Post AAOrN20sSViD4DzDCy by Nicotiana@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by Nicotiana@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #AAMrGXgwBkmelV6Daq by Ismat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T01:32:42.379148Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
Do white women think that we are some sort of animals?
(DIR) Post #AAMrHePyfJDRush9Em by Nora@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T01:38:02.828340Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Ismat "let them in, if they agree to immediately adopt our worldview and sever all ties with their family and identity"The p(m?)aternalism is strong here
(DIR) Post #AAMt3KkJCzv6l6VP0K by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T01:44:21.322588Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ismat OMFG. I agree with your take. :1000: As if Afghan women can't possibly have loving relationships with partners, sons, brothers, and fathers who might ALSO want to get the fuck away from a repressive regime! If refugee programs fail, it's because they are underfunded and don't provide adequate resources for the people who had to leave everything they owned behind to run for their LIVES. If there ARE women who want to leave alone, yes, we should take them. Making it a requirement to come alone is barbaric. đ„
(DIR) Post #AAN0Ye2CFAndElkXdA by mittimithai@neenster.org
2021-08-16T03:28:23.032197Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ismat I saw that post and thought it was so insane.
(DIR) Post #AANqoLht1kYRZC383U by TheDeadlyBeauty@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T10:28:28.920027Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ismat I'm not white and I agree with the post. If she was wrong you all wouldn't be fleeing your crumbling nations.
(DIR) Post #AANqoM9tLcxKy39Uhs by Ismat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:06:39.217556Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TheDeadlyBeauty I donât care about the opinion of a white mans boot licker like you.
(DIR) Post #AANqoMdJaEUYRIuzZI by fpcgggc@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:13:53.528978Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ismat Yeah I donât totally agree with that post. I trust boys more than men, though. @TheDeadlyBeauty
(DIR) Post #AANsQg63lZhplNCGHo by Ismat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:17:06.997508Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@fpcgggc @TheDeadlyBeauty Just imagine if there was a country that was advanced and non racist and they said, look at the condition of Black women in the USA. And then proposed that they will let all Black women in as long as black women severed all ties with their male side of the family and the US. Black women would laugh in their faces. Afgani women feel the same.
(DIR) Post #AANsR1LMlrQZevWHYm by Ismat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:18:50.372907Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@fpcgggc @TheDeadlyBeauty Boys grow into men in a few years. They donât remain boys forever. Afgani men are no more dangerous then western men. Its racism that teaches you to fear Black or Brown men. Men are men and they are equally dangerous.
(DIR) Post #AANvN11gJER9NX5tUO by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:27:16.537300Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ismat @fpcgggc @TheDeadlyBeauty âThe most disrespected woman in America, is the black woman. The most un-protected person in America is the black woman. The most neglected person in America, is the black woman.â Malcolm X
(DIR) Post #AANvN1XaObxQyU1NDc by TheDeadlyBeauty@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:36:30.004870Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @fpcgggc 860 black female deaths mostly committed by the horrifically mysoginist men in the community. Of course no one actually knows about the current internal conflict going on between black men and women and the new black female separatist movement currently on the rise. So if a nation actually offered an escape for black women and black women only you're probably going to be very surprised by how many will take that offer.
(DIR) Post #AANvSgkqai7iFFvQ7U by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:43:54.523789Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TheDeadlyBeauty @Ismat @fpcgggc doesnât surprise me to hear that female speratism is on the rise in the black community, There has been growing animosity between black men and black women for at least 30 years+ particularly towards black men who choose a âwhyte queenâ
(DIR) Post #AANvShEymgE5ki1U5Q by TheDeadlyBeauty@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:57:48.774196Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @fpcgggc cognitive dissonance on interracial dating is strong on both sides because they still kinda believe in black nationalism. I personally care more about not ending up in that statistic more than who they want to fuck.
(DIR) Post #AAO5aiacfyN154ANyC by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T06:23:08.087985Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jennifer_Lee @Ismat "Afghan women have loving relationships with partners, sons, brothers, and fathers" - WHAT A JOKE. Women like these who deny reality and give the benefit of the doubt to the worst type of men (in this case terrorists and misogynists) is the reason women will be oppressed forever. No empathy, no critical thinking, total blindness to evidence. Did not expect it from a "feminist" space like this.
(DIR) Post #AAO5ajA4YAj6r0khE0 by Ismat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:03:04.212156Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@virginiawolf @Jennifer_Lee So only women in the west can have loving relationships with their family members? YOU ARE A JOKE and A FUCKING RACIST.
(DIR) Post #AAO5ajbitMqQElgmK8 by Furball@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:27:13.045570Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ismat @virginiawolf @Jennifer_Lee well I don't think women in the west can have truly equal and loving relationship with their male partners either, so
(DIR) Post #AAO5akCweycQ6D6VLE by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T15:27:26.942788Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Furball @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee TRUE. Women cannot have loving relationships with males under patriarchy. period. Your father doesn't love you if he will kill you if you dishonor himYour husband doesn't love you if he wants you to stay at home against your will You brother doesn't love you if he is ok accompanying you everywhere for your "honor"Your son doesn't love you if he doesn't see your sufferings. Women cannot have loving relationships with males under patriarchy
(DIR) Post #AAO5ibknyW4QCFgvEO by Ismat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T15:30:58.937519Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@virginiawolf @Furball @Jennifer_Lee Then by all means break up your relationships with every male member of your family and friends and community but donât tell us what to do. You look at us through the white manâs eyes and we would just be thankful if you left us the fuck alone.
(DIR) Post #AAO5neMVhncFjXjRJo by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T15:59:25.362434Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@virginiawolf @Jennifer_Lee @Ismat Afghan men are not born terrorists. Absurd takes like "bring only women and girls" are entirely unhelpful and don't provide an accurate picture of what is happening. At the risk of saying 'what about the men' I will say it because it's an important cultural piece we need to consider, especially in Afghanistan.Read about bacha bazi. These boys grow up continuing the cycle of unimaginable abuse, and dehumanizing women in part because of their own abuse. Similar "practices" like bacha bazi are found all around the world. Taliban's founder, Mohammed Omar, allegedly created the Taliban in part because he wanted to ban this horrific practice. It is the cause of so much oppression, abuse, and murder. If feminism ignores the plight of these boys, then I don't want to be a feminist.
