Post ADFqeuhya7htnz75Tk by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #ADEYUSVeZnoj7TFqpU by FediFollows@mastodon.online
2021-11-09T16:02:43Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
FediBlock is a volunteer group which recommends Fediverse instances to block due to hate speech etc. You can follow them at:➡️ @fediblock Their website is at https://rathersafe.space/fediblockAs a safeguard against malicious blocking, blocks are voted on by the volunteers, with single votes against enough to stop block recommendations.❗ IMPORTANT NOTE: Despite the similar names and similar logos, I have no connection to FediBlock.#FediBlock #Fediverse #Activism #FediAdmin #MastoAdmin
(DIR) Post #ADEYUT8IG8j33JKi3c by PublicNuisance@fosstodon.org
2021-11-09T19:12:29Z
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@FediFollows I prefer to be the one to judge who I block or mute, not an instance. I would switch instances or look into self hosting if that became an issue.
(DIR) Post #ADEYVRLqMtDPoi8NVY by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2021-11-09T18:16:02Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@FediFollowsYeah, I think users should be responsible for blocking content they don't like, not instance admins. Projects such as this would hopefully make that task easier for people.@tio, you might be interested in this. As an instance admin who don't like to censor content, this could be a potential resource you can send people to when they ask for moderation :)@fediblock
(DIR) Post #ADEecwn0ToSn4YnnzU by PaulaToThePeople@climatejustice.social
2021-11-09T18:19:29Z
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@futureisfoss That is exactly the opposite of the projects intention.Admins and moderators should very much be the ones to moderate. They should protect users from harassment.Making it the user's responsibility to block harassers is almost victim blaming.@FediFollows @tio @fediblock
(DIR) Post #ADEecxMSM0osqVO7FI by tio@social.trom.tf
2021-11-09T18:28:50Z
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If you start to blame the instance admins for the content of the users on their instance, you do two very bad things:You create a mini-facebook out of all instances, and transform admins into biased owners of these communication platforms. Giving so much power to admins cannot result into anything good. They will be biased, users will be pissed.No one human can manage tens of others, let alone hundreds or thousands. You put too much pressure on instance admins.So, if you block our instance then you are not helping anyone and it is more unfair than what facebook does. Considering that users can easily block other users and maybe even instances, then why not let users decide for themselves what to block and what not? It is beyond me this culture of "lets protect the internet kids from the things we think they should not see". Let these kids be grown ups and protect themselves since it is so easy to do so.
(DIR) Post #ADEfAyltcJIf48ViCW by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2021-11-09T18:44:45Z
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@tioYeah, most people coming from mainstream social media platforms are used to this idea of someone else moderating the internet for them, we have to change this mentality and learn to take some responsibility ourselfs if we want a truly free internet, not to mention the pressure it puts on instance admins. The more I think about it, I feel like this self moderation thing would be more suitable for p2p networks like https://scuttlebutt.nz/@FediFollows @PaulaToThePeople @fediblock
(DIR) Post #ADEfAzLhTBwKrBGJ0a by FediFollows@mastodon.online
2021-11-09T20:07:44Z
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@futureisfoss @tio @PaulaToThePeople @fediblockFediBlock is giving specific reasons so instance admins can decide what to do on their own server.If you read all those reasons, everyone will find at least something where they agree with a block.It is totally fine for this info to be passed to instance admins so they can decide what to do.For example, an admin might not want to pay for costs of federating spam, so it is fine to warn them about spam instances.This is common sense.
(DIR) Post #ADEfAzwvEniKicg21g by FediFollows@mastodon.online
2021-11-09T20:09:25Z
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@futureisfoss @tio @PaulaToThePeople @fediblock If someone else is paying for the server, and has the legal responsibility for that server's content, then it is fine for them to establish certain rules.If you disagree, the Fediverse lets you move your account to another server, or even set up your own.This is totally different to Facebook, Twitter etc where there is no alternative, and everyone has to obey the same set of automated decision makers.
(DIR) Post #ADEfB0STLUx2ITRECe by tio@social.trom.tf
2021-11-09T20:21:18Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
The fact that you can, in theory, pack your bags and move, is not a reason to ignore the above points, You give too much power and responsibility to a very small number of individuals (admins) and that cannot be sustainable or fair. Like I do not care about nudity and I do not regard it as an "issue", since that's beyond ridiculous. But then what if your league of "lets ban certain instances" decides to ban my instance simply because I allow others to post nudity? Then you "punish" all of us for that? Will this league-of-federated-gentleman become more and more powerful and we have to bow to it so we are not banned?Sorry but this is ridiculous. To punish lots of individuals at once by punishing instances, when anyone on the fediverse can easily block anyone they want.
