Post AIr0h3caCjpGHICAFM by hubert@social.uhoreg.ca
(DIR) More posts by hubert@social.uhoreg.ca
(DIR) Post #AIpbi3Km499dfGHcqu by aurynn@cloudisland.nz
2022-04-26T05:19:41Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
Rather annoyed at the way "let's not use Twitter" has turned into "but admins can read my DMs!"
(DIR) Post #AIpbi43RO4sptnBITQ by aurynn@cloudisland.nz
2022-04-26T05:24:57Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
We want decentralised indie systems, but refuse to trust anyone but a corporation with a mandatory arbitration clause in the TOS.
(DIR) Post #AIpbi4f18MwPmKlJ2m by mattcen@aus.social
2022-04-26T05:29:38Z
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@aurynn Right? I'm quite perplexed by people's (almost entirely flawed) arguments. But also: there are plenty of other platforms to which people could link in their bio if they wish, as I've done with Matrix (where admins *can't* read my DMs). Sigh.
(DIR) Post #AIpbi5Se9qdkGFywOu by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-26T05:33:07Z
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@mattcen @aurynn I hear your frustration. I guess it's the perennial problem of newcomers approaching volunteer-run (and often volunteer-funded) free code projects and community hosts with a customer mindset, ie expecting flawless UX and expecting that said volunteers will provide them with customer service :/
(DIR) Post #AIpbuF3uHsrdVsCpWK by aurynn@cloudisland.nz
2022-04-26T05:35:23Z
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@strypey @mattcen expecting flawless UX and being expected to meet ridiculous, moving goalposts, is quite frustrating.It can improve, and has been improving. But they'll move the goalposts again.
(DIR) Post #AIpc81AUjzZ8Tbr9M0 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-26T05:37:53Z
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It would be great if ActivityPub included a standard for DMs (Direct Messages) that are E2EE (End-to-End Encrypted) and all the fediverse projects implemented it. Maybe one day that will be achieved. In the meantime, as @aurynn says, your instance admin is probably more trustworthy than a datafarming corporation, as well as being too busy to read your DMs. And as @mattcen pointed out, there are other decentralized platforms for E2EE DMs (matrix, XMPP+OMEMO etc)#fediverse #E2EE #matrix #XMPP
(DIR) Post #AIpcm4poWoyLQnHhz6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-26T05:45:05Z
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@aurynn > [UX] can improve, and has been improving. But they'll move the goalposts again.Indeed. It all depends what people are comparing it with. Part of the problem is probably evangelists promising the earth in a well-meaning attempt to encourage people to migrate to more ethical/ decentralized platforms ('it's just like Twitter but better!). Guilty-as-charged on this myself. These days I do try to give people a more realistic idea of the pros and cons of the tech I'm promoting.@mattcen
(DIR) Post #AIphVYWpNFWuNALTd2 by Unairedspecifics@linuxrocks.online
2022-04-26T06:38:03Z
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@strypey Possibly with the MLS standard (Message Layer Security) could be used for such things.Heard #matrix might be moving in that direction in the future from MEG/OLM.So might be usefull as a defacto message encryption for all/more message based platform.@aurynn @mattcen
(DIR) Post #AIpmtVwF9fPP3oTdJo by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-26T07:38:25Z
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@Unairedspecifics Thanks for reminding me of MLS. I first came across it in discussions about federating Wire - their devs have been part of the working group on MLS. Would be great if people using Wire, matrix, and fediverse apps could all send each other encrypted DMs. I can't see any reason MLS couldn't be added to XMPP too via an XEP.@aurynn @mattcen
(DIR) Post #AIpnAZmw5ubnvKG8hM by aurynn@cloudisland.nz
2022-04-26T06:38:56Z
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@Unairedspecifics @strypey @mattcen e2ee is being added to Mastodon, there's a lot of UX that needs to be worked out before it's really useful
(DIR) Post #AIpnAaZ9CfAoKqodqS by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-26T07:41:22Z
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@aurynn > e2ee is being added to MastodonDo you know if this will be a Mastodon-only thing, or compatible with the rest of the fediverse? ie is something being added to AP to define it, or some other existing open standard used?@Unairedspecifics @mattcen
(DIR) Post #AIqv6Z6Dhvi5Q5pzM0 by aurynn@cloudisland.nz
2022-04-26T20:16:58Z
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@onepict I don’t want to look at DMs, and I consider it to be a massive breach of trust of my users if I do. I’d like e2ee to land, so it’s less of a stressor for everyone.