(DIR) Post #AAO6f1bq0H1hBJLu76 by Berco@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T16:06:21.203037Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@diversity_racket @virginiawolf @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee Refugees to any country are usually limited in number by the country taking them in. I would always say, in any case, bring the women and girls first. And why? Because as we all know, women and girls are the ones always on the bottom in the male dominated countries around the world, they are the ones who will suffer horrific sexual abuse first, we know that. If boys are suffering, also, exceptions can be made, but for me, not if it takes the place of any female. If feminists don't say this, who will?
(DIR) Post #AAO98mHZkiA0F4BpXk by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T16:19:29.512119Z
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@Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf Yeah I know this process. I worked in this field. I was specifically bringing up Afghanistan and the cultural "practice" of bacha bazi which only affects boys. I just do not agree with this approach at all and I won't change my mind about it. đ€·ââïž
(DIR) Post #AAO98mhoBB8zYQSmQq by Berco@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T16:30:48.750694Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@diversity_racket That's your prerogative. The practice of sexual abuse of girls and boys by MEN is horrific and as we know, an integral part of patriarchy. No one here, I assume, is condoning bacha bazi. It must end. But ultimately what must end, is patriarchy in all its forms. We would probably all agree to that. It is men doing whatever the fuck they like to whomever to satisfy their own sick needs and demand for dominance and power. Doing it because THEY CAN. This is a nonsensical argument. @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf
(DIR) Post #AAOC9PjfMmuqSxK9Hk by AnneBevan@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T16:25:28.281826Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Berco @diversity_racket @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf International law does not favour the breakup of refugee families. Refugees have the RIGHT to family reunification in their country of refuge.
(DIR) Post #AAOC9QFZSAR83uFd0y by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T16:26:29.397864Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@AnneBevan @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket law needs to be changed then. Refugee women fleeing extreme patriarchy should have an option to flee independently.
(DIR) Post #AAOdBidUlOxeQUlFPE by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T21:59:18.701987Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Berco @diversity_racket @Ismat @virginiawolf I am 100% opposed to separating desperate families. We need to stop treating human beings like cattle to be divided up and herded according to the ideological whims of people who are completely distanced and ignorant of the dynamics of the situation. We need to ask the Afghans how we can best help them, and then attempt to provide resources to fulfill their requests in the manner that is the least traumatic for them.
(DIR) Post #AAOdBj6v00UrtkWkGe by Berco@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:07:41.398134Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Jennifer_Lee I really don't know who said anything about separating families. This has been a scattered and mostly general discussion, not at all focused as far as I can see. One responds so often to one post one is seeing and did not see the all the posts, which is ripe, in this situation, for true misunderstandings. Why all the name calling here? Personally what I was responding to and said, had to do with the horrendous situation Afghan women will be under the Taliban. And thus, suggesting or agreeing with the idea that women should be helped to leave the country if that is what they want to do for their own safety. We know that women are now in hiding there. How this got to accusing those of us who felt that way with dividing up families and condemning all men, and being racists, I do not know. That was not what was meant. @Ismat @diversity_racket @virginiawolf
(DIR) Post #AAOde3Qp2Vnp1zLR5M by Ismat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:51:09.477293Z
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@ImpoliteFemale @TheDeadlyBeauty @fpcgggc Yes, there are women who are dissatisfied with the treatment they are met by Black men but saying, âgrowing animosity between Black men and Black womenâ as a whole is complete bullocks.
(DIR) Post #AAOde484RiOhC7ZyUq by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T13:57:35.264074Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ismat @TheDeadlyBeauty @fpcgggc ._. Thatâs your opinion and I respect that but I know what Iâve seen and âhostileâ is the best word I canât point to describe that situation
(DIR) Post #AAOeBxWVVrK0YKAemG by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:21:18.502031Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Berco @Jennifer_Lee @Ismat @diversity_racket I am also asking this question. I was accused of being "white" and "racist" for saying we should prioritize women and girls since they face the gravest danger. It is very sad that even so called feminists are unable to have a calm discussion without name calling and thought policing. It is impossible to discuss anything that affects women without "what about men? what about boys? what about everything else under the sun?". True tragedy is that women like @Jennifer_Lee would rather derail the conversation by bringing up "what about meeen? when literal women and girls are getting raped right now. I am ashamed by this thread, truly didn't expect a gaslighting session from feminists on a feminist platform.Women like this make me doubt if we will ever be free of this oppression.
(DIR) Post #AAOeBy23cYYi8AvqxE by Berco@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:26:21.785304Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@virginiawolf I think we all need to step back and focus on Afghanistan and not on each other. Sadly, many years ago, my women's political group met with some of the women of RAWA who had come to the US to plead with us to stop the US intervention. We networked with them then. So tragically we are in a similar place now. I support the work of all courageous Afghan women. @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket
(DIR) Post #AAOfSse8zvlWIwNLV2 by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:38:38.153756Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@virginiawolf @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee That is an unfair and dishonest assessment -- both to yourself and to others, including Jennifer, who was echoing my initial thoughts on this. In my comment, I specifically prefaced with the 'what about men' comment because I knew there would be a gross overreaction, as is happening here, right now. But I still mentioned it because this area -- the Pashtun tribe -- has been continuing a centuries-long practice of predominantly using boys as sex slaves, and those boys grow up to be the very abusers we condemn today. The solution is so much more complex than just allowing women and girls to seek asylum. Disagreement does not mean gaslighting. Conflating the former with the latter is dishonest. It's okay if not everyone agrees with you all the time. It's how we become well-rounded people. It's okay.
(DIR) Post #AAOfka0l1QfjikOOY4 by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:44:40.260199Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@diversity_racket @virginiawolf @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee I AM BLOCKED BY MOST PEOPLE IN THIS CONVO BUT I'M PRETTY SURE IT WAS ABOUT THAT WEIRD OVARIT THREAD. I WANTED TO DROP OFF A LINK HERE ABOUT A WOMAN WHO'S RAISING FUNDS TO REPORT ON THE LIVES OF AFGAN WOMEN. https://chuffed.org/project/reporting-on-issues-that-affect-afghan-women-is-expensive-rukhshana-media-needs-your-helpAND AN ORG FOR AFGAN WOMEN'S SCHOOLING.https://www.rahelatrust.org/I WONDER IF ANYONE FROM THIS CONVO WILL DONATE.