(DIR) Post #ADEfj0D6m1CLNGSiv2 by tio@social.trom.tf
2021-11-09T20:24:41Z
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For example, an admin might not want to pay for costs of federating spam, so it is fine to warn them about spam instances.Spam is different. Instance admins are ofc free to ban anyone or anything, but they should make these decisions transparent. However banning entire instances should be the last resort. A better alternative is to not allow global feeds for example.
(DIR) Post #ADEiv7xE6jQqjFVUbw by miku86@social.trom.tf
2021-11-09T20:47:33Z
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There is a difference between responsibility and guilt.I am responsible to block harassers.If I need help, I ask for help, e.g. from an instance owner.But I don't need unsolicited help from an instance owner who thinks they know what I do (not) want to see.
(DIR) Post #ADFqYsdnM68deiHT2O by tio@social.trom.tf
2021-11-09T23:51:37Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Isn't it that if you have a Peertube account with instance A then you can follow any account from any instance? Wouldn't it be awful if you friend, from instance B, sends you their peertube account and you simply cannot follow them from the instance A since instance A blocks instance B? That I find outrageous.I own a Peertube instance too, and we have hundreds of users, and yes I can say what instances/channels my instance should follow, but I NEVER tell users what they should or should not follow. So any peertube account can be followed from my instance. That should be the norm.So then, why in the world would you like mastodon and the like act like tiny facebook's and stop me from following anyone from the fediverse?
(DIR) Post #ADFqeuhya7htnz75Tk by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2021-11-10T03:19:05Z
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@FediFollowsJust to be clear, I never said that @fediblock is only for users, I know that admins would use it. Because of the legal complications and the cost of running servers, admins might have to block certain things like spam. But like @tio said, blocking instances should be a last resort.This is the reason why I mentioned p2p networks, because it doesn't have this legal & cost issues we have here. They're still experimental now, but I think p2p is the future 🙂 @PaulaToThePeople
(DIR) Post #ADFqevNo4bARtigUgC by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2021-11-10T03:29:36Z
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@FediFollows @fediblock @tio @PaulaToThePeopleAlso, I never said that fediverse is another Facebook, I know very well how fediverse works and the fact that I can move instances does make a difference. However, the federation approach is not perfect and there are some valid criticisms for it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0mG33R1IbMIn short, I don't think fediverse will ever become like facebook, but it can very well be another email story where a few providers have more power.
(DIR) Post #ADFqf0pznDgeoauZoO by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2021-11-10T03:46:08Z
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@FediFollows @fediblock @tio @PaulaToThePeopleWhat I really wanted to point out here is this mindset of "someone else moderating the internet for me", which is coming from mainstream social medias. We'll have to take some responsibility ourselves if we want a more free internet. Even on the fediverse, I had to moderate my global timeline myself, even though my instance admins does block some stuff. On p2p networks, it'll be more like this so you'll be responsible for who you wanna connect with.
(DIR) Post #ADFqf2nwTpEUunxxtA by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2021-11-10T03:54:13Z
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@FediFollows @tio @PaulaToThePeopleBlocklists such as @fediblock could be used by users to take some responsibility themselves and take the burden off of instance admins. On truly decentralized p2p networks, community maintained blocklists like this can be used by users to block the type of content they don't want. So if they're OK with nudity, but not OK with spam or violence, then they can choose to block only that.
(DIR) Post #ADFqzyX9YP3Hkc5svY by FediFollows@mastodon.online
2021-11-09T21:08:26Z
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@miku86 @tio @futureisfoss @PaulaToThePeople @fediblock ...but it isn't just about you.If an instance federates, those messages become available to everyone on the instance.Just because you might be okay interacting with a homophobe or a racist or whatever, others might be extremely uncomfortable.The solution is to allow each instance to decide its own policy.If you want complete control over what you see, get your own instance. It only costs a few dollars a month.
(DIR) Post #ADFr4o33xvEmgAK5g0 by FediFollows@mastodon.online
2021-11-09T20:43:08Z
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@tio @futureisfoss @PaulaToThePeople @fediblock You're missing the point... there is no blanket banning on the Fediverse.There are thousands of independent instances all with their own rules, who make decisions independently.Each instance has the right to decide who it federates with, for whatever reason.Some instances block mastodon.online because it's very large, so they are also blocking me too. That's not punishment, that's just independent instances deciding their own priorities.
(DIR) Post #ADFr4oeHjX0mXbjoh6 by tio@social.trom.tf
2021-11-09T22:38:58Z
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You're missing the point... there is no blanket banning on the Fediverse.Isn't what you are promoting here a sort of soft blanket for the fediverse in terms of what should be banned? Like a recommendation list of sorts....that maybe could be implemented by default to such networks, who knows...
