Post AD52wchc8HODc0I38K by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #AD4rijxnEzKMa72FpA by freemo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T03:00:49Z
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Anyone out there other than me old enough to have run a 10base2 network in their home? My first computers 2 computers when I was in high school I connected together with a 10base2 with 50 ohm terminators and all that. My mom wasnt happy as I literally knocked a hole in her wall without asking her.This was back when the internet was still fairly new so you would get on with 1200 baud modems to a BBS that would give you a piggyback onto the internet which you might be lucky to get access to for 30 - 60 minutes a day.10base2 network card attached for prosperity. #History #Computers #CS #Engineering #ComputerEngineering #ComputerScience #Science @Science
(DIR) Post #AD4sKZem0e47cUBBsu by lucifargundam@qoto.org
2021-11-05T03:07:40Z
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@freemo @Science Couldn't find anything on eBay, so here's Amazonhttps://www.amazon.com/10BaseT-10Base2-Converter-Ethernet-10Base-T/dp/B07KSW4MZ6
(DIR) Post #AD4snvLuQMO7J1LpA0 by freemo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T03:12:54Z
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@lucifargundam Yea I saw this. though it doesnt even connect to your computer to get you 10base2 access. It just converts from one obsolete standard (10base2) to another (10baseT)@Science
(DIR) Post #AD4u1cUhR2uypIYbui by lucifargundam@qoto.org
2021-11-05T03:26:37Z
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@freemo @Science 10b2 >> 10bT >> rj45 >>fiber? :D is that a thing? How many more adapters do we need to human-centipede to make it work?
(DIR) Post #AD4w244F7OT2FfWQvQ by freemo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T03:49:06Z
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@lucifargundam Would kinda be fun to find some old school super ass slow networking connectors and chain them them through a series of adapters for each generation till you get to a gigabit network, and then run it on a modern network :)@Science
(DIR) Post #AD52qaxzfoGeUV4qjw by lucifargundam@qoto.org
2021-11-05T05:05:30Z
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@freemo @Science
(DIR) Post #AD52wchc8HODc0I38K by freemo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T05:06:28Z
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@lucifargundam Hahaha, facts!@Science
(DIR) Post #AD53sOsnfghPXz4YsK by olamundo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T05:17:01Z
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@lucifargundamGet a USB cd-rom reader (also called USB-to-CD connector), make a copy of the ISO, find your other games, do the game. Remeber each U2C is only usable once, then it "burns".After a while you'll have a full digitized game_image.iso collection!At the time CD's were popular, computers used to run that old faulty OS with the four squares logo. So to run them, you'll need to install Wine.I recommend _rosè_ , or an aged _Cabernet-sauvignon_ . @freemo @Science
(DIR) Post #AD53vn44DkURPjxWam by olamundo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T05:17:40Z
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@lucifargundamGet a USB cd-rom reader (also called USB-to-CD connector), make a copy of the ISO, find your other games, do the same. Remeber each U2C is only usable once, then it "burns".After a while you'll have a full digitized game_image.iso collection!At the time CD's were popular, computers used to run that old faulty OS with the four squares logo. So to run them, you'll need to install Wine.I recommend _rosè_ , or an aged _Cabernet-sauvignon_ . @freemo @Science
(DIR) Post #AD545MIQbFKNI0Ero0 by olamundo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T05:19:23Z
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@lucifargundamGet a USB cd-rom reader (also called USB-to-CD connector), make a copy of the ISO, find your other games, do the same. Remeber each U2C is only usable once, then it “burns”.After a while you’ll have a full digitalized game_image.iso collection!At the time CD’s were popular, computers used to run that old faulty OS with the four squares logo. So to run them, you’ll need to install Wine.I recommend rosè , or an aged Cabernet-sauvignon .@freemo @Science
(DIR) Post #AD5GCa6SrYOzaWqyWm by Sophistifunk@noagendasocial.com
2021-11-05T07:35:11Z
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@freemo @Science god I hated those networks 😂
(DIR) Post #AD5IKdZy1VZcaqcdea by modrobert@qoto.org
2021-11-05T07:59:00Z
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@freemo @Science I did 2mbit arcnet coax before ethernet, does that qualify?