(DIR) Post #AAOgEVzsVkltxUFtr6 by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:48:49.998057Z
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@BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf Haha, thanks for sharing. I saw that first link earlier (about Rukshana media) and went to the website to make sure it's legit (you never know...) It says it was founded in "1399" so I don't know what that's supposed to mean....? lol https://rukhshana.com/about
(DIR) Post #AAOgEWQSuu2THwh8IS by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:50:04.317625Z
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@diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf IT SAYS 2020 WHEN I READ IT? I'M USING GOOG TRANSLATE.
(DIR) Post #AAOgoczG03eK3wBWEq by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:51:12.382749Z
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@BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf Really? I'm using Google translate too. Good way to find out translate is broken lol...
(DIR) Post #AAOgodPUQWdJNIST7w by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:56:36.335129Z
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@diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf I MEAN, IT'S DICY TO FIGURE OUT A CHARITY'S VALUES WHEN YOU CAN'T PHYSICALLY INTERACT WITH THEM MUCHLESS WHEN THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A GIANT GOVERNMETN UPHEAVAL BUT THE WOMEN WHO STARTED IT DID DO A PIECE FOR THE GUARDIAN, SO THAT'S AT LEAST ONE SORT OF FILTER.https://twitter.com/ZahraJoyahttps://twitter.com/eduardosuarez/status/1427178135116820480IT'S HARD TO HELP EFFECTIVELY.HOWEVER, IN THE ARGUMENTATIVE CONVO THAT WAS HAPPENING, I WANTED TO GET EVERYONE TO FOCUS ON THE CHARITIES THEMSELVES INSTEAD OF ON FIGHTING WITH EACH OTHER TBH. JUST THINKING DIFFERENTLY. NOT THAT I THINK SPINSTER IS A GREAT PLACE TO TAKE ACTION BUT I LIKE THE IDEA OF WOMEN PUTTING ISSUES ASIDE TO WORK TOGETHER INSTEAD OF ARGUING SO MUCH.JUST, I DON'T KNOW, A DIFFERENT VIEW. ALSO THIS SHIT ISN'T EVEN VISABLE TO MOST PEOPLE LOL.
(DIR) Post #AAOgsf4YBkQfgkaHCK by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:57:20.013965Z
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@diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf OH, ALSO, ARE YOU TRANSLATING TO ENGLISH? MAYBE IF YOU TRY AGAIN IT WILL WORK?
(DIR) Post #AAOhLcQb6DcdsvhjGq by LuvGreenTea2019@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:02:33.603079Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@diversity_racket @virginiawolf @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee I'm sorry that this subject has gotten out of hand. We all want the best for Afghan women. And, the older men who abuse the Bachi Bazi boys should be in jail. I wish there was a way to rescue them all, but we can't. The country is really screwed up. I appreciate your comments.
(DIR) Post #AAOhheP4R43QNlUnXU by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:01:25.797375Z
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@BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf Yep, translated to English and still says 1399 lol.
(DIR) Post #AAOhheuGZ50XwW5iAC by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:06:31.482926Z
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@diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf Û±ÛłÛčÛč
(DIR) Post #AAOhjhya7gvA2g5S1Q by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:06:51.658207Z
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@diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf ۱۳ۧÙÙ Û Ű±ŰźŰŽŰ§ÙÙ ŰŻŰ± ŰłŰ§Ù Û±ÛłÛčÛč ŰȘۧ۳ÛŰł ŰŽŰŻŰ Ű§ÛÙ Ű±ŰłŰ§ÙÙ ÛÚ© ۱۳ۧÙÙ Ù
ŰłŰȘÙÙ Ű§ŰłŰȘ Ú©Ù
(DIR) Post #AAOhuQ0JHcqBUK0Cu0 by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:08:51.428995Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf OK, MY BAD, I FORGOT I WASN'T USEING CHROME.I WENT TO GOOGLE TRANSLATE AND WITH JUST THE NUMBER, IT SIMPLY REPEATED THE CHARACTERS AND DIDN'T CHANGE IT TO ENGLISH.WHEN I USED GOOGLE TRANSLATE IT ALSO SAID 1399.WHEN IT USED THE TRANSLATOR BUILT INTO THE BROWER IT SAID 2020.
(DIR) Post #AAOi2TJiqhrk51vFwG by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:10:18.838123Z
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@Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf OK, MY BAD, I FORGOT I WASN'T USEING CHROME.I WENT TO GOOGLE TRANSLATE AND WITH JUST THE NUMBER, IT SIMPLY REPEATED THE CHARACTERS AND SHOWED 2020.OK, WEIRD, IT DIDN'T CHANGE IT BUT THEN IT DID CHANGE TO 2020. WHEN I USED GOOGLE TRANSLATE FOR THE WHOLE SENTANCE IT ALSO SAID 1399.WHEN IT USED THE TRANSLATOR BUILT INTO THE BROWER I'M USING (NOT GOOGL TRANSLATE) IT SAID 2020.
(DIR) Post #AAOiaSzOZg8uuQcmv2 by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:33:37.033725Z
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@virginiawolf @Berco @Ismat @diversity_racket In YOUR world, all women are single and want nothing to do with men. Yes we SHOULD prioritize women and girls, ON THEIR TERMS, NOT YOURS. You're a dishonest racist asshole trying to frame my argument as wanting to protect men. I want to protect the WOMEN who don't want to abandon their husbands and sons. Perhaps you're too much of a bitter asshole to have created a bond with another human being, but I have been happily married for 21 years, and I wouldn't demand that ANY woman be put in the position of choosing between her husband and children or her life. YOU want to DICTATE how help is offered to women, and I want to let WOMEN CHOOSE how we can best help them, and that includes things that they might want that might go against MY personal perspective of the situation.
(DIR) Post #AAOiaTW0cQEMXZspkm by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:50:16.073225Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Berco @Ismat @diversity_racket You have been married 21 years and this is your level of understanding things??? I am a young WOC failed by your generation of women. I thank you for failing me and countless number of young women out there and leaving us a porn filled culture thanks to your ignorance and cowardice. Now you want to ruin things for Afghan girls? No way. I really thought you are just a clueless young libfem, how wrong I was. You are the true racist asshole
(DIR) Post #AAOiaU2GgU2E9cyb2G by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:56:46.369635Z
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@virginiawolf @Jennifer_Lee @Berco @Ismat Do you smoke weed? Some indica might do you good. You clearly have much to learn, including how to have a level headed conversation with people. These are some pretty disrespectful takes.
