Post AFLEPscfdvN7X4i7zU by marquiskurt@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by marquiskurt@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AFJL0HlcOOJfaZr9s0 by mike@fosstodon.org
2022-01-10T22:18:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Just listened to the @LateNightLinux predictions episode. I can't remember who made the prediction about #Apple screwing over the Linux community. I know it wasn't @JoeRess. Maybe @degville, @8none1, or @felimwhiteley can refresh my memory. I was surprised that was actually up for debate. It feels more like a gimme point to me. Apple will screw over someone else to make more money, and humans will continue to require oxygen to survive.
(DIR) Post #AFJmZQ7U1iwuON3sie by wswartzendruber@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T03:27:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike Yeah, news at 11.
(DIR) Post #AFJniu7jwQZU0bGfR2 by mjkpolo@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T03:40:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike I’m ignant what happened?
(DIR) Post #AFK5pTG21giBt1QXce by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T07:03:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike I dunno. As Joe said, they actively getting help from folk inside Apple and they would only do it to be spiteful, it would affect their sales and the machine would still need to run MacOS.I don’t see the value in them doing it.@LateNightLinux @JoeRess @degville @8none1 @felimwhiteley
(DIR) Post #AFK5wZMdijRCqvu20e by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T07:04:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike I dunno. As Joe said, they actively getting help from folk inside Apple. Apple’s only reason would to be spiteful, it wouldn’t affect their sales and the machine would still need to run MacOS.I don’t see the value in Apple doing it.@LateNightLinux @JoeRess @degville @8none1 @felimwhiteley
(DIR) Post #AFKnuIieU3lsOVn1lo by mike@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T15:17:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev I disagree. A lot actually. Apple is ALL about control of all aspects of their platform. They've even demanded that they be part of design and have veto rights on packaging of 3rd party products that get sold in their stores. An #Apple product where they don't have oversight of every pixel is against their culture. Has been for decades. Think PowerPCs, clones, native Windows NT. Apple requires control. Linux on the M1 isn't that.@LateNightLinux @JoeRess @degville @8none1 @felimwhiteley
(DIR) Post #AFKsdoIeJXu9BhaDku by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T16:09:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike it'll be interesting to see which way this goes - wanna put a beer on it? 🙂 @LateNightLinux @JoeRess @degville @8none1 @felimwhiteley
(DIR) Post #AFKsn5ksmj8xvmDO5o by mike@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T16:10:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev Sure. You going to come and get it if you win?@LateNightLinux @JoeRess @degville @8none1 @felimwhiteley
(DIR) Post #AFKtMVuNXXZ3B9Xym8 by fedops@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T16:18:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike @kev I wonder which would shock me more. Apple being overly protective of their products, or someone flying from the UK to the US for a "beer".😂😂😂@LateNightLinux @JoeRess @degville @8none1 @felimwhiteley
(DIR) Post #AFKv4MZNipO8uZCNii by marquiskurt@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T16:37:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike OK, so now I’m curious. Why, do you think, Apple would help in getting Linux to run? Or even allow booting into different OSes on ASi Macs, for that matter?CC: @kev @felimwhiteley @degville @LateNightLinux @JoeRess @8none1
(DIR) Post #AFKw8VrbD3heqeGKye by mike@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T16:49:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@marquiskurt I'll answer this question with a question. Why does Apple NEED to help? Linux has been ported handily to everything from super computers to graphing calculators. The M1 is at its core an ARM processor, which Linux has run on for years. So what's making the M1 such a tough nut to crack?@kev @felimwhiteley @degville @LateNightLinux @JoeRess @8none1
(DIR) Post #AFL3RECfnE4hG1zUdk by marquiskurt@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T18:11:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike To be fair, I don’t recall any articles stating that Apple NEEDED to help. We could theoretically keep reverse-engineering it until we know the port works. Along with that, the M1 is more than just an ARM processor, it’s also an entire SoC.I understand the general frustration that it’s taking a long while to get Linux on ASi, but I’m not buying into this “Apple all evil” mentality.CC: @kev @8none1 @LateNightLinux @JoeRess @degville @felimwhiteley
(DIR) Post #AFL3bK0F5M5c8kzPAu by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T18:12:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike I’d love to! 😂@LateNightLinux @JoeRess @degville @8none1 @felimwhiteley