(DIR) Post #AD5JdPjLpukJ6BWqZ6 by bonifartius@qoto.org
2021-11-05T08:13:35Z
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@freemo @Science i always wanted to but those cards were expensive :D
(DIR) Post #AD5KHc0XbpCOl8jlKq by trinsec@qoto.org
2021-11-05T08:20:47Z
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@freemo Hehehe, never had them myself, but I've seen them at work before. Especially handy for the big places. :)How come this kind of networking isn't in use anymore? Isn't it much easier cabling-wise?
(DIR) Post #AD5l3i8ohoeAUSChwe by ton@m.tzyl.nl
2021-11-05T13:20:52Z
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@freemo @Science we used it to connect 2 pcs in our student dorm and do airbattles against each other ca 1990/2.
(DIR) Post #AD5l8vR4hkAlAcELkO by ton@m.tzyl.nl
2021-11-05T13:21:37Z
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@freemo @Science and i probably have a box w bnc connectors in the attic, if not the cards themselves.
(DIR) Post #AD5mQKmZopX4ev9XFI by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2021-11-05T13:36:13Z
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@freemo @Science You had 1200 bauds?
(DIR) Post #AD5pHkEC8y2OphfOq0 by robryk@qoto.org
2021-11-05T14:08:15Z
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@freemo @Science What is the shield connected to? I vaguely remember breaking a network card's transceiver by dropping scissors in a way that shorted the shield of the BNC connector to the computer's chassis (the card that broke was, weirdly enough, the one where that happened and not the other one on the network). I expect that the shield cannot be connected to ground via low-impedance anything, because this would create a ground loop. So, is it galvanically isolated from the rest of the computer or is it connected to something?
(DIR) Post #AD5pdbVlEUCqAZJ3q4 by freemo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T14:12:03Z
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@robryk Ideally the shield should be connected to ground as in any coax configuration. However even if it werent connected to ground it would work, so its possible you had some sort of a cheap card that was wired weird. Also possible there was a bias-t hooked up to inject power into the coax, in which case the shield should have still been counded but could possibly explain the problem you had if it was wired wrong.You may have had a ground loop going on, but that should only happen if, again, your home or computer is wrired incorrectly.@Science
(DIR) Post #AD5pgOATIcyDedg0Aq by hansw@hub.libranet.de
2021-11-05T14:12:23Z
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My first network at home :-) Was a gift from someone I helped.
(DIR) Post #AD5qPWQVROJqIchJcu by freemo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T14:20:39Z
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@amerika Yes my very first modem was 1200 baud. Though I think at the time technology had advanced to 9600 baud, but I was a poor kid.@Science
(DIR) Post #AD5qTziUU0IGIcF5cG by robryk@qoto.org
2021-11-05T14:21:28Z
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@freemo @ScienceAt that time the house in question was essentially wired as TN-C, with the E-N split happening in outlets. I don't think there was a way to get different PE potentials in different places, unless one was totally disconnected (which I doubt -- I think we actually measured PE-N resistance as part of figuring out how everything is wired up). So, dunno what could have been wrong.Maybe the adapter was weird, but if someone cheaped out, I'd expect them to do less galvanic insulation and just ground everything that's vaguely ground-shaped.Also: how was this supposed to work when computers it connected just had different ground potentials? Coax had something like 100m max distance it was supposed to be used for 10Mbps connections over, and that can easily span buildings, which could then be on TT or be on TN but on different power substations.
(DIR) Post #AD5qVYbQGNH8mmgJZA by freemo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T14:21:27Z
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@modrobert No but still cool :)@Science
(DIR) Post #AD5qWxiWNDeCxzfiD2 by freemo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T14:21:44Z
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@Sophistifunk So did God@Science
(DIR) Post #AD5qfoRqClVkpF5dvk by freemo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T14:23:42Z
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@trinsec well aside from being much slower (it slows down the more computers you have on a ring) it is also much more finichy on a few accounts. 1) any computer that is at the end of a chain needs a terminator, without it everyone on the wire cant connect. 2) if any one point in the network fails then the entire network fails, or atleast everyone on that loop/chain.
(DIR) Post #AD5qiTglqMUfJKLObo by freemo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T14:24:16Z
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@hansw Nice!
(DIR) Post #AD5qlLXiaR16unTgDA by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2021-11-05T14:24:51Z
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@freemo @Science I remember those USR HSTs (19.2kbaud) and how all of us wanted one, but they were like $1100. And the Telebit modems were even better.
