Post ABlGi6eOTl0eIv72rA by FemaleIsNotAFeeling@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by FemaleIsNotAFeeling@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #ABaendOervXkoBNcqO by sleepwalker@spinster.xyz
2021-09-21T15:04:17.038370Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
I wonder why people who think that acknowledgement of the fact that orientation is political is homophobic and leads to conversion therapy don't think that trying to find biological cause of lesbian or gay orientation is fascist and will lead to eugenics
(DIR) Post #ABlCg4ZNg38Q0RD88e by leznotless@spinster.xyz
2021-09-21T17:21:47.552437Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker Except Orientation ISN'T political. It's not a choice, or some conscious thing you control, it's a way of being. It exists completely independently of political or personal view. There's already evidence of homosexuality being biological and where on earth do you come to the conclusion it's fascist to say that???Gay people have talked for decades about how being gay isn't a choice and that rhetoric claiming it is only hurts us; we talk about it now with genderism and "open minded sexuality" nonsense, so I wonder, why are you so adamant against acknowledging the harm that it brings?
(DIR) Post #ABlDU9ico6SwSGPr84 by sleepwalker@spinster.xyz
2021-09-21T17:47:19.876393Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@leznotless why are you telling me this, do you think there's a single soul in the more or less civilized world who's not aware of the queer agenda? Before "gay people" talked for decades about how it isn't a choice they also talked for decades how it's about choice before persecutions reached the point where a lot of them decided to act like they can't help it in hopes of gaining sympathy so don't think that the idea of inborn orientation always been around and was always universally agreed upon among "gay people" themselves, especially before they were forced to say it. There will be no liberation for women as long as HETEROsexuality is being thought of as natural and unchangeable, while it's not, and the conversion therapy is ongoing from the moment you're born so no it wasn't solved when lesbians and gays assumed the stance of "I would change if I could", it was only even more allowed and the analysis of it became forbidden least you'll be turfed out from the progressive circles as a "homophobe". Neat.
(DIR) Post #ABlDUACP1OHjwcLdXk by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T17:38:24.669342Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker @leznotless Are you suggesting that heterosexual women could change and be attracted to women instead of men if only homosexuals would stop saying that they can't change who they are attracted to?I'm really not following your reasoning here.
(DIR) Post #ABlFqOKOXSNtUa93Me by sleepwalker@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T17:45:28.256212Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Fullycaffeinated @leznotless It's neither what I'm suggesting nor what I'm saying, also we should return to the definition of lesbianism that doesn't center sexual activity for me to explain my point. So with that out of the way, I'm saying that straight women can learn to love women, and they don't even need lgb community approval to do that, but if lgb stopped trying to shut down the rhetoric of political lesbianism that would be nice
(DIR) Post #ABlFqOzs3FYrZDYB0q by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:04:50.156345Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker @leznotless Well, I do love women. We are, by and large, a wonderful bunch. But I am not sexually attracted to them therefore not, by definition, a lesbian. I could not learn to love women in a romantic way, and if you're talking about platonically loving women, isn't that just friendship?
(DIR) Post #ABlFzmpMoqyQ5B70RU by Radfemmery@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T17:53:16.916712Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker @Fullycaffeinated @leznotless I think she meant the personal is political. So sexual orientation is political like everything else. Also, politics probably do have some influence on people's sexual orientation
(DIR) Post #ABlFznHj7PetV8Nee8 by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:06:32.476145Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Radfemmery @sleepwalker @leznotless I can believe that politics, social conditioning, cultural pressure, and more can influence sexual behaviours, but I don't think it would change someone's sexual orientation.
(DIR) Post #ABlGLCfhvUJyJmo2l6 by FemaleIsNotAFeeling@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T17:50:08.844292Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Blackgendermoderate Had to google who Cynthia Nixon was. Interesting perspective. I might consider those people bisexual.@sleepwalker
(DIR) Post #ABlGeVyCOrLhflfDGa by Radfemmery@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:09:26.316890Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Fullycaffeinated @leznotless @sleepwalker I'm not saying it could change. I'm saying no one is exactly born gay
(DIR) Post #ABlGeWSKapS5BDlHEW by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:13:53.929373Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Radfemmery @leznotless @sleepwalker You could also say that no one is born straight since none of us experience sexual attraction before reaching sexual maturity. At what developmental stage sexual orientation first emerges is a question beyond my knowledge base.
(DIR) Post #ABlGeg88clF1BUOI9A by Eleutheromaniac@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:09:34.625560Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Fullycaffeinated @sleepwalker @leznotless We’re back at the political lesbianism debate?
