Post AIWCRV6N6CU1kUbSoy by kevin@mastodon.1in1.net
(DIR) More posts by kevin@mastodon.1in1.net
(DIR) Post #AIWALmOhgJ8ZkEK2FM by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T20:27:09Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
Soooo what do we think about #Groups coming to #Mastodon then, folks?
(DIR) Post #AIWAWbp9KjzK8Yr87s by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-04-16T20:28:46Z
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@kev Which implementation?
(DIR) Post #AIWAaEpclD3hzBoBbU by Mawoka@mastodon.online
2022-04-16T20:28:54Z
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@kevWhy not?
(DIR) Post #AIWAdXqmVQn9q8vVMu by Danbert8@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T20:29:33Z
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@kev yes please. I'd like to move groups off of Facebook to an independent platform. Would be good to drop Discord too, but that might be a bigger hurdle, especially with the video chatting features.
(DIR) Post #AIWAhFSynaPlyvYkCW by Sulairris@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T20:29:41Z
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@kev Gives me a Google+ feeling, hopefully it'll be more thought out
(DIR) Post #AIWAiyGbiX5zDXasGu by joel@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T20:30:17Z
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@kev I love this, I want it now
(DIR) Post #AIWAm6nyQf3aZChGDI by Sulairris@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T20:31:38Z
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@kev Gives me a Google+ feeling, hopefully it'll be more thought out
(DIR) Post #AIWAu8U04gz05TBLDk by proactiveservices@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T20:33:24Z
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@kev I mean, hashtags already help us do something similar. I guess the private and moderation features will help any such groups which people think need some management.
(DIR) Post #AIWBELFoIl8vUJBCYy by dublinux@mastodon.technology
2022-04-16T20:37:03Z
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@kev Rumour has it Gargron is lukewarm on the idea of Groups so I wouldn't be surprised if this keeps getting pushed back.
(DIR) Post #AIWCOPVZRIYbX2usRU by nebunez@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T20:49:56Z
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@kevI think it's a great idea.
(DIR) Post #AIWCRV6N6CU1kUbSoy by kevin@mastodon.1in1.net
2022-04-16T20:49:58Z
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@kev Would be a fun way to manage shared projects, so you could have a group for a software project or a blog or something, where multiple people are allowed to post
(DIR) Post #AIWD6dJJU40754Go1Q by fedops@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T20:58:01Z
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@kev that would be a great addition.
(DIR) Post #AIWDUjzUIZRekVUaB6 by rudolf@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T21:02:18Z
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@kev I see one big mess waiting to happen. Who will moderate, how will you enforce things like English only.In Telegram, groups lead to much trouble as they are used for bad stuff.Fosstodon has a focus on FOSS with some private stuff. Keeping things simple helps keeping Fosstodon clean. If anti capitalist, religious, data miners, ransomware tailors, and so on can all have their groups it won't be cozy anymore.
(DIR) Post #AIWE1oHnLkABcvp9KC by zeab@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T21:08:25Z
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@kev that's interesting. I was thinking instances were what's identified as "groups" in other social networks. Then what would be the distinction of instances after introduction of groups?
(DIR) Post #AIWEYu9wX993OnvqyW by ascott@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T21:14:21Z
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@kev I'm ambivalent, it could be useful though. It might take some pressure off new users (and encourage retention) if there are other ways to join distinct communities without switching servers. When I first tried mastodon on a bigger instance I remember thinking search and the federated timeline were pretty useless. Search is deliberately limited, most people don't use hash tags, and the federated timeline can range from totally irrelevant to flat out offensive.
(DIR) Post #AIWF79JagxJOFVm2G8 by AndyGER@mastodon.social
2022-04-16T21:20:35Z
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@kev I am concerned. Private groups can be used for bad things. Look at Telegram …
(DIR) Post #AIWFcpxYBsFZUBZgDQ by publiclewdness@linuxrocks.online
2022-04-16T21:26:15Z
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@kev Can't say I care either way.
(DIR) Post #AIWFiGIlg6rqdI5Mw4 by NityaStriker@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T21:27:07Z
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@kev How would private group moderation work ? Would each server owner whose server has a member that has access to a group also have access to that group ? Can they ban their server’s members from that group ?
(DIR) Post #AIWFkqzAG9qkz79UES by TerryHancock@mastodon.art
2022-04-16T21:27:47Z
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@kev Seems useful. Not sure how it would play out in practice.
(DIR) Post #AIWFnR6Swgl9a5nZpI by NityaStriker@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T21:28:15Z
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@kev How would private group moderation work? Would each server owner whose server has a member that has access to a group also have access to that group? Can they ban their server’s members from that group?
(DIR) Post #AIWGuNNFJFiZzoWKMS by bit_tyrant_resistor@freeradical.zone
2022-04-16T21:40:40Z
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@kev I like it. I was trying to figure out which protocol would best fit a server I plan to setup for a CSA community in my area to connect farmers with consumers. The groups feature would be great to help neighbors coordinate pickups.
