Post AFFckCUSefNfLwVCCW by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
(DIR) More posts by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
(DIR) Post #AFFVSakyzjUDiqt1Zw by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T00:49:59Z
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Man, if you live in a house which uses a furnace to heat, wood pellet boilers are a really cool idea.
(DIR) Post #AFFVSbDhGySH9uJxKq by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T00:51:47Z
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For the energy, they're roughly the same cost as natural gas, but natural gas is subject to silly ridiculous price swings and trees just aren't going to suddenly get more expensive.
(DIR) Post #AFFVSbh7VZzUdA5SCG by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T00:54:10Z
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And transporting natural gas is an ugly process, you need to freeze and compress it and use special ships to move it. Transporting wood pellets couldn't be any easier.
(DIR) Post #AFFVSc6zxMgtvQC7X6 by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T01:03:11Z
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What I think drives the price action on energy like natural gas is the lack of producer diversity. There are a few countries who make a lot of gas and most countries make none.
(DIR) Post #AFFVSccY43vbVGxJi4 by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T01:04:35Z
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Wood on the other hand is grown by practically everyone, and setting up pellet mills is a really fast endeavor. Compared to exploiting fossil fuel it's practically instant.
(DIR) Post #AFFVSd3qQZlKrvj7Fw by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T01:18:31Z
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The only real negative side of it is that converting wood to pellets requires a fair amount of energy itself. So the ideal place to produce pellets is somewhere where there's "excess" electricity.
(DIR) Post #AFFVSdV8n5b4EaUuno by TMakarios@theres.life
2022-01-09T01:24:23Z
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@cjdWhat's the advantage gained by converting it into pellets, rather than burning it as logs?
(DIR) Post #AFFVSdyZ1h8HhqGPfE by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T01:28:47Z
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@TMakarios Standardization. Which enables automation. You fill a hopper with pellets, you turn it on and go to sleep and it keeps you warm.There are wood boilers but they're super dirty because they need to somehow keep the fire going all of the time and then when you call for heat then they turn on a blower and make a mushroom cloud of smoke. That's your wood going up the chimney un-burned.Wood pellets don't replace a wood stove, they replace an oil furnace.
(DIR) Post #AFFVSeRzGIfVB61uWe by daniel@campduffel.social
2022-01-09T01:57:26Z
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@cjd @TMakarios There's a lot of good things about wood, but there are downsides. I'm not sure if there's enough to go around and emissions from it are pretty bad. Air quality sucks in an area where everyone is burning wood. Furnace designs can help with this somewhat. I've always wondered if we could grow enough dried algae pellets in the ocean and run them through modified coal plants.
(DIR) Post #AFFVrNIQB6tlDMLPwu by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T02:01:55Z
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@daniel @TMakarios I seem to recall pellet stoves, in particular, being pretty clean. I think in the US they're allowed to be vented like dryers, without a chimney, so they must be quite low in CO emissions anyway.
(DIR) Post #AFFXkY320MK8RS1D60 by daniel@campduffel.social
2022-01-09T02:23:07Z
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@cjd @TMakarios They have come along way. The sulfur compounds are the worst, carbon emissions to me are basically net zero. Still, you see so much acreage burn every year in wildfires and I always think about how many homes that could have heated and burned more efficiently.
(DIR) Post #AFFaqiMoqpF62uuF16 by TMakarios@theres.life
2022-01-09T02:57:50Z
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@danielIt sounds like a lot of this is quite location-dependent. Here near the middle of New Zealand, my wife and I seldom want overnight heating (the house keeps its heat well enough), and we'd want it even less if we double-glazed. It's windy here, too, so air quality isn't much of an issue, though I think there are regulations on the efficiency of newly installed wood burners.@cjd
(DIR) Post #AFFck8vFv6RAHt0XPU by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T01:24:16Z
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@cjd WELLLLLL i have some input on this topic living with a pellet stove somewhere that is 99% forest . inexecplicably this year the price of pellets went up 50%. i ask why? aren't they made out of mill waste? no one knows. also the power has been out for a week, so im sad. normally i dont have to deal with getting wood, splitting wood, curing wood. but now im freezing my face off because without electricity the pellet stove cant turn on :< :< power been out for 3 days. so much snow
(DIR) Post #AFFck9MYHcGteXmKxM by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T01:24:55Z
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@cjd if i stop resopnding its because the 12v battery in the UPS that is running the modem for DSL has died
(DIR) Post #AFFck9qKUu5h8ti7N2 by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T01:25:17Z
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@mlg Take care, wishing you the best!