(DIR) Post #ADFr4pBxiJwyE3UiBc by FediFollows@mastodon.online
2021-11-10T10:01:27Z
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@tio @futureisfoss @PaulaToThePeople @fediblock No, you're misunderstanding what this is.FediBlock is just a group of volunteers saying "we have seen evidence these instances might be spammers/homophobes/racists etc, you might want to consider blocking them".They have zero power over anyone, it's just an advisory service for those who want it.It's entirely up to the thousands of independent instance owners to decide what to do.This is how the Fediverse is supposed to work!
(DIR) Post #ADFrPXpNT8PQS7oJt2 by vae@programming.socks.town
2021-11-10T10:19:07.976537Z
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@FediFollows @tio @futureisfoss @PaulaToThePeople @fediblock and the list doesn't suggest total de-federation, admins can just limit posts there to be followers only or force-nsfw or just removal from federated timeline. so you could still see posts from your friend on a banned peertube instance, you just have to follow them
(DIR) Post #ADFrdaDvMEyzwBzCvw by tio@social.trom.tf
2021-11-09T20:48:50Z
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And exactly that's the issue. Bad practice. What is the point of the fediverse if instance admins can block your access to other instances? Federation should be a protocol (activitypub) and should connect anyone who uses the protocol. As simple as that. You provide a communication tool, and whatever users communicate with each other and post, is their own "business".
(DIR) Post #ADFrdarcyck3vKYuoq by juleLe@social.tchncs.de
2021-11-10T07:40:08Z
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@tioIf it wasn't possible for admins to block instances it would have been much harder to block gab and the fediverse would be swamped with Nazi posts. I believe there are instances that deserve to be on a global block list.Isn't it the beauty of the fediverse that the users can deside whether they want to be part of a more heavily moderated instance or not?For some people it might be hurting/damaging to see nudity. They can go to an instance that blocks your - 1/2
(DIR) Post #ADFrdbUcddvxsGo3bE by tio@social.trom.tf
2021-11-10T10:17:32Z
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Admins should be able to block anything they want, IPs included, but the practice to cut ties with entire instances is a very bad practice, akin to gmail cutting ties with yahoo, making users unable to contact each other. If you want less nazi and crazy content then block them on a user level. Or do not allow them on your own instance. Moderating your own instance is one thing, cutting ties with other instances is another.
(DIR) Post #ADFrdcmjpm1FskI2TY by juleLe@social.tchncs.de
2021-11-10T07:40:09Z
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instance. Others don't care, they go to an instance that doesn't block yours. There's a home for everyone.@futureisfoss @FediFollows @PaulaToThePeople @fediblock - 2/2
(DIR) Post #ADFrtR8EvbW8NDt332 by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-11-10T10:24:37.202532Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@vae > noagendasociol> Their podcast is also doing covid conspiracies.rofl.
(DIR) Post #ADFs6djlNDZdETjZ6O by heimdall@chaos.social
2021-11-09T21:40:10Z
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@miku86 But this is the point which is tried to be made: My instance owner knows what I want. My instance has a set of rules (which protect me e.g. from homophobia) and I am very thankful, that my admins block that without my interaction needed.
(DIR) Post #ADFs7GN5jRbz3SQVg8 by tio@social.trom.tf
2021-11-09T22:30:50Z
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Your instance owner does not know what you want. He/she has a rough idea of what you may want. And they are humans, they will change their attitudes in time. Knowing that your instance admin acts like a facebook/twitter entity is concerning enough. Searching for a "protector" to take care of your online life, is begging for repercussions that will end up biting your ass in the end. Not sure how you guys cannot see that this is as damaging as the facebook approach. The federation should have been about letting users connect with each other without a big entity deciding who can connect with who. Now your solution is to make mini-facebooks with mini-zuckerbergs deciding not for billions of users, but for hundreds/thousands of them. How is this different?
(DIR) Post #ADFs7KWoHFlJwl0KNk by heimdall@chaos.social
2021-11-10T09:30:12Z
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@tio @miku86 There is a lot wrong in your post, but I try to only answer your last question: I have a choice which instance I join. I can go for an instance without moderation or with certain rules. When I change my mind Mastodon allows easy migration to another instance.
(DIR) Post #ADHe9NfuXRdFF9GTbc by tio@social.trom.tf
2021-11-10T10:51:37Z
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For example on Peertube I, as admin, can select to not display NSFW content or to blur it. But guess what? Users themselves label their content as NSFW and my instance only says "Whenever I find such videos that are labeled as NSFW by their creators, do the above". So this is Peertube implementing a rule instance-wise, but respecting the choice of users. Understand?