Post AASEkXbm2HnI8cIrp2 by rastinza@mastodon.uno
(DIR) More posts by rastinza@mastodon.uno
(DIR) Post #AAQ01BV9auTgrxlV7w by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-17T14:03:49Z
6 likes, 7 repeats
I keep seeing open source projects saying "join the conversation" on discord or "stay up to date" with a link to twitter or a facebook group. Have we really failed on messaging so hard that no one understands the cognitive dissonance at play here? Or is it really just that Matrix is that bad, and the fediverse is that obscure?
(DIR) Post #AAQ02cJBPcmiIbqhKC by izaya@social.shadowkat.net
2021-08-17T14:06:44.175527Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 I suspect part of it is developers not wanting to leave what they use for "entertainment"
(DIR) Post #AAQ5pSnw2IkumdLP3Q by Stellar@fedi.absturztau.be
2021-08-17T15:11:35.720901Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 "Or is it really just that Matrix is that bad, and the fediverse is that obscure?" yes
(DIR) Post #AAQ96ApwOO2tqKwT3Y by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-17T14:07:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I'm trying to get our media messaging set up for the maker space, and I keep finding temptations to reach for propritary crap, but ... Why? Why would I set up a discord server when, as far as I can tell, Matrix will be fine. Why would I use youtube when I can own my own peertube infrastructure? (And when yunohost exists to handle SSO and updates, I don't even have to do any real work to use it!) Why would I ever let someone make money off of the private data of our members?
(DIR) Post #AAQ96BMuPoPvUaMnRY by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-17T15:41:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Maybe I have overestimated how ideologically aligned the various free software movements actually are.
(DIR) Post #AAQ96Bnqndy4q8yJRA by gedvondur@hulvr.com
2021-08-17T15:47:53Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ajroach42 And as much as I hate to admit it, mastodon and most of the activitypub decentralized software is really really niche and almost completely unknown outside a certain group. My peer group is pretty tech oriented....and they have only vaguely heard of mastodon. Peertube and matrix might as well be on the moon to them.
(DIR) Post #AAQ97bHHZSCk8cPXtI by stunder@mastodon.sdf.org
2021-08-17T15:48:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gedvondur @ajroach42 We got them just where we want them now ;)
(DIR) Post #AAQ9AQq4q31EdD2IvA by gedvondur@hulvr.com
2021-08-17T15:48:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stunder @ajroach42 I've been doing light evangelizing about Mastodon...no takers so far. 😞
(DIR) Post #AAQ9XwDWLEUmbqD6FE by stunder@mastodon.sdf.org
2021-08-17T15:53:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gedvondur @ajroach42 Ive done full blown posting about it, loaded it on peoples phones, and even built accounts/servers for people. The hive only likes what it's told to like I guess. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
(DIR) Post #AAQ9pERlogrE4T7cHo by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-17T15:56:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stunder @gedvondur I've had a decent success rate pulling folks over. More lurkers than posters, but they're around. A sizable chunk of my coworkers are users on various servers, some of them will even occasionally mention seeing things I've posted boosted across their timelines (but they have the good sense not to tell me their handles. :-D) The real downfall, for me, is Chat.
(DIR) Post #AAQBmFfL1orUtIAtc0 by stunder@mastodon.sdf.org
2021-08-17T16:18:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 @gedvondur This is why i keep about 3 handles on 3 different servers. Then my coworkers never know the "real" me :)
(DIR) Post #AAQSpb6FUZ1PSNwXNA by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-17T19:01:45Z
5 likes, 2 repeats
I figured out why this bothers me. I do my best to live my values. To live my life in a way that is commiserate with the things I believe. I use the fediverse because it is commiserate with my values. I use peertube because it is commiserate with my values. Using discord to discuss free culture would be like using facebook to organize an antitrust enforcement action.
(DIR) Post #AAQSpc49towaSByNkm by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-17T19:02:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I've written frequently about the intersection of my interests and values and the way I use the internet and technology: Digital archival: http://ajroach42.com/thoughts-on-digital-preservation/and http://ajroach42.com/document-your-art-archive-your-art/DIY Media: http://ajroach42.com/diy-media/Andhttp://ajroach42.com/videofreex-early-diy-media-and-the-future/and http://ajroach42.com/revisiting-subject-to-change-guerrilla-television-revisited/
(DIR) Post #AAQSpdDPctwM1BJHoe by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-17T19:25:15Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Which is to say that every choice is a political choice, an economic choice, a moral choice. Every proprietary tool we normalize helps build or enforce a monopoly. Every piece of DRM we accept is a blow to the right to repair, the right to own anything. There are often good, valid reasons for doing this. There are also lots not great, but easy to justify reasons. I feel a screed coming on, I should probably stop that.