(DIR) Post #AD5qvpA7JkMBfpR0fQ by freemo@qoto.org
2021-11-05T14:26:43Z
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@amerika Back in my day they were coming up with new faster modems all the time. The holy grail was the 56K modems that were pretty much the last and fastest before things like DSL started to become the norm. Still used your phone lines and sent audio, but they were faster and would let you talk on the phone at the same time.@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6jtcsxqdTLAtXoki by robryk@qoto.org
2022-01-04T20:18:27Z
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@freemoI just saw an application note for 10base{2,5} transceivers and it shows transceivers with complete galvanic insulation (well, apart from a 1MOhm resistor between shield and ground): http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/components/national/_appNotes/AN-0442.pdfIt also states that the 1MOhm resistor is mandated by spec to discharge static electricity, so I infer that spec requires galvanic insulation.@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6jtdIUJjtAS3UCXI by freemo@qoto.org
2022-01-04T20:26:42Z
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@robrykNot having a grounded shield is also a bit of a safety hazard. 10 ohm resistor between shield and ground seems odd to me.@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6k7GDOvsu6uybZQG by robryk@qoto.org
2022-01-04T20:29:09Z
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@freemoNot sure if you misread or mistyped: it was 1 megaohm.I really don't see how you could avoid having a ground loop through the network cable otherwise, at least for runs that span buildings.Re safety: do you mean that one of the transceivers could be broken and connect the shield to something?@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6kwXbQ2w1Rc3I8iO by freemo@qoto.org
2022-01-04T20:38:29Z
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@robrykaI mistyped.Why do you think a ground loop would occur when spanning buildings? The neutral line in a power line is grounded at many points in each building, usually this doesnt cause a problem.Yes the safety issue largely has to do with shorts to the shield.@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6mBe8g7soqBPcCBc by robryk@qoto.org
2022-01-04T20:52:29Z
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@freemoWhy would it need to be the same PE line? If the buildings are on TN-S (which is rare), then their ground/PE is connected to grounding rods, water pipes, and nothing else. If they are on TN-C, then their ground/PE is connected to the neutral line from the grid: but they might be on different substations. In both the TN-S and TN-C with different substations case, PE of both buildings is grounded (hopefully with some reasonably low resistance to ground[1] on the order of tens of ohms), but the only way they are connected with each other is via the soil, so the resistance between PE of one and the other building is of the same order of magnitude as the resistance-to-ground of either. This is way higher than the resistance of the shield in a coax cable, so if the actual ground potential under the two buildings is different, you'll get some current through the shield.Am I mistaken in the way I imagine this somewhere?[1] I use a model where we have some "true" ground and grounding rods have a connection to it via some resistance. I don't know when this model breaks down.@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6mRU3JOa0tX8em9o by freemo@qoto.org
2022-01-04T20:55:15Z
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@robrykPhysical earth groubds according to electrical code must always be bonded, as in electrically connected. Across buildings this occurs through the neutral line. So their electrical connection is not limited through the earth but are also connected through a wire.@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6n0pMCB3yLkBLIHI by robryk@qoto.org
2022-01-04T21:01:38Z
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@freemoSorry, s/TN-S/TT/ in my previous post (and TT is rare enough not to mention anywhere I lived, so ignore it).How does this work for areas served by different substations? Are the neutrals of different substations connected with each other?@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6qJLJ6QTjTuVPrsm by robryk@qoto.org
2022-01-04T21:04:02Z
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@freemoAh, I guess they are anyway connected in practice via the water mains.@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6qJLlohihXLYqndg by freemo@qoto.org
2022-01-04T21:38:34Z
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@robrykYes even substations have their grounds bonded. All neutrals everywhere have groubd rods every few poles and are bonded across substations. Grounds are always bonded.@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6qvi8jyy0JjHrgWG by freemo@qoto.org
2022-01-04T21:45:31Z
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@robrykGrounding via water mains is no longer up to code. You must use a ground rod these days. They are bonded through a physical wire.@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6r1xRZzo1Qvmeh72 by robryk@qoto.org
2022-01-04T21:46:42Z
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@freemoSure, but you're _also_ required to bond with water mains ttbomk, and that was the most obvious way to convince myself that grounds of adjacent substations must have a low-resistance connection.@Science
(DIR) Post #AF6rMWp4ATOMRqRxEe by freemo@qoto.org
2022-01-04T21:50:21Z
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@robrykAttached you will see a picture of a transformer which could represent a substation. Notice how all the grounds are electrically connected and they even add an additional bonding wire (this is because neutral can be disconnected via fuse and you dont want this to disconnect your bonding).@Science