about a fetus but as soon as the child is born, you stop giving a damn about it?Where did I say that that's what I do? Because I don't. And if you look in my other thread and replies I state that safety nets for single parents need to be expanded.> The US military is killing people abroadNot entirely unusual for a military to do, to be fair> US cops are killing civilians in the countryAs well as being killed by civilians in the #USA> ICE and militias are sticking people in cagesThis is definitely bad and needs to end> and torturing them to death.According to who? Where? When?> taking away agency from women Again I don't think people should have the agency to murder others> forcing them to undergo dangerous illegal medical processesWho is doing this, and how?
(DIR) Post #AJ53lQQMNylOEXgvRI by schratze@todon.nl
2022-05-03T16:28:23Z
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@realcaseyrollins it's very disingenuous to speak of abortion as murder, which it isn't, and to relativize the genocides that the US is actively committing in the same post.Ever heard of ICE? Or of Guantanamo Bay?
(DIR) Post #AJ54P8zwaw6XlrH6iO by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T16:35:35Z
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@schratze > it's very disingenuous to speak of abortion as murder, which it isn'tWhy isn't abortion murder? It ends the life of another human without cause, which I think is the generally accepted definition of murder.
(DIR) Post #AJ59qvHPgxRr6UVlQG by projectmoon@fosstodon.org
2022-05-03T17:36:37Z
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@realcaseyrollins @genmaicha Fetuses don't develop anything close to "humanity" for many many months. There is a reason that abortion is illegal after 20 - 24 weeks of pregnancy in many countries, except in cases of medical emergencies that present a threat to life of the mother. Banning abortion doesn't make it go away. It just pushes it underground and makes it more dangerous. It's like the "War on Drugs." This will have drastic consequences for millions of people and increase child suffering.
(DIR) Post #AJ5Ahi2Lex9nNZdRqa by schratze@todon.nl
2022-05-03T17:42:50Z
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@realcaseyrollins it's not? It's removing a developing fetus from the body of an unwilling parent. The fetus doesn't think, doesn't feel, doesn't have any autonomy or will. It is basically a parasite in the parent's body if it isn't wanted there.
(DIR) Post #AJ5C9kaNsN6pLaURsG by jiminfantino@mastodon.social
2022-05-03T18:02:18Z
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@realcaseyrollins Legally, murder is "The unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse." So no, it's not murder. The essential question is whether the equal protection rights of a woman to control her own body and not be made a slave by her pregnancy are overridden by the equal protection of the fetus. The fetus, being unborn, doesn't enjoy equal protection under the 14th amendment. The rights of the mother supersede.
(DIR) Post #AJ5PWivjUqn2HDlDhg by projectmoon@fosstodon.org
2022-05-03T17:36:52Z
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@realcaseyrollins @genmaicha Supporting a blanket ban on abortion is supporting more women and girls dying or getting injured. It's supporting higher rates of teen pregnancy, along with increased poverty and decreased social mobility. More mental health trauma in the population that are not ready raise a child. More unwanted children being subject to abuse or abandonment. It's supporting obvious non viable births going to term, where babies might live for hours or days in agony before dying.
(DIR) Post #AJ5PWk1nPnEZgJbZnE by projectmoon@fosstodon.org
2022-05-03T17:43:29Z
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@realcaseyrollins @genmaicha It's supporting further erosion of civil rights in the United States. The reactionary right wing extremists are going to go after gay marriage next. When homosexuality was criminalized, gay people faced discrimination and increased chance of suicide and the like. Ironically, the "pro life" position only drastically increase suffering. When will extremists repeal miscegenation laws? Keep in mind at least one lawmaker has suggested it should be a states right issue.
(DIR) Post #AJ5PWkdj8lZjZxLruq by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T20:32:15Z
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@projectmoon @genmaicha > Fetuses don't develop anything close to "humanity" for many many months.This is certifiably false. I made a post earlier explaining how and why fetuses are human beings which you can read here, it's mostly links to scientific studies and such: https://social.freetalklive.com/@realcaseyrollins/108238975500588207But it's been widely selected for awhile that human fetuses are, in fact, human, as well as that they have their own DNA, which is a common argument used to defend their personhood> Banning abortion doesn't make it go away. It just pushes it underground and makes it more dangerous. It's like the "War on Drugs." This will have drastic consequences for millions of people and increase child suffering.That's a sad reality, but you can't blame the government for the behaviors of their people. The "war on drugs" is different because that violates the right to pursuit of happiness, while the #prolife movement, while violating the right to pursuit of happiness for begrudging mothers, it supports the right that their children have to live and not be killed.> Supporting a blanket ban on abortion is supporting more women and girls dying or getting injured. It's supporting higher rates of teen pregnancy, along with increased poverty and decreased social mobility. More mental health trauma in the population that are not ready raise a child. More unwanted children being subject to abuse or abandonment. It's supporting obvious non viable births going to term, where babies might live for hours or days in agony before dying.
(DIR) Post #AJ5PXJCedPiSm7xF4q by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T20:32:23Z
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@projectmoon @genmaicha > It's supporting further erosion of civil rights in the United States. The reactionary right wing extremists are going to go after gay marriage next. When homosexuality was criminalized, gay people faced discrimination and increased chance of suicide and the like. Ironically, the "pro life" position only drastically increase suffering. When will extremists repeal miscegenation laws? Keep in mind at least one lawmaker has suggested it should be a states right issue.The religious right has already been going after gay marriage but they can't use the same arguments because these are two very different situations and "rights", requiring different justifications for those positions. Therefore #SCOTUS ceding one to the right doesn't mean they'll cede the other to the right as well.
