Post ADnv3dpEPXIbeVXDRQ by Azure@tailswish.industries
(DIR) More posts by Azure@tailswish.industries
(DIR) Post #ADnuhAUqm2IeJuHlmC by Azure@tailswish.industries
2021-11-26T20:36:12.916517Z
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Everything I hear about Matrix just makes me think"Wait, why are we using this instead of the XMPP that has multiple server implementations that actually work?"
(DIR) Post #ADnulVEVcO3zn7i19U by Azure@tailswish.industries
2021-11-26T20:37:00.301752Z
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Not to mention full-featured clients that aren't web-apps.
(DIR) Post #ADnum241YOHhcA3btI by trysdyn@marf.space
2021-11-26T20:36:43.349920Z
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@Azure I am. I prefer it. The couple dozen people who went "I'm going to Matrix-only, follow or this is goodbye I guess" don't.
(DIR) Post #ADnv3dpEPXIbeVXDRQ by Azure@tailswish.industries
2021-11-26T20:40:16.502260Z
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@trysdyn I'm just annoyed at people doing the same "I'm only using Matrix now!" thing to me.
(DIR) Post #ADnvRQSBmIHp8B68o4 by trysdyn@marf.space
2021-11-26T20:42:40.511754Z
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@Azure It's pretty gross because of all the options on the table, Matrix right now has the highest barrier to entry. Standing up your own instance is a far larger financial and technical hurdle than even Mastodon, and finding someone else's to use is harder than Mastodon too because each new user is an appreciable ding on resources if they do chats at all.Kind of hate it.
(DIR) Post #ADnxlkDiCDS28T8vXE by drwho@hackers.town
2021-11-26T20:56:46Z
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@Azure The "not web app clients" thing is part of it. It goes hand in hand with the "the few web clients that exist aren't Slack or Discord."Folks couldn't care less about self-hosting or federation.
(DIR) Post #ADo1jXL3WB4ZQCmTBY by dasyatidprime@mastodon.technology
2021-11-26T21:52:12Z
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@Azure I attribute most of it to the broad trends flowing from TCP-as-session-layer being shredded to pieces. XMPP has mechanisms to bypass this but I haven't observed a well-integrated presentation of them yet.
(DIR) Post #ADo1jXn3q3TSp3sppw by dasyatidprime@mastodon.technology
2021-11-26T21:54:20Z
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@Azure And I attribute the _other_ most of it to the remote-exoself usage expectation.
(DIR) Post #ADo1jYCEKTbi57ew4G by Azure@tailswish.industries
2021-11-26T21:55:02.892400Z
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@dasyatidprime Which remote-exoself-usage expectation is that? That the server should have all the transcripts?
(DIR) Post #ADo1pMzctb1d4ZXT2e by dasyatidprime@mastodon.technology
2021-11-26T21:56:01Z
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@Azure Primarily, yes, though I think there's a swath of other possible light-to-human heavy-to-machine stuff surrounding that.
(DIR) Post #ADoC83YWNzNPpiPT0q by dasyatidprime@mastodon.technology
2021-11-26T23:49:05Z
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@Azure Things I can imagine off the top of my head:- The transcript should look completely consistent between multiple users.- Shared-space exomemory expectations regarding being able to delete other people's logs. (Yes, you can argue that this is stupid because the HardSecurity form is infeasible. That won't stop people who are used to it from thinking you're really creepy and feeling unsafe. Look at what happens to “being able to block specific people from viewing public posts” desires.)
(DIR) Post #ADoC83zokVD9CNBGYi by Azure@tailswish.industries
2021-11-26T23:51:33.903362Z
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@dasyatidprime More than hard security, I just don't like the idea of one person being in control of someone else's memory.
(DIR) Post #ADoCAniJk6DvZKIgsq by dasyatidprime@mastodon.technology
2021-11-26T23:51:44Z
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@Azure The second plays into the first, of course. And so does ‘message editing’ in general. I'm not sure how Matrix handles this client-wise, but I expect it uses the more-common-in-the-2020s model at the core of its server-side setup.Jabber servers being light and functional and easy has _partly_ been a function of not having to do any of that. I haven't looked for an “ejabberd _with all bells and whistles out of the box_” config thus far… I should see what's available.
(DIR) Post #ADoD8MYlpTu2j9EiDg by dasyatidprime@mastodon.technology
2021-11-26T23:54:42Z
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@Azure Yeah, but that's not what it _looks like_ on the screen, and guess what?Is it even their memory? Often yes, because that's the path of least resistance, but the social norms haven't updated—and I expect them to fall on the _other_ side; that's much cheaper than convincing enough people to record in a more privately-scoped fashion (and risk looking creepy because that's not normal) or rely entirely on neuronal memory (with attendant social handicap).
(DIR) Post #ADoD8MukVlU3pJWGTg by Azure@tailswish.industries
2021-11-27T00:02:48.402726Z
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@dasyatidprime I've never been a fan of 'creepy' either, it ends up with random xenophobia being elevated to the status of moral imperative.(With associated harm to the neurodivergent or anyone else whose reasons for acting are not immediately legible.)
(DIR) Post #ADoPU3B7lhc8RCHelc by dasyatidprime@mastodon.technology
2021-11-27T02:20:46Z
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@Azure Even if you ignore that, if it requires a button-press to turn on as opposed to not, the intentionality sort of screws everything up if there's _also_ a persistent record that doesn't require that.