(DIR) Post #AFL4WJqWLC9c9zcXfE by mike@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T18:23:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@marquiskurt See, and that's the problem isn't it? Barely over a year ago Linus Torvalds was saying he doubted Linux would ever be ported fully to the M1. Why?"Apple won't be forthcoming with sufficient detail about the M1 System on Chip (SoC) for Linux kernel developers to build first-class support."https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/11/__trashed-6/Apple is "helping" because Apple won't help. Not exactly an example of full throated support here.@kev @8none1 @LateNightLinux @JoeRess @degville @felimwhiteley
(DIR) Post #AFLAFWEjcSbtOIJppI by marquiskurt@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T19:27:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike Okay? Apple may not want to help, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re out to take down Linux or screw the community entirely. While I agree that they should help in getting Linux running, even if it’s not in their best interests, this seems more like a means to just cry “Apple all evil”.To be fair, I have had issues with them as an app developer, but a good customer experience.@felimwhiteley @LateNightLinux @kev @degville @JoeRess @8none1
(DIR) Post #AFLDOB4Pz6XwDHJVqK by mike@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T20:03:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@marquiskurt "Apple all evil"? Not sure. I am sure that AT BEST, Apple is apathetic to the Linux community. As long as it's not taking a penny away from their bottom line, they're fine with it. They're not going to help in any significant way, but they're not going to blow the whole thing up either. I just have no faith that's going to last. As soon as Apple feels it's in their best interest to nuke the Linux community, they will.@felimwhiteley @LateNightLinux @kev @degville @JoeRess @8none1
(DIR) Post #AFLEPscfdvN7X4i7zU by marquiskurt@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T20:14:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike I haven’t seen Apple intentionally cripple or nuke the Linux community in the past under both the PowerPC and Intel/x86 architectures. I am failing to see how they could possibly nuke the Linux community under ASi given past experience.@8none1 @kev @LateNightLinux @felimwhiteley @degville @JoeRess
(DIR) Post #AFLH9sLPD6FFtjhAOm by mike@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T20:45:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@marquiskurt Heh, I've seen Apple "change it's mind" to the detriment of their "friends" several times. And I'm not even including times where Apple ripped off ideas from the App store for their own apps in house apps. They're moving more and more in house. Apple's lack of openness makes compatibility harder for anybody that's not Apple. Linux worked pretty well on pre-M1 Apple hardware. How does it work on Apple's new hardware?@8none1 @kev @LateNightLinux @felimwhiteley @degville @JoeRess
(DIR) Post #AFLHmlYYNiKu8hOD7g by marquiskurt@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T20:52:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike I feel that, as of this point, we’ve made it clear to each other we have very different views on Apple, and that continuing this discussion will get us nowhere other than frustrated. I merely wanted to ask why, despite their desire for total vertical integration, they bothered to keep the Mac open and provide some aid towards Linux porters.@degville @LateNightLinux @kev @8none1 @felimwhiteley @JoeRess
(DIR) Post #AFLIgdCgcj5oRznexk by mike@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T21:01:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@marquiskurt I think the way you and I define the word "open" may be very, VERY different.@degville @LateNightLinux @kev @8none1 @felimwhiteley @JoeRess
(DIR) Post #AFLKAgXasdofRUTRNg by marquiskurt@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T21:18:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike For this context specifically, I referred to “open” as “able to install other operating systems (even if nonexistent as of this point) or change security settings”, not as in “open source”.@JoeRess @8none1 @felimwhiteley @degville @kev @LateNightLinux
(DIR) Post #AFLKpQLXzl5L5cGUIi by mike@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T21:26:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@marquiskurt IMHO this exact conversation is why. The company and individuals within their communities can still claim that Apple isn't outright BLOCKING other OSs from their hardware, where functionally they're doing exact that by withholding information that would make other OSs feasible. In short, PR. I expect in the future that Apple will cease doing even that considering they're making it harder and harder over time.@JoeRess @8none1 @felimwhiteley @degville @kev @LateNightLinux
(DIR) Post #AFLMhQ23ToqzhqSTQ0 by marquiskurt@fosstodon.org
2022-01-11T21:47:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike As Kev stated before, Linux porters are getting _some_ help from Apple (likely including info). And even if Apple withholds the information, you could still likely reverse engineer it, even if it takes a while.I’m not going to continue down this thread anymore, because it’s not being helpful or productive for me, rather being frustrating and stressful.@8none1 @felimwhiteley @kev @JoeRess @degville @LateNightLinux