Post AAvHEvL0MeMoSwylQu by GrumpyOldNurse@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by GrumpyOldNurse@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #AAur5QOVRdDb58QVua by Gelatinousrube@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T11:22:27.138463Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
I get that people are literally administering the animal formulation of ivermectin to themselves, but greater social media is making me realize that people aren't aware ivermectin is an actual drug that other countries are using to treat/prevent covid.I've heard a lot about Americans having their heads up their asses deliberately but this is the worst case of two different timelines I have ever seen. I really thought most people were capable of stepping outside of Google/fb *if they wanted to*. So that's my ignorance showing.I would love to know what the reporting is from other countries using ivermectin who are watching us take repeated shots and then being all surprised that we're not immune.
(DIR) Post #AAurPfX4s2m1p95a0e by mittimithai@neenster.org
2021-09-01T11:26:05.598124Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gelatinousrube there is no credible effort to treat COVID-19 with ivermectin.
(DIR) Post #AAurbHoKtQOFjAhWs4 by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T11:28:12.436195Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gelatinousrube Your wish is my command...https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/31/a-human-is-not-a-horse-so-why-is-a-livestock-drug-sweeping-america-covid-ivermectin
(DIR) Post #AAurhmiEujy9Ixwqoq by Gelatinousrube@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T11:29:23.045190Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Clariana ah nice
(DIR) Post #AAuro25geRfojktXay by Gelatinousrube@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T11:30:30.648719Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mittimithai ok what about what's happening in other countries though? Central American countries, Mexico, India?
(DIR) Post #AAussId3ClGN8q6Bvs by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T11:42:29.568526Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Gelatinousrube I caught a news item about vets and vet supply places in Alberta being flooded with requests for it, to the extent that they have mostly stopped selling it. The issue isn't really the formulation, it's the dose. My sister had a cat years ago who was diabetic. He was prescribed the exact same meds as my dad, but the dose was very different for a cat and a human 10X his weight. And it wasn't just a matter of dividing the dose by 10 (I think it was 4, but it's been a while). Different species metabolise meds differently.I too would like to see studies on this and other meds. But I can't get behind buying meds from vets and giving them to humans without knowing how to properly adjust doses (and being sure of the efficacy).
(DIR) Post #AAutSd6KZCmd3n7NE8 by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T11:46:58.676798Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube “ But I can’t get behind buying meds from vets and giving them to humans without knowing how to properly adjust doses (and being sure of the efficacy).” This and 😬
(DIR) Post #AAutZBQvpiV5HFsYhk by GrumpyOldNurse@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T11:50:14.127231Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@HebrideanHecate @Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube exactly. If you think invermectin is effective in treating covid, please petition for an actual study...
(DIR) Post #AAuvDCH2EBmvQAtSuO by HSTG@freeatlantis.com
2021-09-01T12:08:40Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Gelatinousrube Ivermectin may also be used for horses and warfarin is also used for...........ANYBODY?
(DIR) Post #AAuvOu1XuEm6INELYm by Gelatinousrube@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T12:10:47.544129Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@HSTG oh shit as a pesticide?
(DIR) Post #AAuvQqFAvoyl9OWvSq by FeartnTired@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T12:03:07.321560Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@GrumpyOldNurse @HebrideanHecate @Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube I think they've started one in NHS England?I'm still feeling paranoid about it being the meds I am on/was offered for New Disease. I turned down the Soolantra (using metronizadole, but not all the time, cannae be bothered) because 'toxic build up' on top of same for Hydroxy seemed like a bad idea.Now hands up who thinks Omeprazole will cure Covid.
(DIR) Post #AAuvfRRBRXJsYi6nKK by Gelatinousrube@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T12:13:46.684166Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@FeartnTired @GrumpyOldNurse @Fullycaffeinated @HebrideanHecate I hope there will be studies on everything! I am interested in results. I was reading about ivermectin and dengue fever yesterday and I wish I understood more. I didn't know until very recently that it is used against many things and is not just hurf derf horse paste. I wish Americans could believe authorities here but I understand why many do not.
(DIR) Post #AAuvjARsY68F1lD6yu by HSTG@freeatlantis.com
2021-09-01T12:14:26Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gelatinousrube Close, RAT POISON.
