Post AHNu6sC9htuodKCeOG by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
(DIR) More posts by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
(DIR) Post #AHNcBJl1NHWs6FTs9o by be@fosstodon.org
2022-03-13T19:00:35Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
C++ modules seem to be collapsing under the weight of their own complexityhttps://gitlab.kitware.com/cmake/cmake/-/issues/18355
(DIR) Post #AHNcFeblnGxpvSDmaG by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2022-03-13T19:35:22.493687Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@be As expected of anything C++ to be honest.
(DIR) Post #AHNlVzaaSDGLDYX90a by be@fosstodon.org
2022-03-13T21:16:35Z
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@lanodan This looks especially bad though... the standard is years old now and nobody has a fully functioning implementation??
(DIR) Post #AHNlW0A2KPcQzV7SGO by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2022-03-13T21:19:10.469016Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@be *IETF voice* Then it's not a standard.
(DIR) Post #AHNljzniSnVzvdLsyu by be@fosstodon.org
2022-03-13T21:20:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan From that discussion it seems that nobody has implemented it because the standard has bizarro overcomplications because... someone gives a shit about IBM z/OS????
(DIR) Post #AHNlk0GmiildNmx6I4 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2022-03-13T21:21:42.424708Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@be Why is it always because of some obscure shit in a corner that might as well be considered from a different timeline…
(DIR) Post #AHNmd0aXEmjCIWQ1VA by be@fosstodon.org
2022-03-13T21:21:42Z
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@lanodan Crap like that makes it seem like Rust not supporting exotic architectures is a feature, not a bug.
(DIR) Post #AHNmd19H9cW82GfleS by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2022-03-13T21:31:38.888725Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@be Nah, for Rust I think it's way too reduced.Specially as it was (and apparently still quite a bit) horribly painful to port for operating systems that aren't GNU+Linux like BSDs or Alpine.At least on https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/rustc/platform-support.html never looked great to me.
(DIR) Post #AHNtxeVXE9XpZms3BQ by be@fosstodon.org
2022-03-13T22:03:09Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if C++20 modules literally never get implemented and C++23 has to remove crap to make it remotely reasonable to implement.
(DIR) Post #AHNtz5dlpk0y16PNsO by be@fosstodon.org
2022-03-13T22:05:46Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan 'The C++ standard has no way of talking about "file paths" or "file systems", so specifying that as how modules are to be implemented is problematic as far as the standard is concerned. One thing is that C++ has to contend with non-ASCII-compatible environments (such as z/OS where EBCDIC still rules) where what import module; means requiring a transformation for any lookup on such platforms.'https://gitlab.kitware.com/cmake/cmake/-/issues/18355#note_1150864
(DIR) Post #AHNtz7Rn7FcXcWoqTw by be@fosstodon.org
2022-03-13T22:07:26Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@lanodan 'Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code is an eight-bit character encoding used mainly on IBM mainframe and IBM midrange computer operating systems. It descended from the code used with punched cards and the corresponding six-bit binary-coded decimal code used with most of IBM's computer peripherals of the late 1950s and early 1960s.'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBCDICSo C++ 2020 modules are unimplementable because of backwards compatibility with tech literally from the 1950s?
(DIR) Post #AHNu6sC9htuodKCeOG by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2022-03-13T22:55:29.612523Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@be Imagine having backward compatibility from beyond almost any still living programmer birthday.
(DIR) Post #AHNufJCfnTuQFBri6q by zens@merveilles.town
2022-03-13T22:20:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@be @lanodan ASCII is at least a year older. Or older still if you don’t consider that it’s a standardisation of an encoding that started in the 1890s
(DIR) Post #AHNufJrRLuWEHcwGeW by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2022-03-13T23:01:42.506917Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@zens @be ASCII is also a fairly consistent standard and ended up being the base for the next standards.Like, if you have UTF-8 support, which got "if you don't have it you're from the previous computing era" status, you get ASCII support for free.And pretty much the only other reason why ASCII is still there is because of old network protocols being stuck to ASCII for things like the identifiers.
(DIR) Post #AHNufKwRKo71dQHm5I by zens@merveilles.town
2022-03-13T22:21:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@be @lanodan it’s still silly to require ebcdic compatibility in 2020 but not by virtue of its age