(DIR) Post #AFFckAFqy0VWQ3eV9c by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T01:26:52Z
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@cjd haha thanks i do have a gas generator buried under a pile of garbage if things get real crazy (aka i want to flush the toilet , we also on a well) but any other year i would have full hearted agreed with you. if you have electricity pellet stoves really kick ass. they're cheaper than electric heat and dead simple, press a button on the thermostat and they keet your house +/- 2 degrees with none of the headache of woodstove
(DIR) Post #AFFckAf1SQdlg7QbNw by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T01:32:44Z
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@mlg Growing up, we had a wood stove and a gravity feed shallow well, so we could last for days without power. It's all in how you design your setup, if you really need power then a stationary diesel genset might be the thing. If power is optional for everything except heating, then definitely need a backup wood stove.
(DIR) Post #AFFckB7jjfbp7ArX8q by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T01:39:13Z
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@cjd moved here only 5 years ago. 1970s uninsulated doublewide in USA, i think the hope was energy would be energy becomes too cheap to meter any day now. main heat is electric furnace. NOT designed for resiliency lol. i think i sent it to you in some another thread recently. my dream is a lister engine that also can runs on vegetable oil or woodgas. but power usually stays on enough to not actually pursue things like that
(DIR) Post #AFFckBf3jmGQmWS956 by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T01:42:13Z
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@mlg Yeah, listers are very cool, you can rebuild them yourself and if you have the spare parts on hand you don't even need to worry about shipping.Unfortunately the compression ratio is high enough that woodgas is going to spontaneously combust in the cylinder (pre-ignition), and if you reduce the compression (e.g. head spacer) then it won't burn diesel anymore...
(DIR) Post #AFFckC607boa853f4i by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T01:44:30Z
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@mlg But hey, they're so cheap that it might be a good call to just make the head spacer and drill in a sparkplug so you can switch between top fuel and diesel in 20 minutes with a wrench.
(DIR) Post #AFFckCUSefNfLwVCCW by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T01:46:53Z
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@cjd https://mastodon.sdf.org/@mlg/107488998520805635lister running on woodgas generated by all power lab's gasifiers experimenters kit.they added a spark plug and ignition system, very simple made with arduino. i need to dig in references i think woodgas actually wants a bit higher compression ratio than gasoline as well
(DIR) Post #AFFckCtz7lnUd6RZz6 by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T01:47:37Z
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@cjd http://wiki.gekgasifier.com/w/page/30448258/Spark%20conversion%20for%20Lister%20slow%20speed%20diesel%20engines
(DIR) Post #AFFckDKZWv43xYsoQS by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T01:55:39Z
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@mlg Oh wow, that's impressive. Also quite interesting that they got it working well at 17:1
(DIR) Post #AFFckDlrtQtnKDebyK by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T02:02:20Z
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@cjd i've strated drinking the booze to cope with the cold and lack of electricity. but I'm pretty sure woodgas and ethanol (another interesting alternative fuel to me) idealy operate at higher compression ratios and different air fuel and compression ratios than gasoline engines but can also be made to run on stock engines
(DIR) Post #AFFckEBOMXJcbNazku by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T02:06:07Z
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@mlg Checking the paper, it seems that woodgas has some unique properties which make it workable at 17:1, whereas natural gas is limited to 15:1.
(DIR) Post #AFFckEfWYVQ06ph3iq by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T02:14:40Z
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@cjd careful i used to have a life a few years ago then i discovered driveonwood
(DIR) Post #AFFckF4L4FGfLnIsOu by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T02:15:43Z
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@mlg Where I can see woodgas really shining is for long haul truckers, anything they can do to cut fuel costs is going to save them quite a lot of money...
(DIR) Post #AFFckFVHS4oohLuOOW by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T02:25:49Z
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@mlg Ok, it's 19% H2, 19% CO and the rest inert. So I can kind of see why this would be ok at 17:1...
(DIR) Post #AFFckFzlcjCmDuAjui by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T02:33:33Z
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@cjd I warned you its a huge rabbit hole. theres people injecting water into their wood gasifier to increase the H2 %. and even crazier people trying to enrichen their gas with CH4 methane via catalysts. buts its a big equation. do you want to chase higher ultimate efficiency, or follow the efficiency of using off the shelf mass produce gasoline engines designed for 14.7 air to fuel ratio and whatever comperssion ratio
(DIR) Post #AFFckGQi0YkvZSmFuK by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T02:36:50Z
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@cjd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water%E2%80%93gas_shift_reaction
(DIR) Post #AFFckGpsUytApWYM8e by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T02:48:31Z
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@mlg Interesting as this is, it's still kind of a pain to make work. But there are two places I can see where this would be highly interesting.1. Long haul trucking2. Agriculture (where you have near 1000hp tractors which have to run all day for a month during seeding)Both of these fields are energy intensive and need energy in remote areas.