(DIR) Post #AAuxZzD9A1KhTc4Msq by polarisera@gleasonator.com
2021-09-01T12:35:11.652525Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@GrumpyOldNurse @HebrideanHecate @Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube Actual study? Find a country that doesn't cuddle the balls of Big Pharma. There have been many, many studies.
(DIR) Post #AAuyeTSajkuKPAzuEa by polarisera@gleasonator.com
2021-09-01T12:47:12.575867Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@GrumpyOldNurse @Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube @HebrideanHecate Agriculture (and EPA as bad as it is), actually have real scientific method. When they study a drug, supplement or toxin, they break animals into at least 4 groups. One is control, the next three get progressively larger doses. This is because they want to know dosage/response curves. Like real science. Funny that the FDA and Big Pharma don't want dosage/response curves. In fact, when "studying" supplements and cheap drugs they usually chose just two groups, the control and the mega-dosed or micro-dosed. Which ever result they want. Funny that. Designing the outcome.Almost all drugs tested on humans have noticeable effects and side-effects, placebos are a joke. Splitting trials 4-ways would also neutralize some of the placebo effect because 3 groups would now be taking the drug. Secondly, they always get to excluded drop-outs from treatment. Oopsie.But hey, agriculture has a bottom line for the discipline of truth. Drug companies pay for theirs.
(DIR) Post #AAuzd5zUbsABHTIFG4 by polarisera@gleasonator.com
2021-09-01T12:58:09.495499Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube @GrumpyOldNurse @HebrideanHecate The thorough lack of scientific method, censoring of critics, destroying of careers, lack of oversight, corruption, revolving doors, bribery, deliberate off-label campaigns, the lack of methodology and system to report side-effects (including suicide) has long, long, long been documented.
(DIR) Post #AAv2XV1guoqx3HLR3I by blingring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T12:33:32.105155Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mittimithai Um, that's simply untrue. Why do you think that? @Gelatinousrube
(DIR) Post #AAv2XVUPC3p0UKmMoC by mittimithai@neenster.org
2021-09-01T13:30:45.621396Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@blingring @Gelatinousrube What I'm saying is certainly true. What evidence are you aware of?
(DIR) Post #AAv2kkHLWCCQ7Zz1w8 by mittimithai@neenster.org
2021-09-01T13:33:09.577613Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gelatinousrube What about them? People prescribe pretend medicine all the time. Do any of these countries have good evidence it works? Look up what happened in Goa.
(DIR) Post #AAv3yUgCPcMPkXjBdw by GCat@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T13:46:52.064885Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gelatinousrube @FeartnTired @Fullycaffeinated @GrumpyOldNurse @HebrideanHecate Here’s a compilation of the studies that have been done: https://c19ivermectin.com/
(DIR) Post #AAv4yShnqsUba61iXw by blingring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T13:55:52.472956Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mittimithai @Gelatinousrube See my other response on this thread with links.
(DIR) Post #AAv52QxEIx09JB8VkG by mittimithai@neenster.org
2021-09-01T13:58:45.792308Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@blingring @Gelatinousrube I am aware of the Oxford PRINCIPLE *trial*. That's not evidence Ivermectin works, that's asking the question if it does. Almost all such trials fail. There is no good evidence Ivermectin works.
(DIR) Post #AAvHEvL0MeMoSwylQu by GrumpyOldNurse@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T16:15:29.499407Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@polarisera @Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube @HebrideanHecate then, those are the results we should be integrating, not just people buying stuff from vets.
(DIR) Post #AAvHUNy8CGtJbieXQG by blingring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T12:41:44.984655Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gelatinousrube @FeartnTired @Fullycaffeinated @GrumpyOldNurse @HebrideanHecate For those with more questions, resources that may be of interest. Many, many countries have used ivermectin protocols during the pandemic for treatment. 1. Tess Laury and Co. Plenty of resources including meta analysis work. https://bird-group.org/health-professionals-resources/2. Oxford University announced a study in June. https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-23-ivermectin-be-investigated-possible-treatment-covid-19-oxford-s-principle-trial3. https://covid19criticalcare.com/
(DIR) Post #AAvHUjp0wqfdNoYZGa by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T12:45:15.266216Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@blingring @Gelatinousrube @FeartnTired @Fullycaffeinated @GrumpyOldNurse What bothers me is if there are people who think they canjust neck pills at random and not take into account dosage, contraindications and etc etc which goes along with it all.
