Post AJ1COTbAXVuwND2VTU by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
(DIR) More posts by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
(DIR) Post #AJ19PWPfGGDxWsSu1Y by evelyn@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-05-01T19:12:49.582Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
idk I feel like the watershed moment will be when there's an instance run for profit using closed source software. Is there already? I don't know, but how we react to that will be the pivotal moment
(DIR) Post #AJ19QxRWFZadeP18ls by shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-05-01T19:13:04.323Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@evelyn gab was kind of that
(DIR) Post #AJ1A8a2Ycbt1oJ8tua by dhfir@expired.mentality.rip
2022-05-01T19:20:59.439929Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shibao @evelyn I mean, they were kind of open source?but I think we reacted admirably to that.
(DIR) Post #AJ1AHijLgIQHMvW4Bs by evelyn@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-05-01T19:22:38.803Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
okay, since people have brought up gab, truth dot social, and counter social, I should make clear that I don't mean these, since they don't federate because they're cowards, but also since they're using fedi software which forces them to publish the source code whether they like it or not (and in each case, they eventually conceded and published the source code). I mean that eventually there'll be a company which develops a proprietary closed platform which uses AP and federates.
(DIR) Post #AJ1AJZTN4WyPEfvQki by shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-05-01T19:22:58.283Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@evelyn well gab did until they were bullied into not federating
(DIR) Post #AJ1AQHPsbTMPGJUW48 by evelyn@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-05-01T19:24:11.124Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shibao yeah, that was kinda funny to me, but considering torba's idea of free speech has a million daggers and asterisks, that wasn't too surprising an outcome tbh lol
(DIR) Post #AJ1COTbAXVuwND2VTU by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
2022-05-01T19:46:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@evelyn @shibao what's your idea of free speech?
(DIR) Post #AJ1CVmVqcDpF3t29ZY by evelyn@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-05-01T19:47:33.946Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika@berserker.town @shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev Torba's excludes pornography, which to me is a very weird idea.
(DIR) Post #AJ1CdGI4IiVJRW9hVw by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
2022-05-01T19:48:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@evelyn @shibao What does yours exclude, if anything?
(DIR) Post #AJ1Cm9wtFRYINgUa8m by evelyn@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-05-01T19:50:32.999Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika@berserker.town @shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev I don't know tbh, 'free speech' is very nebulous and in some ways I think it misses the point
(DIR) Post #AJ1CssopKrsPHQvWy0 by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
2022-05-01T19:51:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@evelyn @shibao Can you elaborate?
(DIR) Post #AJ1DLAPdW3vFxEdBDc by a1ba@expired.mentality.rip
2022-05-01T19:56:52.254508Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dhfir @shibao @evelyn it's more like "fuck off" kind of opensource, when the sources are released, but it's a bunch of archives with no documentation, edit history, etc...
(DIR) Post #AJ1E3yjBo2CakL91NY by evelyn@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-05-01T20:04:58.127Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Hyolobrika@berserker.town @shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev So, in practice speech is always limited in some way, either by law or because there's some other consequence, but people never quite agree on where the line ought to be - if you make clear and credible threats for example, a lot of people don't think this should be treated as free speech, similarly if you told a lie knowing that it put someone in mortal danger, again many people would believe it wasn't free speech, but then from there on you can get into more difficult areas - if you constantly bullied and taunted someone, is that free speech? if rhetoric made it more difficult for someone to participate equally in society, what then? What if you said something you believed to be untrue for your own advantage, e.g. false advertising?"Free speech" is, in some sense, everything to everyone, everyone believes in their version of it, and almost everyone believes it has some sort of limit, but no-one seems to agree on what it is. I think the trouble too is that we live in societies where this question comes up more and more because online platforms shove everyone into the same space with very little control over who they talk to, and people fight over what exact level of speech the monolith should allow.So, again, I think that meaningful free association is the more important question online, because then everyone can have their own version of "free speech" limits enforced, without feeling that they themselves have been prevented from speaking.
(DIR) Post #AJ1EOA3fOEu7g7LXTk by evelyn@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-05-01T20:08:37.452Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Hyolobrika@berserker.town @shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev To put this even more shortly, I think that for the maximum potential of free expression online, it's a function of architecture above all else - the monolith isn't just inherently useful for surveillance, but also for censorship
(DIR) Post #AJ1G8G1bdbT1SVvWjo by bergamlaimerin@muenchen.social
2022-05-01T20:24:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@evelyn So what - if they behave, they will be federated by some or most instances. If they don't behave - not. If I read correctly, the right wing/hate speech or whatever nasty instances are not federated because *the federation admins* did not like to include such behaviour.And: Why should someone become a member at a new for profit closed software instance?It might be something else if one of the big closed commercial platforms open themselves to the federation protocols.
(DIR) Post #AJ1G8GcTQWxRIrAyCe by evelyn@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-05-01T20:28:09.511Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bergamlaimerin@muenchen.social Many new users do not fundamentally care about freedoms or about open systems, and will use whatever is most convenient to them. The reason for people to object to a reduction in user freedom is obvious. So, the reaction to such a development would be interesting.