(DIR) Post #ABlGh3WgbrDqKC0TJo by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:14:21.889453Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Eleutheromaniac @leznotless @sleepwalker Apparently so.
(DIR) Post #ABlGi6eOTl0eIv72rA by FemaleIsNotAFeeling@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T17:18:19.265948Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sleepwalker Spinsters:Do you believe sexual orientation is a choice?
(DIR) Post #ABlGi7CmPuW01ZCVSC by sleepwalker@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T17:28:03.619753Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@FemaleIsNotAFeeling boohoo, unlike you I'm okay knowing that my opinion is currently unpopular, and I'm not new to being piled on and bullied. But have at it, "sister", hope it makes you feel better calling the entire site to defend your feelings against a literal single person who disagrees with you.
(DIR) Post #ABlGi7f8iTCTRWT9eq by FemaleIsNotAFeeling@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T17:30:21.663720Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker Why so defensive? I didn't even state my position. I started a poll to get the general consensus. This is not bullying. Grow up!
(DIR) Post #ABlGi87V11swrTjnrU by sleepwalker@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T17:32:37.885855Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@FemaleIsNotAFeeling maybe because I'm not supporting the dominant narrative and I'm getting routinely accused of doing something I always opposed and people get to feel superior at my expense without even knowing what I actually mean all the time? You wouldn't be defensive? And we already know what general consensus is to don't pretend that it's not an attack
(DIR) Post #ABlGi8eT2SFyVjA8FU by FemaleIsNotAFeeling@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T17:38:35.117591Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker Fair, I would probably get defensive in a scenario like you mention above. But the poll was not an attack. The poll is also anonymous-you might have others in the woodwork that vote on your side. Don't always assume everyone is out to get you. If I was out to get you, I would be much more clear about it. And I usually don't go after people anyway...I simply block those that get under my skin, I don't attack them. People who follow me know that. Start shit with me, I will ask younto stop once...maybe twice. Then comes the block. I don't do back and forths. That's extremely rare.
(DIR) Post #ABlGi95lOy5hsNvvnM by sleepwalker@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:04:16.181146Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@FemaleIsNotAFeeling as I said I can't even vote since your version is so simplified it becomes contradictory to my point. People don't get a choice when their orientation develops. Everyone is raised to be straight, but some people were resistant to it from early age. It's a choice to undo the conditioning however. I can even tell of my own experience if you wish
(DIR) Post #ABlGi9aFZcTfOwCHJY by FemaleIsNotAFeeling@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:14:06.200135Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker You can create your own poll exactly how you'd like it to read. No one is stopping you.
(DIR) Post #ABlHGaRCEmoaX7Nh7A by sleepwalker@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:15:58.726135Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Fullycaffeinated @leznotless yes, you would not love women romantically the same way you love men because there's no power imbalance and danger involved. Attack on lesbianism didn't start with sex. It's women in passionate friendships with each other that were first targeted, and their behaviour was classified as sexual by men so sexologists could have a legitimate excuse to start "solving" this problem. Lesbianism was and is a threat not because of sex at all (otherwise men would not like lesbian porn so much), but because these women reject man-loving which is central to patriarchy, central to women's subjugation. A lesbian is a woman who loves women (which implies wishing wellbeing for women, which in turn directly implies opposition to patriarchy) and doesn't love men.
(DIR) Post #ABlHGaysDZkmDZ8abg by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:20:46.309406Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker @leznotless Lesbians don't just love women, they want to have sex with them. I very much do not. And while I am certainly old enough to understand the risks involved with men, they are the only ones that I experience any sexual desire for. Well, not every single one, but you get the gist.
(DIR) Post #ABlHUez28K0agZv1v6 by sleepwalker@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:17:51.709585Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Fullycaffeinated @Radfemmery @leznotless It didn't emerge for me in malestream definition (see person -- get aroused) at all.
(DIR) Post #ABlHUfTWIyOYD8BNRI by Radfemmery@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:20:40.512453Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker @Fullycaffeinated @leznotless I think that definition might be more applicable to men. I remember reading most women usually need more than visual cues to get aroused
(DIR) Post #ABlIBJtUQ2BdjKfRzs by Eleutheromaniac@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:29:08.776114Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Fullycaffeinated @leznotless @sleepwalker I see.
