Post AI1xorZPtH2dderF0C by ericireland@aus.social
(DIR) More posts by ericireland@aus.social
(DIR) Post #AHxxvnS0pNJEG0rRHU by Sandra@idiomdrottning.org
2022-03-31T08:15:37.743283Z
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How can the world move over to organic farming sustainably? Reading about the Śrī Laṅkā famine 💔
(DIR) Post #AHxxvo0OlWoZyewtsW by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-03-31T08:27:36Z
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@Sandra We have to define "organic farming" - some claims that using GMO's in farming is not part of "organic farming" - what do you think?
(DIR) Post #AHy1AgjiNF0pdfvwYq by Sandra@idiomdrottning.org
2022-03-31T08:36:30.919806Z
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@selea I oppose some specific applications of GMO, not GMO as a general class.Some of the applications I criticize include seed sterilizations (so farmers need to buy new seeds every year, which is a waste of money and shipping), and glyphosate desensitization (so crops are grown in monocultures and blasted with poison).Generally, I wanna solve the Earth's problems, not argue semantics and set theory ♥
(DIR) Post #AHy1AhCmdAGT5pX9s0 by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-03-31T09:03:59Z
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@Sandra No I did not want you to take it as criticism of some sort! Because it was'nt! :)I totally agree with your sentiment, and I think that GMO's (good ethical ones) are one big part of switching to a more sustainable farming and sustainable food.But thats my "killgissning" ;)
(DIR) Post #AHy4S2dyTXsEMwDO2i by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-03-31T09:40:45Z
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@selea There's nothing we can do with GM that we can't do with selective breeding, except call a plant an "invention". So GM and patents are to plants what proprietary licensing and copyright are to software. The only reason to do either is to turn public goods into private property. @Sandra#GMO #GM #BioTech #patents
(DIR) Post #AI1rimzTPCeVyLlYgq by Sandra@idiomdrottning.org
2022-03-31T09:48:15.181851Z
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@strypey @selea I really hate patents and IP, and I hate the patents aspect of GMO so much that I'll even throw out the GMO baby with the patent bathwater. Proprietarization of the Earth is so blasphemous, it sickens me.It is not a true fact that selection and reinforment in iterative algorithms can recreate all data structures that splicing algorithms can. Many have tried, with mediocre success.
(DIR) Post #AI1rinaLC88voh109g by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-02T05:36:58Z
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@Sandra> I hate the patents aspect of GMO so much that I'll even throw out the GMO baby with the patent bathwater GMOs are a solution in search of a problem. Most GMOs created so far do something undesirable, entrench herbicide use as you mentioned, produce endogenous pesticides (BT corn) etc. The rest do something that can done in less risky ways, like vitamin A rice, which entrenches monocrop rice production instead of interplanting of vitamin A rich herbs.@selea
(DIR) Post #AI1xorZPtH2dderF0C by ericireland@aus.social
2022-04-02T06:45:06Z
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@strypey @Sandra @selea I think biotechnology has a long way to go but eventually there will be C4 rice and other crops with much higher yield, higher water use efficiency and higher nutrient use efficiency
(DIR) Post #AI25KWverwTYZCJATA by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2022-04-01T21:12:01.023566Z
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@Sandra @selea seed sterilizations (so farmers need to buy new seeds every year, which is a waste of money and shipping),Is it an actual practice at all (no idea), and if yes, is it exclusive to GMO seeds? Because if seeds are sterilised, how do they grow at all?