(DIR) Post #AAOiaUWOsS8bf54f0C by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T22:58:51.120854Z
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@diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee No, you have much to learn. Look at the numbers of likes my comments are getting. I am tired of women like you derailing true feminist discourse with "what about men".
(DIR) Post #AAOiaV2IxpetG208jQ by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:04:33.921419Z
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@virginiawolf @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee The fact that you base the validity of your points on number of likes tells me all I need to know. Sad.
(DIR) Post #AAOiaVUfGOLMfzGmw4 by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:09:27.094915Z
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@diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee it is not just likes. real women are behind those icons. I have new followers and people resharing my post. Your liberal feminist "not all men, what about men" bullshit is clearly out of fashion
(DIR) Post #AAOiaVxNXdJQ72higy by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:16:26.646836Z
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@virginiawolf @diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee HELLO!PLEASE REMEMBER IT ISN'T JUST WOMEN BEHIND THE LIKES!I FREQUENTLY GET LIKES FROM KIWIFARMERS AND RANDO FEDDI SCUM WHO ENJOY DRAMA. I AM SORRY SOMEONE ASSUMED YOUR RACE AND USED THAT TO DISMISS AN ARGUMENT. THAT IS WRONG AND MAKES IT FEEL LIKE A PERSON ISN'T LISTENING. THIS WHOLE ARGUMENT MAKES ME SAD BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT WILL DO THAT MUCH. ANYWAYS, I HOPE YOU DO KEEP YOUR ANGER AND LEARN TO CHANNEL IT. IT'S HARD TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT THOUGH WHEN SOMEONE IS READY TO DIMISS YOU RIGHT OFF THE BAT AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MERITS OF YOUR ARGUMENT. I ALSO HOPE YOU LEARN TO OBSERVE YOUR ANGER SO THAT IT CAN BE PLACES SOMEWHERE THAT'S CONSTRUCTIVE. THERE ARE MANY IDIOT TROLLS THAT CAN EASILY GET ONTO FREE WEBSITES. WHETHER THAT'S OVARIT OR SPINSTER. THEY ENJOY ANGER AND DIVISIVENESS. I WISH PEOPLE WOULD ASK ABOUT CLASS, COUNTRY OF ORIGIN, COUNTRY OF CURRENT RESIDENCE, AGE AND OTHER THINGS, TBH. IT MAKES ME SAD THAT SO MANY WOMEN ARE DISMISSING EACH OTHER. THAT'S OK THOUGH BECAUSE I'MA GO POST ABOUT SCALPS AND TRY AND SOLVE THE 1399 VS 2020 FARSI TRANSLATION ISSUE~!
(DIR) Post #AAOibJ48xGq2QDFJXU by Binturong@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:12:48.753169Z
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@diversity_racket @BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf - Maybe it is using the Islamic calendar.
(DIR) Post #AAOibYxdrD91igKLcu by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:16:27.221859Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Binturong @BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf Bingo! That seems to line up.
(DIR) Post #AAOiiEygYJyFlo01jM by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:17:51.275249Z
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@Binturong @diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf MIND BLOWN!OK, WE NEED TO DECONSTRUCT TIME NOW.BY NOT KNOWING ALL THE DIFFERENT WAYS TIME IS COUNTRED OR STARTED IS AM CLEARLY NOT JUST IGNORANT, BUT INCREADIBLY RACIST. ALONG WITH TAKING APART THE ENGLISH LANGUAGES, I'MA START YELLING AT PEEPS ABOUT NUMBERS!YAY!
(DIR) Post #AAOjQaYtfHLPSB5GKW by polarisera@gleasonator.com
2021-08-16T23:25:52.452073Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@BCLADY @Binturong @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf > OK, WE NEED TO DECONSTRUCT TIME NOW.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis
(DIR) Post #AAOjsGnQkKaSGB56Dw by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:25:21.795889Z
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@diversity_racket @virginiawolf @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee I think the best way to word it would be âwomen and childrenâ should be a priority, not just women and girls. Little boys need saving too. A child is a child regardless of sex, innocent children are extremely vulnerable to the real monsters who walk among us and it is our job as DECENT HUMAN ADULTS to PROTECT those small vulnerable humans from those monsters
(DIR) Post #AAOjsHFR4CzLf2BSsK by Nicotiana@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:30:39.656962Z
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@ImpoliteFemale @diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf Yes, agree. And fathers need to see these things too, and fathers need to understand issues, and protect their daughters.
(DIR) Post #AAOkAqJTQz7fcrvRT6 by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:01:08.534569Z
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@BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf Okay, that makes it look more "legit." Yeah you're totally right. Should probably take a page out of your book. Lol, how many people block you??? There's 6 of us in this convo, including you and me. How many participants can you see?
