Post AG2DnE41Z4UTCSL904 by vanitasvitae@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by vanitasvitae@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AG1xhOyeTg5o2j1o6y by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-01T11:00:01Z
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Look at all those... *checks notes*... far right extremists protesting vaccine mandates in Germany.
(DIR) Post #AG21UW1rLd3ZxvdhPE by vanitasvitae@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T11:42:29Z
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@jcbrand What do you want to imply?
(DIR) Post #AG2AmmLMKRbhMdXl5c by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-01T13:26:39Z
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@vanitasvitae That photo is from a "Spaziergang" last night.Do they look like far right extremists to you?
(DIR) Post #AG2DnE41Z4UTCSL904 by vanitasvitae@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T14:00:20Z
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@jcbrand this particular photo indeed looks harmless. I could however show you ten that show another reality...
(DIR) Post #AG2DxEL9OOaCx77Zlw by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-01T14:02:10Z
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@vanitasvitae Sure, show me then.I've been to a demo myself and know several people who regularly attend them.Psychologists, a lecturer, an optometrist and others. Normal people.
(DIR) Post #AG2EJXZ8aoWewzIm5A by vanitasvitae@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T14:02:44Z
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@jcbrand also, not every "Spaziergänger" is a far right extremist, but nobody says that. However, the Spaziergänger scene is most certainly infiltrated by far right extremists 🤷♂️
(DIR) Post #AG2EJY6SavBGcKtO1Q by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-01T14:06:12Z
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@vanitasvitae How are you so certain? I'm guessing you heard it on the news somewhere and are now simply repeating it.Also, what does it mean to be infiltrated? Sounds scary.
(DIR) Post #AG2F7fnSGShIxPu5tg by vanitasvitae@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T14:15:15Z
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@jcbrand I don't think it makes any sense to continue this discussion if we cannot agree on the same set of sources. I haven't been to your demonstration and you seem to not trust the media like I do.
(DIR) Post #AG2IhWKfEJeDtLDpC4 by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-02-01T14:22:35Z
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@vanitasvitae @jcbrand If you "trust the media" at all, instead of verifying everything they claim, then you clearly haven't been on the frontline of anything in the last few decades. I've seen them intentionally misreport on protests since I was a teenager in the 90s. Last time of note was a demo in Berlin with a hundred thousand normal people and a couple intentionally placed people with a Prussian flag right in front of a camera crew. I've seen the same kind of theater many times before.
(DIR) Post #AG2IhWmJZVlXH69uIC by vanitasvitae@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T14:24:11Z
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@raucao @jcbrand Sure, you cannot trust everything blindly! But there seems to be a rough consensus across most big media which is probably close-ish to the truth.
(DIR) Post #AG2IhXJdZcQ8wRkWES by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-02-01T14:25:31Z
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@vanitasvitae @jcbrand The "rough consensus" is exactly the narrative. The truth is almost always where a journalist escapes that editorial "consensus".
(DIR) Post #AG2IhXkZxRyII0M2E4 by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-01T14:55:18Z
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@raucao @vanitasvitae Let's do a thought experiment.I guess you care about the right to have E2EE encryption.Suppose the gov and media launch a campaign where they criticise E2EE as a tool that aids pedophiles, criminals, terrorists and nazis. There are plans to ban E2EE.Some people are protesting for the right to use E2EE, but according to most media sources they're infiltrated by nazis. And why won't they be? The Nazis need E2EE to maintain their structures.What do you do?
(DIR) Post #AG2JPDkBhahkyyzxa4 by vanitasvitae@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T15:03:13Z
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@jcbrand @raucao I do not dispute that you care about your rights. And we might agree in some few points where the corona restrictions are pointless or go to far.Still, this does not make my point that many far right activists are abusing these demonstrations for their own purposes less valid.You might not be one of them.Still, some of those idiots even go as far as to murder innocent poeple.
(DIR) Post #AG2Jp7WDTDmnCioTlw by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-01T15:07:32Z
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@vanitasvitae @raucao What is the point of your point?Generally when that point is made in the media, it's to delegitimise the movement and to discourage people from exercising their democratic right to protest.People don't want to be smeared as far right, or as being stooges or "infiltrated" by the far right, so often they'd rather stay at home, which is exactly what the state wants.
(DIR) Post #AG2KHcVbqKDlQX7ReC by vanitasvitae@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T15:13:03Z
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@jcbrand @raucao See, I believe you when you tell me that the people on your picture do not have bad intent and just want to excercise peaceful protest.Still, I wanted to point out that there are many many idiots out there, who reject the vacination out of false fears and instead believe in disinformation. And especially the far right parties are abusing this fear for their purposes.
(DIR) Post #AG2TdChRNf2TL71Hyi by PublicNuisance@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T16:57:48Z
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@vanitasvitae @jcbrand @raucao For me I have zero care as to why people choose to not get the vaccine. It doesn't matter. That they have the choice in the first place is all that matters and mandates take that choice away.
(DIR) Post #AG2WSE52CuO0IYVqka by vanitasvitae@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T17:29:25Z
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@PublicNuisance I'm all in on team freedom!But if I see that my choice endangers those around me, it no longer is my choice, but it becomes my obligation as part of this society.