(DIR) Post #AAQXuPVGXCHqi3l78y by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2021-08-17T20:26:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 @stunder @gedvondur speaking of Downfall, someone should make a version of the angry Hitler scene that is about federated chat.(To be clear, I'm not trying to make fun of your issue - I too don't like the hypocrisy of FOSS projects using proprietary platforms for developmeer communication and coordination.But I also see a meme opportunity here, and I can't just ignore it.)
(DIR) Post #AAQY7TSR8xJOjqfIBs by gedvondur@hulvr.com
2021-08-17T20:28:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @ajroach42 @stunder Well of course! 😃
(DIR) Post #AAQb0VCyXIN00Gng9o by freakazoid@retro.social
2021-08-17T20:53:31Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@craigmaloney @ajroach42 I just find it disappointing that we've replaced an open, asynchronous system with a proprietary, synchronous one.The Internet has mutated from a collection of open protocols anyone could implement to a collection of closed "apps" that can only be implemented with hundreds of millions in VC investment with the expectation of pumping the company's valuation and dumping it on the public.
(DIR) Post #AAQb7QQygVTVDveQ2i by freakazoid@retro.social
2021-08-17T20:41:56Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@craigmaloney @ajroach42 Weird how FLOSS was able to get so far just using mailing lists, and now that Discord exists collaboration is suddenly completely impossible without it.
(DIR) Post #AAQgleF3Gc0vOx4V72 by ishara@social.isharacomix.org
2021-08-17T14:13:26Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@ajroach42 I remember being in the position where I was worried about friction of joining. Joining discord servers has effectively become frictionless, while making a matrix account is somehow too much to ask people to do.Nowadays, I've started thinking that maybe having a small barrier to entry as a litmus test isn't the end of the world. If I can't engage them enough to keep them logged into Matrix, maybe we aren't right for each other.
(DIR) Post #AAQgmKbrkBDcns4JVI by nik@letsalllovela.in
2021-08-17T22:05:36.553510Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 matrix's community (grouping together channels and users) support was completely broken last I checked, and it is also generally really buggy ("joining this room fails sometimes, just keep retrying until it does" -room description I saw recently)also xmpp has no good clients for macos, windows, or iOS, and irc is too lacking in critical features for many like multi device support
(DIR) Post #AAQgoGOCPFaYIEb5rU by nik@letsalllovela.in
2021-08-17T22:05:58.170430Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 decentralized chat is unfortunately still very broken
(DIR) Post #AAQiMXfGmcv1fhUVfs by rude@kys.moe
2021-08-17T22:23:21.617843Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nik @ajroach42 Its in a much better state, but running synapse for a larger userbase is absolutely a fuck show.
(DIR) Post #AAQiYlma7R9qvsk3JA by nik@letsalllovela.in
2021-08-17T22:25:34.214549Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rude @ajroach42 I used to run synapse for 10 users and it would randomly spike in ram usage till it got OOM killed (on a 4gb system) lmao
(DIR) Post #AAQkx3eJXhSVCfaGrw by avocatto@mk.paritybit.ca
2021-08-17T14:10:55.504Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42@retro.social Well I mean... Matrix is that bad and the Fediverse is that obscure, yes.We have failed at messaging. Specifically, if we wanted more people to use FOSS platforms then they need to be marketed and pushed harder. "Build it and they will come" doesn't really work.
(DIR) Post #AARNojqNBvyDfoFSaG by mdhughes@appdot.net
2021-08-18T01:14:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 Discord has better UX, so it will generally win:1. An excellent on-boarding process, click/type a short link and you're joined to the right channel. Matrix: Much more complex, even choosing an app is difficult.2. Isolated, mostly secure groups, but you keep your identity & avatar.3. Voice & video chat, bots, and multimedia behave consistently.
(DIR) Post #AARNokKrMaMBCMVo6S by mdhughes@appdot.net
2021-08-18T01:18:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 I just checked in Element for the first time in months. The old channels I was on are gone except #lisp is arguing about French. Zero desire to interact with this.Now, I am also on several #libera IRC channels, but the UX there is even worse and I can't easily use it from my phone. IRC doesn't have logs unless someone sets them up in a bot, no multimedia at all.Why would any normal person choose not-Discord? What can you offer them that's better?