(DIR) Post #AIWJ0y8fjO9jfMyWI4 by MightyOwlbear@mastodon.social
2022-04-16T22:04:19Z
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@kev I look forward to hanging out with about 12 other people interested in a specific subset of weird computer computer games.
(DIR) Post #AIWPYE3SB1PYJFm8WG by moddedBear@fosstodon.org
2022-04-16T23:17:27Z
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@kev I'm excited and would definitely make use of them.
(DIR) Post #AIWT0We0xCxtw33w48 by andrewmacleod@social.librem.one
2022-04-16T23:55:57Z
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@kev I think the next bullet point in that slide is more concerning. These filters, are they applied by individual users or at the server/instance level? This is the type of control each user should have lest we end up with just another centralised Facebook like BS
(DIR) Post #AIWU9V0qURdBR1aIWe by steve@convoglio.social
2022-04-17T00:09:00Z
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@kev Not sure of the implications. What do you think?
(DIR) Post #AIWWX7Xvaa3HVtRwhs by chris@mastodon.chriswiegman.com
2022-04-17T00:35:46Z
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@kev I can’t say I would use them any more than I use Twitter communities but… why not. If people would use them I think it’s a worthy feature.
(DIR) Post #AIWXwr2TgXFPngZdwm by seb@ioc.exchange
2022-04-17T00:51:43Z
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@kev @mike Private Groups will attract topics and folks that exist on the fringes of legality.
(DIR) Post #AIWY4g9g2EBWMSfk0G by Tay0@fosstodon.org
2022-04-17T00:52:50Z
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@kevI would love to start a #3Dprinting group. And a homemade keyboard group. And a ...😂
(DIR) Post #AIWYRplCUNqsoOGTDc by tchambers@indieweb.social
2022-04-17T00:56:33Z
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@seb @kev @mike agreed - groups in the Fediverse should work like Twitter communities - posts there do not appear in anyones public feeds but ALL groups are searchable….
(DIR) Post #AIWaAD0TWLhhbZ8I8u by nixer@fosstodon.org
2022-04-17T01:16:18Z
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@kev could be interesting. But it seems that separate instances are sort of groups themselves. Almost all have some sort of theme.
(DIR) Post #AIWn1LfPFg8HGINpR2 by underlap@fosstodon.org
2022-04-17T03:40:31Z
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@kev Sounds interesting, but it does raise some questions. Would each group have its own CoC? Or would each member of a group be subject to their own instance's CoC for their posts to the group? The latter doesn't really work as there may be insufficient members of a group from the same instance to police each other's behaviour.If each group has its own CoC, would it also need its own moderators?On a +ve note, groups would enable me to join multiple "communities" with a single id/instance.
(DIR) Post #AIWnoTdyNmrkBv8h5k by clay@quanta.wiki
2022-04-17T03:49:26.067701Z
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@kev@fosstodon.org @underlap@fosstodon.org This is why we need fully 'decentralized' Social Media, where the only "moderation" that exists is one person blocking another person. Why should I have some unelected and unwanted "moderator" getting in between myself and my followers, deciding which of us can say what to whom? Federated design is better than "centralized" but it's still pretty horrible for censorship. All the Overlords are Woke. It's not good.
(DIR) Post #AIWooqw5sm44NwMGi8 by underlap@fosstodon.org
2022-04-17T03:55:32Z
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@clay @kev I think per-instance CoCs are genius for setting the tone on an instance and giving me some idea of what to expect before I join it. But I take your point about censorship, which could be abused if moderators stray outside the CoC.
(DIR) Post #AIWoorfp8ke0flkmzQ by clay@quanta.wiki
2022-04-17T04:00:42.872467Z
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@kev@fosstodon.org @underlap@fosstodon.org Well I was kicked off fosstodon by Kev himself for saying (very politely I might add) that biological males should stay out of women's sports. Somehow that broke the hate speech CoC even when even Kaitlyn Jenner herself agrees with me. No it's better to get rid of ALL moderators and just have users allowed to block other users. Decentralized not Federated. Federated will always have the Woke Overlords problem.
(DIR) Post #AIWpyHillW2a1BBfLE by underlap@fosstodon.org
2022-04-17T04:10:09Z
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@clay @kev I think the problem you are describing is orthogonal to federation per se. Federation is simply the mechanism for instances to be able to interoperate, like DNS servers.I think your problem is more about moderation and CoCs. It cuts both ways, if you feel a moderator (or admin) is unfair, you might want to switch instances to one with a more free speech CoC or at least different moderators. (Trying not to give my personal opinion of that particular example here!)
(DIR) Post #AIWpyIPfC2LsADFvCS by clay@quanta.wiki
2022-04-17T04:13:37.711392Z
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@kev@fosstodon.org @underlap@fosstodon.org I'm actually a Fediverse Developer. I'm the one who literally wrote every line of code on the server I'm on. I get the technical stuff, and I know why we don't have decentralized Social Media yet, but when we DO finally HAVE it (decentralized), trust me, no one is gonna look back and miss having Overlords.