(DIR) Post #AG2X5YMMk4rmUJN7FA by PublicNuisance@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T17:36:32Z
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@vanitasvitae Not getting a vaccine that doesn't work can hardly be called endangering those around you. The CDC literally had to change the definition of vaccine on their site because these experiments their pushing on people didn't meet the old one as they don't provide immunity. As for soceity I made no such agreement to give up my freedom fo other people's safety and I never will.
(DIR) Post #AG2XOJnX6gdEpM1jYO by PublicNuisance@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T17:39:56Z
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@vanitasvitae Not getting a vaccine that doesn't work can hardly be called endangering those around you. The CDC literally had to change the definition of vaccine on their site because these experiments their pushing on people didn't meet the old one as they don't provide immunity. As for soceity I made no such agreement to give up my freedom for other people's safety and I never will.
(DIR) Post #AG2eL7nNyT82PfNlbM by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-02-01T15:22:47Z
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@vanitasvitae @jcbrand Those "idiots" are still protesting for *everyone's* human and civil rights. You think there's any protest without a bunch of idiots, in the entire history of protests? Idiots are a part of society, and thus any protest including a wide spectrum of society will also include idiots.Your point, however, seems to be that nobody should support the protests, because they reflect society in this way. Do you see the problem with that when considering it from this perspective?
(DIR) Post #AG2eL8Je2Wvu1iTWsq by vanitasvitae@fosstodon.org
2022-02-01T15:28:53Z
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@raucao @jcbrand Okay then, lets simply say I disagree with this movement. In my opinion we are in this epidemic for far too long and those who could but refuse to vacinate themselves are just selfish. I too don't love to take syringes but I chose to do so to protect myself and those around me.Normally I would reject mandatory vacinations, but the current situation shows that no amount of scientific proof is enough to convince a considerable portion of people.
(DIR) Post #AG2eL8m0L5cNRfkB5U by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-01T18:57:47Z
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@vanitasvitae @raucao Sorry but explain to me in detail how the tiny minority of unvaccinated are somehow to blame for the rules that the politicians come up with?Switzerland has a lower vaccination rate and more freedom. Sweden never had lockdowns or mask mandates. Various USA states have lifted all restrictions.Now UK, Ireland and Denmark have lifted all restrictions.Have you noticed how many triple vaxxed people get omicron?The vaxxed also get sick and also infect others
(DIR) Post #AG2eOyZUDB1IxliXcO by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-01T18:58:30Z
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@vanitasvitae @raucao If you "normally" stand for a principle, such as bodily integrity, but don't stand for it under pressure, then you never really stood for it at all.
(DIR) Post #AG2evY6FeXsqQ3ZiUq by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-01T19:04:22Z
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@vanitasvitae @raucao People who stand up and defend freedom not only defend their own freedom, they also defend yours. A lot of the people protesting are parents and have loved-ones who are suffering from the capricious and arbitrary rules. Calling them selfish is a sign of ignorance.You're not meaningfully protecting others with the jab, you're only protecting yourself (which needs to be weighed against the risk of vaccine induced injury).
(DIR) Post #AG2g85wTkmNUoCYAxU by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-01T19:17:51Z
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@vanitasvitae @raucao BTW, the "selfish" people who also protested against lockdowns... looks like they were right after all.At least according to this meta-study from John Hopkins uni.https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf"lockdowns have had little to no public health effects,they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted. Inconsequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policyinstrument."
(DIR) Post #AGZcSNL0I7GxviXM9Y by Supercellol@koyu.space
2022-02-17T16:41:29Z
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@PublicNuisance @vanitasvitae the vaccine might not help enough anymore to justify an obligation to vaccinate atm, but might be the best option when an updated version comes out. If compared to other ways of reducing virus spread in society, it might be the least impactful intrusion into human rights considering its effectivity.
(DIR) Post #AGZd7ZEEzBPAgL11CC by Supercellol@koyu.space
2022-02-17T16:49:35Z
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@jcbrand @vanitasvitae @raucao @vanitasvitae @raucao "If you "normally" stand for a principle, such as bodily integrity, but don't stand for it under pressure, then you never really stood for it at all." That point is really bad imo. We always have to update our opinions when new things happen. If you still dont see enough justification for an obligation to vaccinate atm, thats alright, but just because an other person sees enough peoples rights for living in danger to justify it, that doesnt mean he never was standing for the principle.
(DIR) Post #AGZekVlxrwm7D8vJaa by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-17T17:07:50Z
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@Supercellol @vanitasvitae @raucao I hope you're not implying that unvaccinated people are infringing on other people's right to life because that would be totally ridiculous.Triple vaccinated people are catching COVID all over the place. You're not protecting anyone else if you're vaccinating yourself.
(DIR) Post #AGZfTcM8Et2WezLg92 by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2022-02-17T17:16:01Z
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@Supercellol @vanitasvitae @raucao Every year people die from flu, are you also for a general flu vaccine mandate?
(DIR) Post #AGa0VaUeEX88V372em by Supercellol@koyu.space
2022-02-17T21:11:29Z
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@jcbrand @vanitasvitae @raucao Nah, im saying that people have a human right to live, so the state has to protect them, otherwise the sate gets a fat fucking problem. At least in the german constitution. That Covid is not comparable with the flu is not a real scientific question. The question is, if an obligation for vaccination is a comparative way to protect these endangered people. I would have agreed before Omnicron, now i would deny it, as the vaccination loses effectiveness with every new variant and as omnicron is not as big of a deal as delta, we dont need hard measures to deal with covid.