(DIR) Post #AAvIlukTfwsq9JBlEe by polarisera@gleasonator.com
2021-09-01T16:32:39.860229Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@GrumpyOldNurse @Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube @HebrideanHecate Notice how doctors are SMEARED with "promoting" ivermectin, yet those doctors DEMANDING FORCEFUL MANDATORY VACCINES are praised for defeating the mystical, troony and paid-for words 'vaccine hesitancy" (yes, they are paid, they are on the take).
(DIR) Post #AAvJgpI8da5JjM4SVk by polarisera@gleasonator.com
2021-09-01T16:42:56.304592Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@GrumpyOldNurse @Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube @HebrideanHecate These are the last dying days of the Human Moron and his masters. Ai and NLP are giving us the tools to dissect paid propaganda, paid lies and bias. Pass a few laws, repeal some others, and the lies will be laid bare -- and the people will reign again for a generation -- until they fall asleep again.
(DIR) Post #AAvV9LTdfIDB9kFfO4 by blingring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T16:40:19.132518Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mittimithai @Gelatinousrube which of the papers / analysis on the BIRD site do you find a lack of evidence for?
(DIR) Post #AAvV9MAB78EtHg9dh2 by mittimithai@neenster.org
2021-09-01T18:51:20.353760Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@blingring @Gelatinousrube It's quite burdensome to sort through that list of low quality and show the standard shenanigans. Retrospective, retrospective, in silico...etc.There is nothing there that is compelling at all. It's easy to put up lots of papers on something like that site is doing and make it seem like there is something legitimate there, but there really isn't. Why don't you pick the strongest paper out of there, and I can probably tell you why it isn't very high quality.
(DIR) Post #AAvdHLgrYTnvlelSJE by blingring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T20:21:36.314676Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mittimithai Are you a medical professional? @Gelatinousrube
(DIR) Post #AAvdHM9voP3ZDoMfcO by mittimithai@neenster.org
2021-09-01T20:22:26.107519Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@blingring @Gelatinousrube Judge my expertise after you put up what you think is the strongest paper. Don't worry about what degree I have.
(DIR) Post #AAvgEy5GeTV1pxjgqO by blingring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T20:23:23.197757Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mittimithai No, thanks. @Gelatinousrube
(DIR) Post #AAvgEybWiXItS0pS7s by Moonbuggy@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T20:50:40.210558Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@blingring @mittimithai @Gelatinousrube My husband is a Neurologist, throw up the strongest evidence and I'll have him look at it tonight. Thx.
(DIR) Post #AAviCD32l7BrHrVYUy by blingring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T21:08:17.235031Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Moonbuggy I'm not going to debate random people on the internet. I have shared some starting points. I will, however, keep an open mind to possibilities and other views, including taking the time to listen to a woman who is consultant and analyst for the WHO, whose peer-reviewed publications have received thousands of citations and whose job it is to look at medical data analysis. Along with many others. It's not my job to do your homework. @Gelatinousrube @mittimithai
(DIR) Post #AAviCDaiju82yJGRzU by mittimithai@neenster.org
2021-09-01T21:17:31.623203Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@blingring @Moonbuggy @Gelatinousrube But you responded to my post, you seemed to want to talk to random people on the internet. Anyone can point at these weird websites, it doesn't mean that those websites are credible, correct or even withstand the slightest scrutiny. Being an analyst for the WHO is not a big deal, lots of people are. I presume you are talking about this person (why not mention her actual name?):https://www.linkedin.com/in/jchamieWhere do you see she has 1000s of cites? Even if she did, that's not especially impressive. I can show you lots fo science fraudsters with 1000s of cites. Judge your sources based on critically assessing what they are saying, things like number of cites etc. are secondary to applying some basic critical thinking to the underlying claims.