(DIR) Post #AAOkAqv3BHBFVPVS2S by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:34:14.043225Z
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@diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf WELL ISMAT DID A LONG TIME AGO. I GUESS ONLY TWO OUT OF THE 6?I SWEAR THERE WAS A DIFF CONVO WHERE THERE WERE MORE PEOPLE AND I WAS BLOCKED?I AM WHITE ACCORDING TO ISMAT. I UNDERSTAND FRUSTRATION WITH CULTURAL DIFFERENCES BUT I AM A BIT FRUSTRATED ABOUT HOW IT'S A VERY RACE ORIENTED THING TO HER. IN FACT, IF SHE JUST EXCHANGED "WHITE" FOR WESTERN I THINK THERE'D BE A LOT LESS CONFLICT. PEOPLE CAN'T CHANGE THEIR SKIN COLOUR, EYESHAPE OR SUCH PHYSICAL FEATURE ANYMORE THAN THEY CAN CHANGE THEIR SEX.RACE TO ME COMBINES PHYSICAL TRAIGHTS (SKIN/HAIR/LIPSHAPE) WITH CULTURAL NORMS. CULTURE EVOLVES AND CAN CHANGE VERY FAST, A PERSON'S BODY IS THEIR OWN. SO WHILE I UNDERSTAND BEING ANGRY BECAUSE IT'S REALLY HARD OT PROVE RACISM, I CAN'T ACCEPT FIGHTING IT WITH EXCHANGING ONE RACE FOR ANOTHER, JUST BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE YOU ARE FIGHTING AGAINST THE RACE THAT HAS INSTITUTIONAL POWER. PEOPLE CAN'T CHANGE THEIR GENETIC HERITAGE (ALTHOUGH THEY CAN LIVE THEIR LIFE WHILE BEING IGNORANT ABOUT IT LOL).PEOPLE CAN'T CHANGE THEIR EXPERIENCE GROWING UP IN WHATEVER CULTURE. THEY CAN CHANGE THEIR CULTURE AND TRY AND UNDERSTAND OTHER'S CULTURES TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE AT HELPING ACHIEVE WOMEN'S LIBERATION.BERCO DID BLOCK ME TOO, BUT I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER INTERACTED WITH HER. TBH.A LOT OF PEOPLE BLOCK ME BECAUSE I'M ANNOYING THOUGH, SO I RESPECT THAT. I POST A LOT OF NONSENSE AND MY HUMOUR ISN'T FOR EVERYONE. I REMEMBER THIS OVARIT THREAD STARTING AND THINKING...THIS WILL TURN UGLY. IF I AM CORRECT ISMAT ASKED A RHETORICAL QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER WHITE WOMEN THOUGHT AFGHAN WOMEN WERE ANIMALS. AND I DON'T AGREE WITH THE IDEA OF ALLOWING ONLY WOMEN REFUGEES BUT NOT MEN IN. SO I WAS REALLY CREEPED OUT BY THE PART ABOUT WOMEN REFUGEES NOT BEING ALLOWED CONTACT WITH MALE FAMILY MEMBERS FROM THE ORIGINAL OVARIT POST AND HOW MOST PEOPLE SEEMED TO BREEZE BY THAT?WHAT SHE WOULD HAVE CALLED "WHITE" I WOULD HAVE CALLED RIDICULOUS SEX SEGRAGATION. ANYWAYS THE ABILITY TO LET REFUGEES IN IS VERY BASED ON A COUNTRY AND WHERE THE PERSON LIVES IN SAID COUNTRY. SO THE FACT THAT NO ONE IS EVEN ASKING THAT IS WEIRD TO ME. CANADA GENERALLY WELCOMES REFUGEES BUT IT'S A LOT HARDER TO GET HERE COMPARED TO EUROPE OR THE US AND TBH, I SORT OF JUST WISH WE'D SPEND A YEAR CLEARNING UP OUR OWN IDIOT COUNTRY INSTEAD OF TRYING TO SAVE EVERYONE WHILE MAYBE JUST MAKING STUFF WORSE? ALTHOUGH, I THINK IT'S STUPID THAT CANADA WENT TO WAR IN THE FIRST PLACE. I WOULD LIKE TO BE SUPPORTIVE BUT I'M ALSO AWARE THAT I'M PRETTY IGNORANT OF THE SITUATION. I WISH MORE PEOPLE WOULD BE OK ADMITTING IGNORANCE. MY HEART HURTS AT WHAT'S HAPPENING TO WOMEN IN AFGANISTAN AND ALL OVER THE WORLD. I FIND I CAN TAKE AND MEASURE ACTIONS IN MY OWN COMMUNITY MUCH BETTER THOUGH. BLAH, I HOPE THIS EXPLAINED SOME THINGS?
(DIR) Post #AAOkPKmawfzcBESNX6 by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:26:45.381858Z
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@BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket STOP POLICING WOMEN'S JUSTIFIED ANGER. STOP DERAILING EVERY FEMINIST DISCOURSE WITH "NOT ALL MEN". STOP SACRIFICING 99% FOR 1%.STOP WHITEWASHING MISOGYNY.STOP BEING DISHONEST
(DIR) Post #AAOkPLMOnYdHyHCyLA by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:36:50.839094Z
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@virginiawolf @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket LOL, YOU'RE TALKING TO A HAMSTER.I'M SUPER HONEST.THAT'S WHY I HAVE SO MANY KICKSTARTERS. I'LL POLICE ALL THE FEELINGS AND SCALPS I WANT. BECAUSE I KNOW YOU'RE FEELING SOMETHING AND I WANT ATTENTION. AND I GOT IT. SO THEN,DID FEMINISM WIN HERE?Are any women liberated?
(DIR) Post #AAOkTBLvwpfy5koxeq by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:37:32.907187Z
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@polarisera @Berco @Binturong @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf ZOMGYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSH.YOU FEED ME THE BEST LINKS POLAR!
(DIR) Post #AAOkUBXmirzkySqIjo by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:08:48.242436Z
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@BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf The last part of that says "This is an independent arsenal" đ
(DIR) Post #AAOl2A38miQQBZi4zw by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:39:48.722974Z
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@virginiawolf @BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket While were yelling id like to add STOP USING âWHITEâ AS A WAY TO DISMISS AN ARGUEMENT/ A POINT. NOT ALL WYPIPO ARE THE SAME, asshole.
(DIR) Post #AAOl2AXyw35xjE8i4O by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:41:11.614488Z
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@ImpoliteFemale @BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket AGREE. I AM NOT WHITE BUT I GOT CALLED WHITE IN HERE. NOT EVERYTHING THAT SOUNDS UNCOMFORTABLE TO YOU IS "WHITE FEMINISM". STOP SILENCING FEMINIST THOUGTS
(DIR) Post #AAOl2B0LEbmR9BPMH2 by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:43:51.917572Z
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@virginiawolf @ImpoliteFemale @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket OMGTHERE IS SO MUCH YELLING!I LOVE IT!I HOPE THAT PEOPLE CAN LEARN SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE AND ASK BETTER QUESTIONS LIKE: WHAT IS SOMEONE'S COUNTRY OF ORIGIN? WHERE IS THEIR CURRENT HOME COUNTRY? DO THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH REFUGEES OR IMMIGRATION? ARE THEY ONE THEMSELVES? WHAT IS THEIR CLASS? DO THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE JOB STABILITY OR OTHER SKILLS THEY CAN RELY ON TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES IN DIFFERING CIRCUMSTANCES? DO THEY HAVE TO CARE FOR YOUNG CHILDREN? YELLING!!!!!!!!!!