(DIR) Post #ABlIyElYH0zc11HRD6 by Spring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:26:10.555816Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker I read a really great book recently, Loving to Survive by Dee Graham. It proposed that women love men as a full on Stockholm Syndrome response to being trapped in a murderous patriarchy that we can't escape. The mind has to change in that way in order to attempt to survive the experience, physically and psychically.It was a very thought provoking book and made a lot of sense to me. What I took from it was that while I don't agree I could stop being sexually attracted to males, I think that is innate, I could absolutely believe that I might have "fallen in love" with them, been infatuated with them, formed those very powerful emotional attachments to them as a Stockholm Syndrome response to living in a society in which I am inescapably surrounded by the violence and abuse of adult males. I really recommend the book. So I think we need to be clear what we mean by love. I think sexual attraction is innate, but I think those powerful trauma bonds heterosexual women form with men could be broken if we were not trapped in a patriarchy. Then we might well not bother with long term 'romantic' relationships with men, we might focus all our emotional energies onto ourselves and other women, and only interact with males for physical sexual reasons. In much the same way that men secretly reserve all their love and respect for their fraternal relationships, and the contact they seek with women is really just for sex. They can do that because they are not in trauma bond situations with women because we are not the oppressor class - they are.
(DIR) Post #ABlJxS6hHnpV3ZMPY0 by Radfemmery@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:26:05.771874Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Fullycaffeinated @leznotless @sleepwalker What I'm saying is that no one is 100% pre destined to be gay, straight or bisexual. Several things have an influence on how people will grow to be; genetics, homones but also environment
(DIR) Post #ABlJxSdJKXuwgicSNk by FemaleIsNotAFeeling@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:49:39.266564Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@RadfemmeryI always get really nervous when we enter this territory...because this is literally the "genital preferences" argument transgenders use to get lesbians to suck dick etc.They say sexual orientation is a social construct and that lesbians would enjoy sucking "lady cock," if only they would analyze their own "social conditioning" etc. Same for the straights and gays..the trans say the same...that they're all socially conditioned and need to suck lady dick like a real rebel.@Fullycaffeinated @leznotless @sleepwalker
(DIR) Post #ABlKQICXC8tgjRqJsm by Radfemmery@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:53:42.288433Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@FemaleIsNotAFeeling @Fullycaffeinated @leznotless @sleepwalker Their argument is failed simply cause sexual orientation is not a choice. Saying no one is born gay and/or that things other than genetics play a role in sexual orientation is not the same as saying people can choose their sexual orientation
(DIR) Post #ABlRM3ci9UpS2a0xRA by lezpaulguitars@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T19:08:20.892195Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker studies normally stop short because of the ethical implications, but it seems like instead of a singular gay gene there's many genes involved in predicting someone's sexual orientation, which makes sense because its like that for a lot of other characteristics as well. why can't you just call your political lesbianism something else... its not lesbianism because its not sexual and its not romantic love. yes people can love each other platonically but that's not what sexual orientation is. what you're talking about is female solidarity, strong friendships and cohabitation with other women, etc and that's all fine and good and everyone supports that but why do you insist on calling it lesbianism? no one is going to argue that you shouldn't cut men out of your life if you want to or that you shouldn't live with other women... just don't call it lesbianism because its not.
(DIR) Post #ABlRPHlq0exwmnp4Qi by k181@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T16:57:32.479163Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sleepwalker how much did it hurt when you got that lobotomy
(DIR) Post #ABlipCuOPKIYSNlowq by sleepwalker@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T18:34:09.852468Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Spring men "need" to use women for sex because sex is important for "taming" of an individual woman. Men used to be open about that, I mean in their scientific papers and such. Mr Stekel even said "to be roused by a man is to acknowledge oneself as conquered", and in fact women loving straight sex is a very recent thing, female "sexual repression" and "frigidity" were real problems back in the day. They just didn't want it. Were actual straight women born only after sexual relovution?
(DIR) Post #ABlipDOsZygVyw2AT2 by Antiquixotic@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T19:10:35.792010Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker @Spring I’d be quite interested in those papers! Can you suggest some reading on this? I would be very grateful. I have my own experiences and opinions, of course, but I’d really like to have sourced, random samples that give concrete, broad research/observations on this, beyond opinions, etc. It’s such a difficult topic to not have biases due to its very personal, sensitive, intimate subject matter.
(DIR) Post #ABlipDqWvAnpMgyFZA by Spring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T19:42:04.542393Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Antiquixotic @sleepwalker If you look at @yishengqingwa666 's profile, she helpfully has a free PDF of Graham's Loving to Survive available to link to in her pinned posts. It is a really interesting thesis.