(DIR) Post #AIWrnjDROsSc0wcy4e by underlap@fosstodon.org
2022-04-17T04:23:42Z
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@clay -Kev as this is becoming a digression from groups.Please could you expand on what you mean by decentralized Social Media and what the topology of users, maybe instances, etc, would be.
(DIR) Post #AIWrnjl7NfOnhONrZA by clay@quanta.wiki
2022-04-17T04:34:07.117841Z
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@underlap@fosstodon.org The principles are very simple: Pure P2P, like what you'd get if the Fediverse was made of only "Single User Instances". Like if your mother (or a 10 year old kid) could setup and run an instance (right now it takes a rocket scientist to setup a new instance).So once everyone is "Their own Admin"... then the power dymanic is REMOVED. You're your only boss. No one is CAPABLE of standing between you and your friends. No one can cancel you. No one has power over you. It's similar to what Bitcoin did for Finance...but in a Free Speech kinda way.
(DIR) Post #AIX2m1yFnVKt6Auuoa by kkostov@mastodon.social
2022-04-17T06:37:01Z
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@kev I’m new to mastodon but it feels like a server’s local timeline is sort of a group. Like the #general channel on slack. So indeed it does make sense to be able to create multiple timelines specific to a topic or a group of people - some public and others private. It should be possible to have mods in order to prevent bad actors from spoiling groups or allow for folks to join and leave without impacting the group. I guess I’m thinking of IIRC channels here.
(DIR) Post #AIX7VkP9q6v5kvYWvo by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-04-17T07:30:06Z
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@kkostov the local timeline is definitely like a group, you got that right. There’s a lot for the dev team to consider when implementing this feature.
(DIR) Post #AIXGEjZqYvwfqzWAka by AHU4y5aWnraB3XHz0a.mxtthxw@mxtthxw.art
2022-04-17T09:07:52Z
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@kev At this point I think I prefer a more minimal social media. A platform I want to spend less time on, not more.Maybe groups would be useful for some? Especially folks who have been reliant on Facebacon/Twitter style bells and whistles.Who knows, I just shit post for minor dopamine hits.
(DIR) Post #AIXIlc9xMTqgJTDLLE by jyrgi66@social.tchncs.de
2022-04-17T09:36:13Z
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@kev @humanetech Groups can have positive and negative effects. A big advantage I see is, that in groups you can discuss sensitive topics that you only want to be visible for a selected audience. Might be overlapping with the functionality that every messenger basically provides, hmmm…
(DIR) Post #AIXJktAgj6jWjrm4Po by mykd@mastodon.social
2022-04-17T09:47:19Z
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@kev What's this from? It looks like an interesting document.As someone who played with Mastodon a few years ago and came back due to recent events I would welcome any tools that help with discovery and curation.I know people can be very dismissive of the algorithm-driven timelines of Facebook Reddit and Twitter, but they can be really helpful in building a strong follow list.
(DIR) Post #AIXMZR5v4jA6Kwm4S8 by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-04-17T10:18:49Z
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@mykd it’s from their 2021 annual report.https://www.patreon.com/posts/mastodon-annual-61911077
(DIR) Post #AIXNgolnY5EvkKRkMC by mykd@mastodon.social
2022-04-17T10:31:24Z
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@kev Thanks. That's a very nice straightforward document. @Gargron seems to be making a great job of managing the transition from small hobbyist project to something much more substantial. I'm glad to see the clear commitment to continuing to improve the new user experience.
(DIR) Post #AIXa0huByo21hJchIO by robinjanssens@mastodon.technology
2022-04-17T12:49:28Z
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@kev could increase discoverability but seems like it would encourage a lot of communication across instances which could get unmanageable if a group gets huge.Something is needed though because it's hard to find interesting people on different instances and many instances don't really feel like they have a sense of community - just people blasting words into the void. This is especially true of more general instances.
(DIR) Post #AIXmZ7n9RKprHLVXlY by underlap@fosstodon.org
2022-04-17T07:52:41Z
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@clay Thanks for the explanation. What you describe sounds like manyverse where the main problem is discovering potential "friends". It seemed to be full of bots and a few real people saying "Hello world! What now?". Unless there is some means of discovery, then this kind of social network depends on people sharing addresses via some other network or IRL.
(DIR) Post #AIXmZ8RuzlRfJma6JE by clay@quanta.wiki
2022-04-17T15:09:57.600086Z
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Right, I agree. "Discovery" is one of the technical problems people point to, whenever the topic of decentralized v.s. federated comes up. There will need to be some kind of central registry or blockchain that maintain's user names, and people's interests & group affiliations.And this central list will have to somehow be "uncensorable"...or else the "wokesters" will try to get control of it so they can start cancelling people based on political ideology.
(DIR) Post #AIbAYuZRZn1oeGPJ68 by pixelherodev@fosstodon.org
2022-04-19T06:23:08Z
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@kev ... why would I ever use that instead of a mailing list???
(DIR) Post #AIgRwLnHCIiIkcRIYq by rlaska@social.librem.one
2022-04-21T19:31:05Z
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@kev I don't understand, isn't that basically what #hashtags are for?