Post AE3DEoHUAWyI3IDSNc by saxnot@chaos.social
(DIR) More posts by saxnot@chaos.social
(DIR) Post #AE2Lq3B6LknzRbXRj6 by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-03T17:43:41Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
What makes more sense for an high-reliability application?
(DIR) Post #AE2MBAbFx0VmXmqJjE by mute_city@poa.st
2021-12-03T19:50:08.116579Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot > there he goes again shilling ocaml/f#
(DIR) Post #AE2MVXcg3t6JjwDmnA by jmw150@qoto.org
2021-12-03T19:53:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot Use C++ static or dynamic analysis tools and just fix the issue.
(DIR) Post #AE2MWgn5SecASmdbNI by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-03T19:53:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jmw150 what issue?
(DIR) Post #AE2Mevmjb2xZHfP2Gm by jmw150@qoto.org
2021-12-03T19:55:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot If there is any sort of memory leak or other problem with c++ code, it can be found using modern tools.
(DIR) Post #AE2MnAoraDI2EFKS24 by jmw150@qoto.org
2021-12-03T19:56:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot Recoding in rust or c# is serious overkill. It would both probably be really expensive, and introduce thousands of new bugs in the process.
(DIR) Post #AE2MuZIoxBOABmrqJU by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-03T19:58:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jmw150 I never said to have an memory leakI have a 30 year old software needing renovation
(DIR) Post #AE2MyhsT0w0rwTVvPs by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-03T19:59:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jmw150 yeah it would be overkill if you speculate about my intents in the wrong direction.If you guess my premise correct, you're right.Sadly you did not guess my premise correct
(DIR) Post #AE2N9cxVdrJ9sA50lc by jmw150@qoto.org
2021-12-03T20:00:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot Do you understand c++20 and what: linters, autoformaters, fuzzers, verifiers, etc are?
(DIR) Post #AE2NJ8ECkjdVSVQA40 by jmw150@qoto.org
2021-12-03T20:02:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot How big is the software base? I am guessing you adopted this thing.
(DIR) Post #AE2NLJrYSyKM7drzdo by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-03T20:03:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jmw150 yes I adopted it
(DIR) Post #AE2NN1CQpKPqonReG8 by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-03T20:03:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jmw150 yes I know how to use automated tooling
(DIR) Post #AE2OZIjdYWBgdJOgqm by jmw150@qoto.org
2021-12-03T20:16:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot Most of the time in the professional engineering world, software infrastructure is too big and expensive to replace outright.I just woke up. I treated it like an email, instead of an internet poll. 🥱
(DIR) Post #AE2SdAhRlxBogeTRTs by TheAlgorythm@chaos.social
2021-12-03T20:28:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot A big underrated advantage of #Rust in terms of reliability are the Result and Option types as they are much more explicit than exceptions and nullptr.Furthermore rustc/clippy are your best friend for writing good code.I‘ve never written code with a as good first (succesful) compile & success rate as in Rust.If it has to be low level, take a look at #Zig and if it doesn‘t have to be zero-overhad, maybe a functional lang would be a good contender.
(DIR) Post #AE2SdBXuct9nJN1LG4 by TheAlgorythm@chaos.social
2021-12-03T20:45:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot In theory you should be able to get the same relability with modern C++. Therefore the new e.g. optional and range types help a lot. But you have to force yourself to not use common C++ patterns as the compiler won‘t help you.
(DIR) Post #AE2SdC2kmDpKr1RyKW by jmw150@qoto.org
2021-12-03T21:02:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TheAlgorythm @saxnot A linter would be good in that case. Dated, but this would be how in clang-tidy.https://www.kdab.com/clang-tidy-part-1-modernize-source-code-using-c11c14/amp/
(DIR) Post #AE2TndNy4eGoVKupP6 by jmw150@qoto.org
2021-12-03T21:15:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TheAlgorythm @saxnot The funny thing is that even 5 years ago, clang-tidy used static analysis to perfectly refactor code automatically to a modern and more reliable version.Everybody seems to be living in the stone age.
(DIR) Post #AE2UATTF6TqsPkH2DQ by jmw150@qoto.org
2021-12-03T21:19:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TheAlgorythm @saxnot The funny thing is that even 5 years ago, clang-tidy used formal method techniques to perfectly refactor code automatically to a modern and more reliable version.Everybody seems to be living in the stone age.