(DIR) Post #AAOlh6LfRzHQZztiEq by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:50:47.856399Z
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@virginiawolf @BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket I hate when folks throw the fact Iâm a pale face in my face as a way to dismiss my point,itâs not fair! Iâm pale but But Iâm not above-the-poverty-line white. Folks dont seem to want to acknowledge that white Privilege only comes if you can meet the tax bracket requirement.
(DIR) Post #AAOm1XsmmxbJlc8YGO by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:14:08.302549Z
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@virginiawolf @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee Likes AND new followers -- go you! Yeah, you haven't read a thing I wrote. For your own sake, please learn to read and equip yourself with strategies to deal with disagreement when you're out in the real world. And have a little toke while you're at it.
(DIR) Post #AAOmMm1pOEmHikUM40 by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:56:34.454292Z
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@BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf So I'm still on Halloween mode, so the white words in all CAPS makes it a little harder to read LOL but I managed. Yeah, the racist accusations don't sit well with me, either. Before everyone was a Nazi, then it was fascist, then transphobic, etc. All these loaded terms are thrown around so carelessly now. It's a serious accusation, and should be handled as such. And yeah you make a good point about how different countries manage refugees -- that's not even being addressed here. And yeah, I'm in Canada too, and I will say, having worked for an immigrant & refugee org, it's been really illuminating. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there is a ton of support networks here for immigrants (I'm also an immigrant), but that's only after you are actually able to make it here. So many people are willing to help out -- remember all that stuff with Syrian refugees? We kept getting calls years later of people wanting to help out, donate, etc. Often, we had to turn people away for wanting to help. So many people are ready to give, it's just our leaders that get in the way cause they're too busy politicking. We're all bickering, but at least we're bickering about who cares the most (That could be a good or bad thing lol).
(DIR) Post #AAOmvQOnndSWm1l25g by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:05:04.062919Z
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@diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf Haha, sorry, my words are yelling because I'm pretty much always yelling. I wish women would try and unit and be constructive and not get so stuck with arguing but who knows, maybe it's working something out for them?It feels like there are a lot of ways to look at the refugee situation and missing both physical space (Canada is protected by water, the cold and the US for example) and laws of the specific countries is a huge mistake. Weird stuff like that happens on the internet. I think social media thrives off of it and while something could be done to change the infrastructure of spinster to maybe refocus on constructive actions considering it's a free site, I don't expect it too any time. I appreciate your contributions to the conversation, I mean I appreciate everyone but I can see you're trying to remain balanced and de-escalate and that's difficult to do and why I just enjoy yelling and chaos. Sometimes hamster pics. Anyways, if you're Canadian, pass this around please and thanks!https://www.womenmattercanada.com/our-goal-1
(DIR) Post #AAOpufqv9r8aH6F9w8 by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:41:11.615695Z
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@Nicotiana @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf unfortunately âfathersâ are the issue. MEN as a whole have very much seem to have lost the plot
(DIR) Post #AAOpuhSXBUopG2qiCe by Nicotiana@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:49:52.856443Z
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@ImpoliteFemale @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf Yes. Thinking about it - the men I know and have as family.... should I try to talk to them (again)? Or just escape, get away from them?
(DIR) Post #AAOpuiAqWkGRTTa6Gu by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:59:25.271636Z
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@Nicotiana @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf honestly I donât know. Iâve basically stopped interacting with males(except for my son and my friends sons/little boys). The trash takes itself out when you are rudely unwilling to bend even a little bit to males idiotic belief that TWAW and should be included in womens sex-specific spaces/sports
(DIR) Post #AAOpuj0xOzwq55xiUq by Nicotiana@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:01:40.323809Z
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@ImpoliteFemale @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf Wishing you well and hoping you're OK.
(DIR) Post #AAOpukJ4b8285ZRhNA by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:32:16.208952Z
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@Nicotiana @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf and I wish you well as well, May the universe bless you and your path with the best karma
(DIR) Post #AAOq0bMUldSW5Iq3bU by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:00:21.995236Z
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@virginiawolf @Berco @Ismat @diversity_racket This is some ugly next-level victim-blaming. So typical of recent generations, you ageist moron. Call me Karen and Boomer while you're at it. I'm a lifelong feminist activist. I didn't FAIL YOU. I didn't LET the patriarchy maintain control of women's lives. I fought against it my whole life, and I accomplished a great many important changes all by myself within every school and workplace culture that I could. So sorry I couldn't change the entire world for you, as I'm just one person. đ Die mad about it, you fucking bigot.
(DIR) Post #AAOq0c2KG6v4B2PSnw by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:02:47.000451Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Berco @Ismat @diversity_racket I WANT PEOPLE TO READ THIS. LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF SLURS THROWN AT ME. EVEN MEN ON REDDIT DIDN'T DEGRADE ME LIKE THIS. THIS IS THE WOMAN DEFENDING THE AFGHAN MEN
(DIR) Post #AAOq0d8k9jeBbEQ6Rk by Furball@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:09:59.533977Z
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@virginiawolf đąđą You don't deserve the amount of hate you get for simply stating the truth. Maybe it's bc it goes against their 'men love us' narrative
(DIR) Post #AAOq0e0yu524JRnPzE by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:13:36.942185Z
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@Furball thanks for kind words. Yes, they are angry at me because I am shattering their "good, feminist and loving Afghan husband" fantasy.
(DIR) Post #AAOq0eYIuBgfynO1vU by Matoriel@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:28:07.993906Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@virginiawolf i am very sorry for the fact that you became a punching bag for speaking the truth.
(DIR) Post #AAOqUBHyGpZRuMpLAu by GCat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:16:14.725775Z
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@Nicotiana @ImpoliteFemale @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf In one of the articles in the Guardian on this issue, there was a paragraph that stood out to me. A shopkeeper in Kabul, knowing that the Taliban were going to take the city, started growing out his beard and checked in with his wife to make sure that âthere were enough burkas for her and their daughters.â Perhaps if they had interviewed this man longer he might have come out and had a more nuanced opinion about womenâs rights and value to society. But that line just made it sound like he was totally cool with throwing his female relatives to the wolves because he is fine with the minimal changes he has to make in his life as a man. This is a problem with men across all societies. They donât care about womenâs rights because it doesnât impact them. They donât care about TIMs in womenâs prisons and apparently, they donât particularly care about the plight of women in a misogynistic theocracy. While I personally do not advocate for female asylum only, I am not naive to how men in general can be pretty indifferent to womenâs concerns.