(DIR) Post #AFFckHGSu89k9yzaa0 by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T02:50:49Z
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@cjd ok yeah, but can they use less dense fuel? because wood is less dense. there is an alternative path trying to convert woody biomass into densified fuel. and then provide THAT to trucking or agriculture. its an open question as far as i can tell
(DIR) Post #AFFckHhPHxhtVXb6Zc by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T02:10:51Z
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@mlg It strikes me that if you wanted to run a diesel on natural gas or really anything, you could just start it on diesel and then after getting it up to speed, shut an air throttle and start the gas flowing at the same time. With the throttle, the engine will never be able to hit high compression numbers. Then all you need to do is drill it for a sparkplug.
(DIR) Post #AFFckHhPHxhtVXb6Zd by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T02:51:44Z
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@cjd methanol, dimethyl ether, etc. its a specialists concern which is thne best densified fuel to create from woody biomass
(DIR) Post #AFFckI4nsyQEg6Xn2e by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T02:52:27Z
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@mlg Well, for trucking maybe not, but lets talk about Ag for a minute, because tractors can be almost arbitrarily heavy.
(DIR) Post #AFFckIXWADOI79yinY by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T02:55:44Z
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@mlg Well, on density: Diesel is 37.95 Kwh per gallon and 28.55 gallons per ton. - 1083 Kwh/tonWood pellets are 4700 Kwh per ton.So energy density is actually in favor of wood. You lose a lot from poor efficiency but you're starting out with a fairly dense fuel.
(DIR) Post #AFFckJ2MJY3peoPLs0 by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T02:56:39Z
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@mlg Whoops, that's impossible, google is a liar!
(DIR) Post #AFFckJTeg3tZ1TB9Ps by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T02:59:18Z
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@mlg Ok 282 gallons/ton by the 7.1lb/gal computation. Ok so 10701.9, so yes, about double the density.
(DIR) Post #AFFckJvJ1G0sPE7EW0 by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T03:00:33Z
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@mlg Even so, I'd be more concerned about the weight of all the gasification gear as opposed to the weight of the pellets/chips themselves.
(DIR) Post #AFFckKKpUMQhgO3cIa by mlg@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T03:02:27Z
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@cjd thats the question. what does it look like for ag equipment? if you go to to driveonwood yuo see some teenager drove coast to coast back and forth across the USA on wood. on a stock pickup with the gasificaton equipment in the bed.but thats a pickup truck. not a combine
(DIR) Post #AFFckKllsByr1wf8IC by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T03:04:44Z
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@mlg Well, I wouldn't start out talking about combines, because at the point of harvest the field is so dry that there's a lot of paranoia about "one spark", and not only, the combine itself is a tinderbox with all the dust and chaff... But they use some monster tractors during seeding, the issue though is the turbocharger, and how to make big power and avoid knock despite it...
(DIR) Post #AFFckLCMHLFQMP6MjY by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T03:07:26Z
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@mlg 17:1 compression is a big deal, because you can make the case to the farmer that with nothing more than drilling in sparkplugs, they'll have an engine which can switch between diesel and gas with a switch of a button.That is to say, as long as it doesn't ruin their engine, they don't need to trust it to work.Now some farmers will refuse this because warantee, but if you get something off the ground then you can go to the Ag companies and start making deals...
(DIR) Post #AFFckLe0cXMjkA2Rpg by cjd@mastodon.social
2022-01-09T03:16:59Z
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@mlg The other advantage of farmers as customers is you can setup shop in an area where you can be 1 day drive from a number of farmers so you can be available on call in case a rig stops working. Truckers might be anywhere...But anyway, the big question is will it be ok with a turbocharger, and what's it going to take to get 800hp at the crank?
(DIR) Post #AFFzqb74JqQGOza11E by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-01-09T07:37:54Z
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@cjd you forgot lumbercoin
(DIR) Post #AFFzsEoqB8Rrpzptlg by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-01-09T07:38:14Z
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@cjd we have this thing called bilelines
(DIR) Post #AFG4ndYZHFHGsmqlk0 by thomask@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-01-09T08:33:23Z
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@wolf480pl @cjd Anyone who's played AOE2 multiplayer knows that lumbercoin will go to 14 gold and stay there forever
(DIR) Post #AFMSfq0UjFvaZNJkga by dazinism@social.coop
2022-01-12T10:29:11Z
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@danielA load of energy gets used for space heating. The annoying thing is, in many areas, it can be drastically reduced or avoided by better building design (see eg. Passive House). Sadly legislation for 'zero carbon' homes, here in the UK, was scrapped 5 years ago just as the ten year introduction period was coming to an end and they would be enacted 🙄https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/10/uk-scraps-zero-carbon-home-targetWood has a bad reputation for emissions dry fuel and efficient stoves help a lot @cjd @TMakarios
(DIR) Post #AFNernFOCzuQ5qiBfc by daniel@campduffel.social
2022-01-13T00:20:33Z
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@dazinism @cjd @TMakarios That does stink. The concept becoming mainstream has done some good though because people know they can get by with a lot less energy usage. People used to chop wood like madmen to make it through winter and I always thought they might be better off if they used it for insulation rather than burning it.