Post AIxGPHghvmtmuIQmtU by shadowfacts@social.shadowfacts.net
(DIR) More posts by shadowfacts@social.shadowfacts.net
(DIR) Post #AIxGPHghvmtmuIQmtU by shadowfacts@social.shadowfacts.net
2022-04-29T22:12:21.273625Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
There was an article (or maybe an excerpt of a book?) I saw some years ago that described what software engineering looked like for the Space Shuttle computers. The gist of it was that one team of engineers would work out in exhaustive detail exactly how the software needed to, then a second group would input it into computers, and a third would verify it. And if anyone in the second group noticed something was overlooked, they couldn't fix it themselves but had to go back to the first group to figure out how to fix it/what else it affects.Does anyone happen to know what I'm talking about and have a link?
(DIR) Post #AIxIKhorXykWPfBqXQ by gabek@fosstodon.org
2022-04-29T22:21:40Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@shadowfacts I think I know what you're talking about. What I remember was an article about the emphasis on process in NASA engineering. The meetings, paperwork, etc. But I'm not sure how I'd track that down.
(DIR) Post #AIxIe0EPJdpD1EL8Ou by chucker@mastodon.social
2022-04-29T22:26:38Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@gabek @shadowfacts might be related to the V-model https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-Model
(DIR) Post #AIxIeqlryTUNy4OamG by shadowfacts@social.shadowfacts.net
2022-04-29T22:37:35.774390Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@chucker @gabek that seems kinda like it
(DIR) Post #AIxK4ByAOdp8uInNEe by shadowfacts@social.shadowfacts.net
2022-04-29T22:53:22.582748Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
The diagrams in this report basically describe what I'm remembering: https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/2222/chapter/5The thing I vaguely remember reading was basically a webpage of unstyled html (it might have been an account of someone working in the program?) so it seems entirely possible that it's just dropped off the internet since
(DIR) Post #AIxKVIhHUW8baip7nU by shadowfacts@social.shadowfacts.net
2022-04-29T22:58:16.129502Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
The point is that occasionally I'll be talking to someone who's not a programmer, and doesn't have the same "all software is bad" attitude, about like self-driving cars, or whether software engineering is real engineering (yes, but), and I'll want to point to something like this to support my point that the _vast_ majority of software development is nowhere near rigorous or formal enough to bet people's lives on.
(DIR) Post #AIxRVUpv3aRMv5u8h6 by tewha@appdot.net
2022-04-29T23:42:16Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@shadowfacts Self driving is going to be frustrating, because it’s entirely possible fewer lives will be lost almost immediately. But different people will be killed, and how do you justify those extra deaths even if the total is lower? …
(DIR) Post #AIxRVWmRpSqswuIOYq by tewha@appdot.net
2022-04-29T23:43:05Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@shadowfacts And I know I’m avoiding your point about software quality, which is also totally true!
(DIR) Post #AIxRf9ZexqLjs7u70q by shadowfacts@social.shadowfacts.net
2022-04-30T00:18:29.305527Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tewha trolley problem except it's a bunch of undecipherable matrix math pulling the lever
(DIR) Post #AIxardKj2sdfEMwcK0 by jwisser@wandering.shop
2022-04-30T01:55:02Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@shadowfacts You're thinking of this article. https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff
(DIR) Post #AIxasQqewwIWnbGJOq by shadowfacts@social.shadowfacts.net
2022-04-30T02:01:45.341654Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jwisser YES, that's exactly it, thank you!
(DIR) Post #AIxb1B4YyNSyTfw4Js by jwisser@wandering.shop
2022-04-30T02:02:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shadowfacts I was so impressed by it the first time I read it that I saved it permanently to Instapaper because I knew I would want it again.
(DIR) Post #AIxb1BloNa3qdoAbjM by shadowfacts@social.shadowfacts.net
2022-04-30T02:03:18.786587Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jwisser wish I'd had that foresight the first time I read it
(DIR) Post #AIycL6hHFFc7oL4RWa by buzz@andersen.social
2022-04-30T04:00:56Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@shadowfacts I remember the same article! I believe it was this 1996 Fast Company piece. https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff
(DIR) Post #AIycLuH6uoONZfDFgG by shadowfacts@social.shadowfacts.net
2022-04-30T13:52:58.866782Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@buzz indeed, that's exactly it!
(DIR) Post #AIycULIyInddit6cgy by tewha@appdot.net
2022-04-30T04:15:12Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@shadowfacts Well, and sometimes it’s not going to even be a decision as much as failing to observe some thing or reacting poorly.Like a self driving car turning a corner, missing some cues, follow the wrong line and run down two people in a bike lane. On the other hand, the same model might perform a perfect swerve with inhuman reflexes when someone steps our a blind spot.Even if it’s better (not a given), it’s gonna be different.
(DIR) Post #AJ19yZgp4Q6jpMCmxM by Gtmlosangeles@kolektiva.social
2022-05-01T19:08:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shadowfacts I believe that the vast majority of engineering is nowhere near rigorous or formal enough to get people’s lives on. Not because of any failing by the engineers themselves, but because of the values imposed by the economic system within which they work.
(DIR) Post #AJ19yaBJF4UhLuT8TY by shadowfacts@social.shadowfacts.net
2022-05-01T19:19:09.136907Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gtmlosangeles oh, absolutely. I don't think software engineers are inherently bad, but that we don't have adequate systems/safeguards in place to mitigate the risk in the same we do (generally) for, say, structural engineers, or aviation