(DIR) Post #AAOqUBxnlJ2006OkNM by Nicotiana@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:23:46.173974Z
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@GCat @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf Even in trivial things, my experience (Western, white), us woman are brought up and taught to serve the men.The day you get that flashbulb in your head - NO: YOU DON'T HAVE TO SERVE MEN, YOU ARE AN INDIVIDUAL IN YOUR OWN RIGHT!!!(Still working on it, and Spinster is very helpful in this respect.)
(DIR) Post #AAOrN20sSViD4DzDCy by Nicotiana@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:38:25.263443Z
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@GCat @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf And yes, I would argue for giving asylum to women and children who have no men attached. But this will be abused by men, too, inevitably. Women and children get asylum, and then men establish their reason for getting asylum too, to catch up with their women and children. Not always benign, in the current climate of men using women.It's only a few days ago that a white male incel shot people dead, because he was a white male incel.
(DIR) Post #AAOrN2RoqLGMPmajCa by GCat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:44:20.696987Z
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@Nicotiana @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf My own relationships with my male relatives started quickly deteriorating as soon as I became more outspoken about womenâs rights, particularly when it comes to the gender nonsense. (Apparently I am âtransphobicâ and âright-wing.â) So I definitely understand the sentiment behind female separatism - even your own male relatives might not advocate for you.
(DIR) Post #AAOrN2slEAoVlLCFCC by Nicotiana@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:53:52.922598Z
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@GCat @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf Wishing you all the best in your own future, GCat. It's difficult. We've been brought up from birth, due to us having female biology, to serve men; and any notion that we have our own thoughts and aspirations are squished, because we are women and therefore we can't have our own thoughts and aspirations, because our purpose is to serve men.Well, fuck that. No.Women are saying NO to quite a lot of things, these days.
(DIR) Post #AAOsMjyLdN1z4KEDRo by Furball@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T16:06:02.641213Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ismat @virginiawolf @Jennifer_Lee Please don't speak for other WOCs some of us truly want to and need to be free from malesYou might be lucky enough to have non-abusive relationship with your hubby& other male family members but others may not be as privileged as you
(DIR) Post #AAOsMkSTpL8MZmKHPk by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:28:56.814011Z
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@Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf No one is suggesting that a woman should be stuck with a male that she doesn't want to be with.
(DIR) Post #AAOsMkuU9DXFydQe48 by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:35:45.945644Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat keep back pedaling now. As if abused and scared Afghan woman would ever dare to escape their abusers without outside help. Multiple WOC are telling you that there number of "good and feminist Afghan husbands" is overestimated, you refuse to listen. You want to cling on to the fantasy that there are many good, feminist Afghan husbands out there.
(DIR) Post #AAOsMlNCQSVJPgrZp2 by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:47:29.883621Z
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@virginiawolf @Furball @Ismat I'm not back-peddling. I stand by everything I've said. You can't make an argument against my comments without twisting and misrepresenting my words- that's on you. I'm not defending a misogynist culture- I am defending the agency of the women that you claim you want to help. I want to help them on their own terms. You only want to help them on YOURS. "Multiple WOC are telling you..."A WOC posted the original item from Ovarit. It demonstrates the Western model of imposing our perspective on WOC in a manner that is patriarchal, dehumanizing, and racist.
(DIR) Post #AAOtHVhNNMyfJ1MMgy by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:08:25.775767Z
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@BCLADY @diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee We are not here to have high level discussions about refugees. I made a very specific suggestion to prioritize women and girls from Afghanistan since they are at the gravest dangers. That was the single point made my me but then unexpectedly I started getting called a racist and that were the conversation went awry.I only made one point: prioritize women and girls from Afghanistan
(DIR) Post #AAOtN7Xq5m7m8DZf8q by Linnas@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:04:54.260180Z
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@BCLADY @diversity_racket @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf The Babylon Bee made a great video on "whiteness". I always share it with those who encounter a CRT zealot for the first time.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNhCJ6tNerY
(DIR) Post #AAOtOfHs7kOT4UqGa8 by diversity_racket@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:09:06.893992Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADY @Berco @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf Lol, thanks :) I think some people thrive on it -- I think there's a lot of anger and this a way to get it out. Also, I think many of us spend way too much online. We lose sight of what's important. Thanks for sharing this :D
(DIR) Post #AAOtiSDMRCqaJpAUOu by Weirdbutboring@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:05:50.891648Z
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@Ismat this conversation is very weird and Iâm trying to figure it out. Personally Iâm OK with only allowing women and children as refugees, because they have so much to lose right now and because men are very much so higher risk. But forcing women to be totally cut off from their male relatives, not allowing them the same rights as other immigrants, itâs barbaric and cruel and totally unnecessary.
(DIR) Post #AAOuSBILg0LPAGJ0Gu by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:54:01.105319Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat stop employing liberal feminist handbook. "don't impede on Afghan women's AGENCY", "respect their CHOICE", "Let them save themselves on their OWN TERMS"You are at best consciously evil or incredible naive. Why can't you just step out of this conversation and let the radical feminists talk? You got your "good woman" , "good wife" points, just go. Stop trying to convince us that there are good, feminist Afghan man that are genuinely adored and loved by their oppressed Afghan wives and how evil we are to separate these two unicorns. JUST GO AND REST
(DIR) Post #AAOuSBpJhQiQoVjKeu by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:40:47.193545Z
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@virginiawolf @Furball @Ismat I'm not standing up for men. I'm standing up for women who deserve better than some armchair activist breaking up their family because of their Western racist perceptions that the entire culture of Afghanistan is monolithic, backwards and regressive. This is a polarized place in which conservatives often KILL dissenters. That doesn't mean that dissenters don't exist. Men in general are trash. I've posted that many times. That doesn't mean I have the right to break up families and deny another woman her relationship "for her own good". You want to infantilize women and make sweeping decisions that will have horrific repercussions for them. Consider this- for the happily married women who DO want to leave and are willing to leave on their own, that decision is less destructive in their lives if they are the ones to decide, instead of a foreign government making that choice FOR them, and in the process of doing so, setting the precedent that these women can expect to be treated as powerless chattel in their new host country.