(DIR) Post #AAvio9EjNW3YTD46Fs by blingring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T21:23:52.866819Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mittimithai No, that is not the woman who setup BIRD. Which I shared the link to and who you can take a look at it if you are so inclined. You made a statement, it's wrong, I shared some information to show you there is at least one group of people who have and continue to study the potential use of ivermectin as a preventative and treatment for Covid19. If you can't be arsed to spend more than ten minutes looking at what they are saying, I can't be arsed to talk to people who can't be arsed. That's my red line. Cheers. 👍@Gelatinousrube @Moonbuggy
(DIR) Post #AAvjol4KooMBl83c0W by mittimithai@neenster.org
2021-09-01T21:35:41.928886Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@blingring @Gelatinousrube @Moonbuggy Now you are being evasive, you didn't say that you were talking about the person who setup BIRD. Who exactly are you talking about? https://bird-group.org/who-are-bird/Lawrie has 4.7k cites...big deal. Nothing about what she is saying on that silly site inspires confidence.My claim is correct: Now you are weaseling with the use of "potential", a standard trick. Potentiate all you like, right now there is no good evidence for Ivermectin for covid-19.
(DIR) Post #AAvkMZ0EBeTiBMFvbU by blingring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-01T21:39:37.395818Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mittimithai You're completely right. Bye 👋@Gelatinousrube @Moonbuggy
(DIR) Post #AAvkMZUiMIrfhuWH7g by mittimithai@neenster.org
2021-09-01T21:41:47.806352Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@blingring @Gelatinousrube @Moonbuggy Your actual quote:"I will, however, keep an open mind to possibilities and other views, including taking the time to listen to a woman who is consultant and analyst for the WHO, whose peer-reviewed publications have received thousands of citations and whose job it is to look at medical data analysis."You aren't being very clear about who you are talking about there.
(DIR) Post #AAw28guXmlbtpX8FbU by Mariposa@spinster.xyz
2021-09-02T01:00:15.295073Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Fullycaffeinated It's not just the dosage; it's that there is no evidence yet that Ivermectin is effective for treating or preventing covid 19. Here's an article that describes and links to a review of 14 studies that arrived at that conclusion."A recent review of 14 ivermectin studies, with more than 1,600 participants, concluded that none provided evidence of the drug’s ability to prevent Covid, improve patient conditions or reduce mortality. Another 31 studies are still underway to test the drug.“There is great interest in repurposing well-known inexpensive drugs such as ivermectin that are readily available as an oral tablet,” Maria-Inti Metzendorf and Stephanie Weibel, the authors of the review, said in an email to The Times. “Even if these circumstances seem ideal, the results from the available clinical studies carried out so far cannot confirm the widely advertised benefits.”One of the largest trials studying ivermectin for Covid-19 treatment, called the Together Trial, was halted by the data safety monitoring board on Aug. 6 because the drug had been shown to be no better than a placebo at preventing hospitalization or prolonged stay in the emergency room. Dr. Edward Mills, a professor at McMaster University who led the study, which enrolled more than 1,300 patients, said the team would have discontinued it earlier were it not for the level of public interest in ivermectin."https://archive.is/p5d8L#selection-579.0-601.414@Gelatinousrube
(DIR) Post #AAw4GFiAzpSphJ53Im by Moonbuggy@spinster.xyz
2021-09-02T00:19:20.520983Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@blingring @Gelatinousrube @mittimithai "I'm not going to debate random people on the internet"I wasn't looking for a debate, just genuinely interested in examining the claims you are making. You asked if another poster was a doctor, well I have a very well qualified and experienced one in my home who would be happy to look over the medical evidence you have and give a professional opinion. That seems like a risk-free offer, especially as we are all just "random people on the internet".
