Post ACLIBRiFzbHJCT2LD6 by Scorne@kiwifarms.cc
 (DIR) More posts by Scorne@kiwifarms.cc
 (DIR) Post #ACLGr4X0N4mtYfUk8u by Scorne@kiwifarms.cc
       2021-10-14T03:05:47.690820Z
       
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       Can someone explain to me a stateless communist society and by extension a economy without money. I literally cannot understand it, and listening to commie's state it like it makes sense confounds me
       
 (DIR) Post #ACLHHgG2jBcY5sFUmW by PunishedD@kiwifarms.cc
       2021-10-14T03:10:35.866532Z
       
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       @Scorne Stateless communist society = rule by consensus.  Depending on who you ask, either democratically or through a soviet (local governing council).  This works about as well as you saw in the CHAZ last year.Economy without money = barter, labor exchange, or some form of labor value unit like scrip.  The first two work fine at the village level, the 3rd works OK within a single local, limited sector; all of them fall apart as soon as you start to scale it past 2 villages.TL;DR commies are idiots who don't understand human nature or scaling solutions.
       
 (DIR) Post #ACLIBRiFzbHJCT2LD6 by Scorne@kiwifarms.cc
       2021-10-14T03:20:40.922838Z
       
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       @PunishedD I don't even understand how any would work on even a village level without a patriarch or matriarch leading the village, essentially tribalism, which seems to be the natural proclivity of humans.And historically any time bartering was used it quickly went to a medium they could use easily, like gold, silver, stones, guns, cloth, or alcohol.I'm really not trying to be hostile to the ideology, I just cannot understand what they are thinking
       
 (DIR) Post #ACLIiLA5N24oREjrAe by PunishedD@kiwifarms.cc
       2021-10-14T03:26:37.157436Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @Scorne It's idealism, straight up.At the village level, they think they can get enough consensus to make all the decisions.  The theory is that once you remove money, private property, and all the political distortions, humans are left with communal instincts and can work towards the greater good once all their material needs are met.  The traditional patriarch or chief is hierarchy, and shouldn't be needed once everyone is fully empowered.No, these people have never run anything other than a mob or a gang.The barter to commodity evolution is well-documented.  Communism's big "innovation" was supposed to be the labor theory of value, which would let you price goods differently (in scrip or whatever).  But really the commune/soviet is supposed to handle resource allocation, barter/scrip are just an intermediary.No, these people have never actually made money doing productive work.
       
 (DIR) Post #ACLKJWSoPdgU9xn8YS by JetFuelJohnny@kiwifarms.cc
       2021-10-14T03:38:21.687397Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @PunishedD @Scorne Scrip.You mean, like money?
       
 (DIR) Post #ACLKJX0UOQcfqPY22y by PunishedD@kiwifarms.cc
       2021-10-14T03:44:32.561978Z
       
       2 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @JetFuelJohnny @Scorne If you issue enough of it, or have a central issuer, yes.But in a communal context, anyone can issue scrip on their own recognizance.  If I want to pay a baker for a loaf of bread with an hour of my labor, I can write the scrip on the spot, then they can redeem it or trade it for other people's scrip.That's not technically money, because it's not quite commodified, and it's not a store of value; it's a promise of future value.  There's other definition problems but at that point you're just watching drunk economists bicker after a conference.Scrip schemes usually fall apart before anyone can try to call it money, but that doesn't stop people from trying.