(DIR) Post #ABlipELj3BkwvRZABs by GalacticTurtle@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T22:43:55.154708Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Spring @Antiquixotic @sleepwalker @yishengqingwa666 A lot of interesting/complex stuff is being touched on here. I do have some general thoughts about it. Hopefully, I can articulate it well. I really don't know anything about stuff like the development of sexuality/sexual behavior, I just assume that for a large portion of the population this emerges and doesn't go through any major changes past the onset of puberty. I also assume that the vast majority of people experience romantic feelings that lead to a desire for partnership with those they are also sexually attracted to. Personally, I’ve always wondered about the connection between sexual attraction and partnership. Obviously when put in the context of… what the world is, the fight for marriage equality, and all that, it’s safe to say that forming those partnerships on a personal level and then being socially recognized and accepted as partners carries importance… at least when it is tied to one’s sexuality. But take away the sexual component (often presumed because no one really knows if any two people are having sex with each other), and professed partnerships are often mocked, delegitimized, and even called unhealthy. Sure it makes sense that most people would prefer a picture perfect romance, maybe only partially because that’s what we’re advertised from the second we’re conceived. But I do wonder how the choices people make would be impacted if platonic or otherwise nonsexual partnerships were really out there as an option. Mainly from straight women, I’ve heard sentiments expressed like “I wish we could be like… life roommates” or lots of people being envious of stories of two friends becoming neighbors or a group of friends buying a huge house to live together in or two old ladies in the neighborhood who share a lifelong friendship. I’ve mentioned this before but someone once interviewed all these elderly people asking them what their biggest regret in life was and the most common answer had to do with not keeping in touch with friends or not investing enough time into friendships. So… maybe I’m just super off the mark because I am the way I am, but I do wonder how much the prioritization/centralization of sex has to maybe do with a world controlled by men... most of whom want sex from women.
(DIR) Post #ABlipEqvBCi4UCA4oa by lezpaulguitars@spinster.xyz
2021-09-26T23:28:22.250436Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@GalacticTurtle I think it possibly has less to do with the centralization of sex and more to do with the way women are taught to view other women as competition and always prioritize men, men's wants, men's needs... female solidarity is also demonized and mocked. Its no coincidence that a romantic partnership with a man is pushed onto young girls as their main goal in life, because in patriarchy women exist to please men. People have had platonic partnerships in the past and continue to do so today, there's friends that remain friends for life and put their friendship before romantic partnerships. I think these are an option but obviously not the most common occurrence. I'm not sure that sex being prioritized less would help that situation that much... I think misogyny is more of an issue than the focus on sex although they are related.
(DIR) Post #ABmSvqjXqc9PbJnlZ2 by sleepwalker@spinster.xyz
2021-09-27T04:59:00.980064Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lezpaulguitars the latest largest study on that matter explicitly said that they're findings are NOT sufficient to predict orientation. So still no gene, just usual confirmation bias. Also why did you decide that I'm unable to have romantic or sexual feelings? I am and I do. Of course it doesn't make me identical to a lifelong lesbian but if we're comparing then it makes me more of a lesbian than the one who came out at 30, after being married and having children, and these cases are just fine with LGB community.
(DIR) Post #ABmSvrE21GXN7s475E by lezpaulguitars@spinster.xyz
2021-09-27T07:28:04.671830Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@sleepwalker if you have romantic and sexual feelings for women and none for men then you are a lesbian... but sexual orientation isn't a choice that someone makes and if it feels like one and you do also have romantic and sexual feelings for men, then you're probably bisexual, and its okay to be bisexual.
(DIR) Post #ABmbbS2Sqsyuo6013Y by sleepwalker@spinster.xyz
2021-09-27T05:04:05.315004Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Antiquixotic @Spring abovementioned Steker and Ellis are good examples of sexologists, but I'd actually recommend Jeffrey's "Anticlimax" and "Lesbian Heresy", they're not just opinion pieces, she references and quotes someone or something almost every other page so there's enough links in one book to research it all personally if you want. Anticlimax is about construction of heterosexual desire and how it's tied to patriarchy and it was the book that peaked me on this matter, Lesbian heresy outlines the history of what we now call LGBT and development of it's narrative, in fact most of my point are from there
(DIR) Post #ABn88pbDTMLPy5DNlQ by snerber@spinster.xyz
2021-09-27T15:45:57.286460Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@FemaleIsNotAFeeling The "genital preferences" argument doesn't eradicate anybody's right and ability to be unattracted to somebody and say no, despite its obvious goal being otherwise. I understand how young women can be coerced due to their social circle and other factors, but I've been heterosexual all my life and I wouldn't go near anybody with a "ladydick." Not to toot my own horn or anything.A lot of males are conditioned to try to get anything they can out of any available female. Females who've been starting to do this, including but not limited to TIFs, I think are trying to access male privilege by emulating male typical behavior.@Radfemmery @Fullycaffeinated @leznotless @sleepwalker