(DIR) Post #AI25KXTgpPhKGkELVw by Sandra@idiomdrottning.org
2022-04-02T05:08:46.524712Z
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@kravietz @selea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology
(DIR) Post #AI25KYFtwAGKgGmqf2 by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2022-04-02T06:12:56.374996Z
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@SandraThat's what I suspected you are referring to — but "terminator gene" was one patent that was never actually rolled out into any seeds, and the place where it kind of exists are Greenpeace scare stories ;)@selea
(DIR) Post #AI25KYmA0E4CIJsbwW by Sandra@idiomdrottning.org
2022-04-02T06:55:34.388225Z
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@kravietz It existed in labs but wasn't sold. Thank G-d.So to summarize the convo so far:@selea: Are you opposed to GMOs?Me: I am opposed to some specific applications of it. Maybe some good ideas can be invented (cheaper insulin synthetization?) but so far I haven't seen them.selea: OK, me too.Other people: It's unthinkable that GMO could ever be used for anything useful ever.Yet other people: Some of the applications you oppose haven't been rolled out commercially.Right… I was told that the reason GURT seeds have not been commercialized anywhere in the world was due to opposition from farmers, consumers, indigenous peoples, NGOs, and some governments. To the extent that that's true, that's a case for opposition to the tech, not a case against opposition to it. (I mean, GURT seeds can help with crop rotation, which is good, but our position is that co-growing / non-monoculture is better.)I am horrified by the Śrī Laṅkā famine and I feel guilty for being such a proponent of organics for decades. I wanna come up with ways we can make the world sustain its population and itself long-term, and synth ferts have been a problem in the regard. Turns out rugpulling the synth ferts was disastrous and I am curious how we can make the change less disruptively.Capitalism's externalities "memory leak" bug caused this (by hiding the costs of synth ferts while directly exposing the costs of organics); how can humanity as a whole (across the political spectrum) fix this?
(DIR) Post #AI25KZH09YjjpyJF0y by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-04-02T08:09:21Z
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@Sandra Oh, I did not ask about if you where opposed to GMOs, my question was more like a rethorical one - GMOs is one big part of the solution to world hunger, and most likely the solution to a transition to organic farming.
(DIR) Post #AI25NulIiOy9Lt4rTs by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-04-02T08:09:45Z
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@Sandra Sorry if I made it unclear :)
(DIR) Post #AI7lFRXTGdeUxNhWka by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-05T01:52:39Z
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@ericireland Such rose-tinted predictions are easy to make. I imagine similar ones were made for fossil fuels and plastics. There have indeed been some benefits realized, but it's now very clear that they're heavily outweighed by the costs. What makes you think genetic engineering will be any different? @Sandra @selea
(DIR) Post #AI7lzLGstzQaq5pT1M by Sandra@idiomdrottning.org
2022-04-02T05:45:16.147301Z
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@strypey @selea There are no vitamin A rich herbs. Only carotenoids, which some people have a mutation that makes their conversion rate (via provitamins) significantly lower so they suffer bad health on plant-based diets. (Although "Golden Rice" has the same problem (also relying on a carotenoid, β-carotene in that case, just like carrots) while also having the inherent methane producing microbes that makes rice such a CAGW threat.)That's not a counter-argument to your main point which seems to be to… agree with me that there are plenty of specific applications of GMO that are bad…? Which is what I was saying in the first place.
(DIR) Post #AI7lzMLWuCjoAn0gts by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-05T02:01:02Z
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@SandraI'm using "herbs" in the plant biology sense of the word, not the culinary or medicinal sense. This page lists a number of leafy greens that can provide the precursor for the body to make its own vitamin A, among other plant sources:https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods-high-in-vitamin-aAs you say, anyone who can't get A through these foods will not be helped by Golden Rice (TM). Again, mixed farming is the actual solution here, not fortified monocrops. @selea
(DIR) Post #AI7vg9m2QNe7DgtKAy by ericireland@aus.social
2022-04-05T03:49:33Z
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@strypey @Sandra @selea No one knows what the costs will be if unless you're talking about something specific.. You would have to assess each organism on a case-by case basis. I don't see any intrinsic risk with genetic engineering. Microbiologists insert genes into E.coli all the time to make more copies of them.
(DIR) Post #AI8ILik3W75uXHBkLQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-04-05T08:03:25Z
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@ericireland> I don't see any intrinsic risk with genetic engineeringThere's a substantial literature about these risks, a sample of which is cited here:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1392248/ @selea
(DIR) Post #AI8TwhsAoHSe3CpAKu by ericireland@aus.social
2022-04-05T10:13:29Z
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@strypey @selea I’m not saying that there are no risks in any genetically modified foods, I’m just saying that not all modifications have significant risks.. e.g. genetically engineered microbes have been used to make “non animal rennet” for 30 years without any problem. To give a non-food related example, there is some risk involved in gain of function research in pathogens and some people are opposed to it, but there’s virtually no risk in using E.coli for molecular cloning and no one is bothered by it. They’re both genetic engineering.