(DIR) Post #AIqxdGZBpgMlPF6nmy by aurynn@cloudisland.nz
2022-04-26T21:13:23Z
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@strypey @mattcen This is why Cloud Island is a paid service - by making it paid I can provide customer service and offer more support than I could otherwise. And my users agree that that's valuable.
(DIR) Post #AIr0h3caCjpGHICAFM by hubert@social.uhoreg.ca
2022-04-26T21:43:57Z
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Note that even if Wire, Matrix, XMPP, etc. all use MLS, they still won't be able to communicate with each other unless the payload formats are the same.
(DIR) Post #AIrWKyiOxhFHDxQsXg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-27T03:42:22Z
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@aurynn Ah OK, I didn't know that. So is your aim to make it a sustainable business, or just make sure it covers its own costs? Can I ask some nosy questions about how you structure things? Private company, co-op company, not-for-profit? Social enterprise? That sort of thing.@mattcen
(DIR) Post #AIrWbNDNdliNqFjxsu by aurynn@cloudisland.nz
2022-04-27T03:44:14Z
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@strypey @mattcen It's a private enterprise (mine, that I own), and my goal is to ensure it covers its own costs and eventually can pay for people to do things like community manage and code on the project.
(DIR) Post #AIrWpaKFgvgcYgjOPQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-27T03:45:31Z
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@hubert I may be showing my ignorance here, but I'm assuming they would all be able to exchange text messages as a baseline. Can you expand on what you mean by payload formats? @Unairedspecifics @mattcen @aurynn
(DIR) Post #AIrkTu7mnVeux2SLuy by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-27T06:20:51Z
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@aurynn That's great, thanks for sharing those details. I strongly believe that decentralized networks can never go mainstream unless the people running instances do exactly what you're doing, and find a sustainable way to make them pay for themselves. Whether that's a private business like yours, a member-owned co-op like social.coop a member-funded association like NZOSS who host the instance I'm on, or some other model.@mattcen
(DIR) Post #AIsMnyueV9KvqqJVfk by hubert@social.uhoreg.ca
2022-04-27T13:26:46Z
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By payload format, I mean how the messages are encoded before they're encrypted. In unencrypted chats, you can have a server-side bridge/transport that can convert messages from one format to another, so although Matrix uses JSON and XMPP use XML, I can use my Matrix account to join an XMPP chat via a bridge, and my Matrix account will see JSON, and XMPP folks will see XML. But with end-to-end encrypted messages, you can't have something server-side that transforms the encrypted data; whatever the sender sends is what the receiver will see. So if an XMPP user sends a message encrypted with MLS, my Matrix client might be able to decrypt the message, but then it will find that it contains XML, which it doesn't know what to do with.
(DIR) Post #AItZV9kfTHkoWmxPf6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-28T03:27:04Z
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@hubert Ah, OK, that makes sense. Thanks for the explainer. The devil is in the details, eh? ;)@Unairedspecifics @mattcen @aurynn
(DIR) Post #AItyx69ovTw6LJ8uLw by Unairedspecifics@linuxrocks.online
2022-04-27T04:55:23Z
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@strypey The encryption payload would be a book.But it could be written in English,Norwegian,Togalog, Sanskrit....Then it could also be written right to left, left to right upsides and downsides, even diagonally.Continuing it could be a Scientific Journal, Someones Journal, book of tax law, how to knit a scarf...or in the context of encryption you'd have a random looking pattern where you'd need a key to rewrite it in a readable format and then we'd need to know how the key is used.
(DIR) Post #AIuEYQYzWDZVeqAr44 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-28T11:07:12Z
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@Unairedspecifics That's a great metaphor, thanks.