(DIR) Post #AE3BhG3qHG7YPUGuem by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-04T05:27:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jmw150 so uh basically I write a test base for the old code, try to get coverage to nearly 100 %(should be possible with this code base because it has no UI and it's not using a database at all because you know, files are for data, you know?)clang-tidy to modern c++then auto-convert to rustthen clean up some moreand after like a year or so I have a rust program (?)idk i am getting paid by the hour lol@TheAlgorythm
(DIR) Post #AE3BjNXpQMweCQJD5E by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-04T05:27:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jmw150 so uh basically I write a test base for the old code, try to get coverage to nearly 100 %(should be possible with this code base because it has no UI and it's not using a database at all because you know, files are for data, you know?)clang-tidy to modern c++then auto-convert to rustthen clean up some moreand after like a year or so I have a rust program (?)idc i am getting paid by the hour lol and I was told to make it "modern".They don't want any new features@TheAlgorythm
(DIR) Post #AE3DEoHUAWyI3IDSNc by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-04T05:44:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jmw150 many functional languages are written in prod.For example Elixir is used by all modern messengers for the backend / lostic companys use them.I worked in a company where scala was written.etc @TheAlgorythm
(DIR) Post #AE3TLaBYZaNzd3h6LQ by TheAlgorythm@chaos.social
2021-12-04T08:45:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jmw150 Yes skills help, but on a big/complex highly multithreaded project with a big dev team, I don‘t think it is possible to check all combinations of edge cases.I know very talented Rust devs, who love it because it frees their mind about some error classes and focus on other things.@saxnot
(DIR) Post #AE3UspgE5KZBCASTT6 by TheAlgorythm@chaos.social
2021-12-04T09:02:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jmw150 A lot of newer versions of OOP langs like Java, Python and Swift borrowed concepts of FP like monadics (Option), match, map/any/…, so FP is somewhat successful.Yes it is a bit wierd, that Rust is the most loved Lang even though not as much program in it. But more importantly people who code in it like it.@saxnot
(DIR) Post #AE3aTFk5ABVEDnRpNA by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-04T08:54:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TheAlgorythm as is the purpose of a modern language!tagging @schnedan and @namark @jmw150
(DIR) Post #AE3aTGKwx6ze48hGq0 by namark@qoto.org
2021-12-04T10:04:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot thread seems broken on my end, I blame @jmw150, but anyway, sure, frees their mind, as in instead of studying the problem domain and designing a solution, they have to study the borrow checker implementation and work around it. Did you know you can't write a doubly linked list in safe rust? One has to wonder what other known and unknown entirely safe data structures, that might be the perfect fit for one's use case, one can not write, when one's mind is so free of memory trouble. Oh yes I too love not thinking about essential design elements of the system I'm working on, that's "how big/complex highly multithreaded project with a big dev team" should work, by not thinking. We don't want to have to teach the stupid interns our practices, we just want to unleash a dozen of them on the codebase and while they are wrecking absolute havoc, rely on the tooling to make sure the havoc is not of the particular kind that the latest pop culture buzz is all about. Why are we so careless you might ask, well, because there is no practice to teach, this is how our whole project was built from ground up, and this is how the whole industry works - end users are a commodity ripe for exploitation, quality standards don't exist, pretense and marketing alone sells imaginary products, errors are just a natural phenomenon that nobody is accountable for, THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS ORIMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THEAUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHERLIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM,OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THESOFTWARE.@TheAlgorythm @schnedan @jmw150
(DIR) Post #AE3kSX97yAApS1STTM by jmw150@qoto.org
2021-12-04T11:56:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot @TheAlgorythm Of course.
(DIR) Post #AE3qKXQ7fLHLi2yiBc by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-04T05:24:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Yes @TheAlgorythm that's what I fear. Across the lands and dwells of the C with the doubbly cross the lands are raw but beautiful.As a traveler I fear the gruff and ragged terrain with mountains like razors and puddles deep as oceans.This is the terrain of expert rangers. For all rangers setting our only a handful return every year. Nobody knows weather they found peace or doom out in this wasteland of a programming language
(DIR) Post #AE3qKXx5gleNMIP2Zc by jmw150@qoto.org
2021-12-04T13:02:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot @TheAlgorythm Ah C. There are these projects in progress on getting a handle on that landscape.https://vst.cs.princeton.edu/https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/boogie-an-intermediate-verification-language/https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3485498
(DIR) Post #AE3qP8pUWNugtG2UnQ by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-04T13:03:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@namark quote> thread seems broken on my end, I blame @jmw150 it's a different threat.Either you immediately adjust your behaviour in this discussion or you'll be removed from it.
(DIR) Post #AE3rGRtKNdktMEFj7o by namark@qoto.org
2021-12-04T13:13:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot I know it's a different thread and it is broken on my end, there is nothing above the message that you replied to tagging me. Even when I hop over to your instance the conversation seems discontinuous - the reply stars with "yes skills help" while there is no mentions or implications of skill in the post above it, which simply suggest alternative tooling. I ignore all that and reply to the specific post and what it presents. What are you on about?
(DIR) Post #AE3rYMjqHHIwaXML5M by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-04T13:16:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@namark ah i seeSome of the messages were send followers-only.That's not a problem specific to this thread and also not specific to he people here in the thread.I would be very careful putting the blame on any individual.It's more a problem on how "in-reply-to" and "references" work on mastodon.They work much better in email
(DIR) Post #AE3rcKChduxtszkLaK by saxnot@chaos.social
2021-12-04T13:17:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@namark this is the root tootYes the chain might appear broken depending on permission levelhttps://chaos.social/@saxnot/107384237028535396it's a mastodon problem
(DIR) Post #AE3s410KcUHSRqADBI by namark@qoto.org
2021-12-04T13:22:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot oh goshdarnit, thanks for clearing that up, I don't know how @jmw150 would have recovered from the soul-crushing blame otherwise.
(DIR) Post #AE4uNuTKMkBegp5lCK by fikran@thebag.social
2021-12-05T01:22:48.854547Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@saxnot I understood C# as being higher level, no? Also, rust probably aims to run on more hardware than C#...don't quote me on the latter.