(DIR) Post #AARNoknvcVboeW71Pc by alrs@lsngl.us
2021-08-18T06:07:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mdhughes @ajroach42 Run your IRC client on a shell somewhere, and use a bouncer. Or just use mosh, and commandeer the client from whatever device you're using. https://github.com/alrs/moshtakeover
(DIR) Post #AARP4l3OYnRo0uXevQ by mdhughes@appdot.net
2021-08-18T06:21:47Z
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@alrs @ajroach42 Yes that's a fantastic UX and exactly what I would recommend to a casual user. 🙄I'm capable of that, and I find it intolerable; so I keep LimeChat on desktop. Giving a normal person that option or Discord is no choice at all.
(DIR) Post #AARPJeu7hr3VHjJIky by alrs@lsngl.us
2021-08-18T06:24:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mdhughes @ajroach42 At this point I'm pretty indifferent. I remember meeting random non-technical teenagers of two genders on EFNET back in the '90s from multiple continents. I guess I've become "that guy" in that if you can't handle using a terminal I don't really feel like I'm going to miss meeting you.
(DIR) Post #AASDrVRAPFxVTf6DaK by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-18T15:50:51Z
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@alrs @mdhughes That's great advice for someone technical. That's not what this discussion is really about. I'm trying to find the intersection of free technology and free culture. Most folks in the DIY Media movement aren't especially technical.
(DIR) Post #AASERFEi7OhfekJYpM by kelbot@retro.social
2021-08-17T14:12:12Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 The only reason I can come up with is wanting to reach the largest number of people and laziness. Where the laziness comes in is there is nothing stopping projects from doing their core chat and messaging on open platforms and setting up something automated to spit announcements and what not to the big proprietary platforms.
(DIR) Post #AASEbiyCQLiMllaYKm by Ethancdavenport@retro.social
2021-08-17T14:14:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 can you look me up a matrix client for ios?
(DIR) Post #AASEkXbm2HnI8cIrp2 by rastinza@mastodon.uno
2021-08-17T14:16:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 It's easier as those are full of support and very known, moreover you do not have the responsability to explain to your customers how to use them.Get a group of 80 years old and set up a matrix server for them to talk, if you want them to use it you will probably spend most of your work day doing technical assistance.
(DIR) Post #AASEosdVnQ1GVuBYNU by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-17T15:06:39Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kelbot POSSE
(DIR) Post #AASHsbHaYeqriHOdou by dredmorbius@toot.cat
2021-08-17T19:27:37Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 NB: "commensurate"
(DIR) Post #AASHtYDjQdp6VP2tV2 by shapr@recurse.social
2021-08-17T19:28:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 I told my uncle this same thing in ~2000 when I dumped windows.He said he'd switch if Linux ever got traction, and I told him: "The best way to predict the future is to invent it." -- Alan Kay
(DIR) Post #AASHtZREtuDqHaNCC0 by shapr@recurse.social
2021-08-17T19:29:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ajroach42 At the time my uncle said "Windows will always be there, you'll never have to learn anything else". Nowadays my uncle wishes he had learned Linux twenty years ago.Linux has been far more learning-stable than Windows.
(DIR) Post #AAST8wMF4HtTCnZDhg by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-17T20:54:48Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@freakazoid @craigmaloney this is the crux of my argument. Thanks for putting it so succinctly.
(DIR) Post #AASapLZIQRhjEhqDJY by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-18T15:56:59Z
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Several folks pointed out to me that this problem extends to github, and always has, but more so now that github is a microsoft product. That's true! Other folks tried to make the argument that any public web hosting was also bad, and that everything should be self hosted and ... I mean, yeah, if you can do it, go for it. But also, public web hosting is cheap and moving between hosts is possible. Don't overstretch.
(DIR) Post #AASapM2MgMxMgrRQci by ND3JR@social.coop
2021-08-18T19:54:38Z
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@ajroach42 I joined a Mastodon instance that's a cooperative for a reason: to have the advantages of people pooling their resources instead of self-hosting while having part ownership and a say in how the instance is run. I'd love to see more cooperative projects like social.coop in terms of hosting, and I know there are people here on social.coop who are working to make that happen.
(DIR) Post #AASapMVQwID0912dvs by ajroach42@retro.social
2021-08-18T19:55:27Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ND3JR that's a good take. We help us. We host us.