(DIR) Post #AAwBpFsX4BO21vYuTw by Linnas@spinster.xyz
2021-09-02T01:56:41.649402Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Mariposa Studies that came out this August: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301462221001599https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167732221020080https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2052297521000883https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Citation/9000/Pitfalls_in_Reporting_Sample_Size_Calculation.98005.aspxhttps://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.10.21261855v1July:https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-021-06348-5https://www.ajol.info/index.php/ajcem/article/view/209853https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.06.21259924v1https://www.scitechnol.com/abstract/virtual-screening-reveals-potential-antiparasitic-drugs-inhibiting-the-receptor-binding-domain-of-sarscov2-spike-protein-16398.htmlhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567576921006408https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.21.21260223v1I could keep going, but the overall picture should be clear.The study you cited is based on a small selective subset of available studies, with a majority of results based on only 1 or 2 studies (more than 100 are currently available). For example, the authors excluded many treatment studies by requiring results at exactly 28 days and all prophylaxis studies by requiring results at exactly 14 days. Studies comparing ivermectin with other medications and studies used combined treatment were also excluded.https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD015017.pub2/full@Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube
(DIR) Post #AAwBpGLxImvFVBKPLM by Mariposa@spinster.xyz
2021-09-02T02:33:26.416608Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Linnas This (linked study with the image) is not a study of the effects on humans of using Ivermectin for treatment or prevention of covid 19. It's a biochemistry study to further understanding of a possible theoretical effect. The authors do not make any definitive conclusions. They conclude: "The theoretical behavior of these homologs could contribute to the possible reported multi-target ivermectin activity. However, it is necessary to carry out experimental demonstrations to corroborate this differential behavior, as well as its clinical relevance." Also, it's not clear to me that this is a peer-reviewed study. The journal says the review turn-around time is 3 weeks. When I was a journal editor (in the social sciences), we could never get three reviewers to complete their reviews that quickly, so I'm thinking it's just editorial, not peer-reviewed. Of course, my experience was many years ago. @Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube
(DIR) Post #AAwzdE6mojPAm0gfB2 by Linnas@spinster.xyz
2021-09-02T09:38:40.547187Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Mariposa You are missing the point entirely.You decisively stated that “that there is no evidence yet that Ivermectin is effective for treating or preventing covid 19” citing a paper that is based on a small selective subset of available studies, with a majority of results based on only 1 or 2 studies (with over 100 actually available) and with the authors who didn’t disclose their financial bias (https://www.cochrane.org/news/cochrane-announces-support-new-donor)I cited 11 papers, some peer-reviewed and some preprints, covering the subject from different angles that came out in July and August only. The study you are trying to criticize was focused on trying to find out possible mechanisms on why it is effective against COVID-19. An interesting study to conduct in 2020 for something that supposedly has no evidence of its efficiency. Anyway, the volume of available evidence is huge, and if you want to make a statement on ivermectin, please, do that using the whole body of evidence.As for your peer-review remark, since it seems to be an indicator of quality for you, Biophysical Chemistry is peer-reviewed journal, and the paper in questions was received on 29 April 2021 and revised on 13 August 2021. That said, I have personally had a paper sent, revised, accepted, and published online within a month in a peer-reviewed journal.@Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube
(DIR) Post #AAwzdEmGKWa8qe5mpE by Mariposa@spinster.xyz
2021-09-02T11:47:13.884053Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Linnas YOU are missing the point. The "subset of studies" paper looked looked at a subset of small studies focused on the topic at hand in this thread - whether or not Ivermectin is effective for treatment of covid 19. In turn you cite a theoretical biochemistry paper that concludes that experimental and clinical studies are needed. And that concludes my participation in this thread. 🙋♀️@Fullycaffeinated @Gelatinousrube
(DIR) Post #AAxEZ4NAZTm2jTpH6m by blingring@spinster.xyz
2021-09-02T07:35:12.883702Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Moonbuggy I am not the one making claims. I shared that there are others that are and provided some initial links with more information for those that want to read about it. The Bird site has a few papers if you want to look in more detail. I am not a scientist so asking me to pick the best one is pointless - I wouldn't know. What they have is publicly available for whomever wants to take a look. @Gelatinousrube @mittimithai
(DIR) Post #AAxEZ4rIlRsQEvvL4i by mittimithai@neenster.org
2021-09-02T14:54:55.097526Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@blingring @Moonbuggy @Gelatinousrube you certainly made a claim that I was wrong about there being no good evidence for ivermectin treating covid. It's so puzzling to see people make such claims whole admitting they don't have a good understanding of the evidence.
(DIR) Post #AAxIfb9g02m5xXspWq by Mariposa@spinster.xyz
2021-09-02T01:03:28.732990Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@HSTG It was originally invented as rat poison.@Gelatinousrube