(DIR) Post #AJ5QCTeufIfr4mnqQi by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T20:39:49Z
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@schratze > it's not? It's removing a developing fetus from the body of an unwilling parent. The fetus doesn't think, doesn't feel, doesn't have any autonomy or will. It is basically a parasite in the parent's body if it isn't wanted there.I find it pretty easy to establish that fetuses are human beings, as I have done so here: https://social.freetalklive.com/@realcaseyrollins/108238975500588207The question here is whether or not this human being is a person. I personally don't think it's wise to be the sorts of criteria you're mentioning here, since they're ableist and can easily be twisted and tweaked to include those who have already been born as well.
(DIR) Post #AJ5QUlplpTA6eqbWnA by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T20:43:07Z
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@jiminfantino > Legally, murder is "The unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse." So no, it's not murder.You're wrong here. "I'll be poor" or "I don't wanna" or "It's inconvenient" aren't good justifications or excuses. I have yet to see the murder of somebody outside of the womb use this sort of excuse in court and win.
(DIR) Post #AJ5RAqAW6TNwGQMvD6 by jiminfantino@mastodon.social
2022-05-03T20:50:43Z
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@realcaseyrollins Go talk to some women who have had abortions. The way the world works in your mind is not always the way the actual world works. Also, look up the legal definition of murder. It's a thing. The question is, does the state have the right to arbitrate between the rights of a woman and her unborn? Not all pregnancies are at all intentional and some are forced. Enslaving women is not the answer. Abortions should be safe, legal, and Rare.
(DIR) Post #AJ5RVU7bGjbby2qfNA by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T20:54:27Z
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@jiminfantino > The way the world works in your mind is not always the way the actual world works.Exactly the reason I've been having to explain the same thing over and over again to peeps and fedifriends on the left side of the aisle on this issue.> Also, look up the legal definition of murder. It's a thing. This is a good point. Somebody else told me it merely meant killing someone without cause, but it also says "malice aforethought". Homocide seems more applicable here.> The question is, does the state have the right to arbitrate between the rights of a woman and her unborn? Not all pregnancies are at all intentional and some are forced. Enslaving women is not the answer. Abortions should be safe, legal, and Rare.I mean, does the state have the right to arbitrate between the rights of any two people? The answer time and time again has been yes. In various courts all the time, the judges and juries decide whether or not one violated the rights of another, and if both violated each others' rights, whose rights take precedent.
(DIR) Post #AJ5VTIi37y6RoL6y1o by jiminfantino@mastodon.social
2022-05-03T21:38:51Z
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@realcaseyrollins So it does come down to the legal definition of a person in the constitution. I refer you to the 14th amendment which established equal protection under the law. Please note the first sentence. A fetus is neither naturalized nor born. Our laws were not made to intercede between a mother and her unborn. We may believe in the personhood of the unborn, but it is not law, nor should it be.
(DIR) Post #AJ5W2MYIpe3jrfGsfA by projectmoon@fosstodon.org
2022-05-03T21:45:11Z
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@realcaseyrollins @genmaicha Have you read this opinion? It explicitly calls out the case that legalized gay marriage. Also one the one that guarantees access to contraception. So according to at least one court Justice (and probably more than one) they can definitely use the same logic to remove other rights.
(DIR) Post #AJ5WS7Iw95g46TMevo by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T21:49:52Z
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@jiminfantino I see. A new amendment is definitely in order then.
(DIR) Post #AJ5WtpAVAVjfxodBIm by projectmoon@fosstodon.org
2022-05-03T21:54:52Z
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@realcaseyrollins @genmaicha A fetus must have a unique set of DNA. That's how reproduction works. What is more important is that important parts like the brain and nervous system develop later. In the beginning, the zygote is only small group of cells.Banning abortion is exactly like the War on Drugs. It will lead to intense persecution. The laws already on the books are straight up insane. Bounty hunting? No exceptions for rape or mortal danger? That's not pro-life. It's pro-suffering.
(DIR) Post #AJ5XOwg5IaB2ENF8qG by jiminfantino@mastodon.social
2022-05-03T22:00:09Z
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@realcaseyrollins If the goal is to have less abortions, an amendment and a law will not do it. Education and social system work better. Abortions used to be illegal and women had them anyway, only some of them died in the process. Some of these women were victims of rape, or already had children who lost a mother when sepsis took her in an alley. So, I don't share your view of an amendment to say citizenship begins at conception. All it does is take away equal protection away from women.
(DIR) Post #AJ5YL8pOHbQoi3LWGO by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-05-03T22:11:01Z
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@projectmoon @genmaicha I didn't know that. I've only read the summaries, I haven't seen the whole thing. Between having both finals and a life, I doubt I have enough time to examine the raw text in depth, although I eventually plan to.I did find this #MSNBC article, which while not exactly corroborate what you're saying, does indeed say he's using logic that could be used to remove the right to gay marriagehttps://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/alitos-draft-ruling-matters-marriage-equality-rcna27070