(DIR) Post #AAOuSCHK1J7KDMphJI by Haru_Okumura@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:48:34.585948Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf @Furball @Ismat Sad that these women are sticking to ideological purity rather than trying to make meaningful change. Of course everyone is going to back-pat each other in this echo chamber, but these bullshit proposals will not work out in the real world.
(DIR) Post #AAOuSCloBxVHjv62pU by Sycaid@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:00:27.593194Z
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@Haru_Okumura @Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf It's also unrealistic. Who the fuck in their right mind actually thinks women and girls who actually love their male family members would willingly leave them behind, never to see them again?! If someone told me that in order to survive I had to leave my own father and brother behind, forever, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. I'll take the risk and stay.
(DIR) Post #AAOuSDFaPFK5EH1pFA by Weirdbutboring@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:21:24.581058Z
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@Sycaid @Haru_Okumura @Furball @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf I personally have a good Afghani friend whose mother left with her and her sister while her father stayed behind to fight the Taliban. He died fighting. I think many parents would prefer to be separated despite their love for each other, if it meant their children would be safer.
(DIR) Post #AAOuSDgsll9oavncn2 by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:27:13.479518Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Weirdbutboring @Sycaid @Furball @Haru_Okumura @Ismat @virginiawolf I agree, I think many parents would make that choice. I don't judge them for that. I just want it to be their own choice.
(DIR) Post #AAOulL8VJMMHBkpurY by Furball@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T23:38:57.842929Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Ismat @virginiawolf But someone is suggesting WOCs are monolithic and we all have males that are so dear to us even in a more suffocating patriarchy society than yours??
(DIR) Post #AAOulLfTKmjIq0GFFY by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:07:21.429364Z
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@Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf Who is suggesting that ALL WOC have males that are dear to them? How many times to I have to make the point that I want women to have the right to choose whether they come alone, or bring family with them???? Meanwhile, a handful of idiots are screeching "NO MEN NO MATTER WHAT!!" which is not constructive, and may prevent some women from wanting to leave.
(DIR) Post #AAOulM6PicHSBYrlFA by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:12:08.685984Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat You made your point, multiple WOC didnt agree. Why can't you just leave??? You have done enough damage to this conversation.
(DIR) Post #AAOulMZ7zrFVccIh04 by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:44:21.443164Z
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@virginiawolf @Furball @Ismat You don't have the right to kick me out of a conversation. And quite a lot of women do agree with me, and they agree with the OP. If you don't like my comments, block me, but stop lying about what I say and mean. Your ceaseless mendacity is tiresome.
(DIR) Post #AAOulN18JjeP1TP3eS by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:47:51.501602Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat rest then if you are tired. You relentless effort to gaslight ex-muslim women is so malicious.
(DIR) Post #AAOulNT8dc3IQKVQIq by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:57:21.875081Z
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@virginiawolf @Furball @Ismat How am I gaslighting anyone. My position is respectful toward Afghan women. Your position is demeaning and bullying, depriving them of the ability to make decisions for themselves. You are projecting your racist preconceptions onto every Afghan woman's lived experience. The malice is entirely on your part, not mine.
(DIR) Post #AAOulNvUwAjlqHm4VU by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:00:33.012812Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat Wow you are quite a troll. You are now backpedaling to talk about Afghan women after completely derailing me from talking about women. I genuinely feel sorry that all the time in the world didnt teach you anything. Stop attacking me, I told you to back off me many times.
(DIR) Post #AAOulOPd88q9Ljs8TQ by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:06:51.888005Z
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@virginiawolf @Furball @Ismat 1) This conversation does not belong to you. 2) I have derailed nothing. Successfully countering your stupid opinions is called debate. 3) You told me to back off? Where? You told me to leave the conversation, which you don't have the right to do. If anyone is attacking, it's you. You can use your block feature. 4) Report me. Please. I could use a good laugh.
(DIR) Post #AAOulOtPLQewq5nut6 by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:15:35.307182Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat I am sorry I have entertained your psychological game for this long. Multiple women here noticed that all you want is to brag about your love life and seem taller in comparison to poor Afghan women, you never wanted to talk about Afghan girls in the first place. You want to prove something to yourself, and you used this thread. I know realize this and no longer want to participate in soothing your wounds. I will block you, please block me also.
(DIR) Post #AAOulPKhhwUgCkZiQy by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:28:59.297305Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@virginiawolf @Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat you Addressing Jennifer? Iâm missing Some things because some folks have me blocked but if your talking about blocking her then youâre doing yourself a favour, sheâs disingenuous af
(DIR) Post #AAOviuOpqWjndpsbXE by Sycaid@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:33:16.435936Z
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@Weirdbutboring @Furball @Haru_Okumura @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf Sure, but they were given a choice. And if I had a child, I'd leave too for my child's sake. Certain other's in this long thread seem to think the girls and women shouldn't have a choice; that if they want to escape, they should be forced to leave behind family members just because those family members happen to be male, and that those boys and men can basically go fuck themselves.It's bonkers.
(DIR) Post #AAOviutfzrPLBUJEbg by RadfemLeah@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:43:01.856304Z
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@Sycaid @Weirdbutboring @Furball @Haru_Okumura @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf a woman I call mum had the option to leave for USA. She declined opting to stay with a family she isnât even blood related too. Technically they are her employees. She doesnât want to leave her home and certainly not cut all ties to her homeland. It is cruel to expect women to forget their language, heritage and family. They have already suffered so much lost. It is easy for us to pass judging statements here by we will never Be able to fully comprehend how it is for people on the ground. We say here 20 years, 20 years for what? This is not 20 years for Afghans this is 40+ Years. Adults and children born in hostility and war never experiencing peace.
(DIR) Post #AAOwQTcilBjRL49Kfg by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:26:55.039070Z
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@virginiawolf @Furball @Ismat We all live under patriarchy. I have a loving relationship with a man because he finds all of the things you listed horrifying, and he actively works to educate other men to not be misogynist scumbags. The majority of men aren't like this. I'm not defending men in general. But your list is full of "ifs" for a reason. There are exceptions, and there are women who have a deep, loving connection with a man. Perhaps you need to have such a relationship yourself in order to understand the value of such a connection. Empathy is the ability to put yourself into another person's shoes and see things from their perspective. Why is it so difficult for you to just admit that Afghan women deserve the right to decide for themselves whether to leave on their own or bring their families? Who are YOU to dictate conditions to these women as the price for their rescue?
(DIR) Post #AAOwQU8Grsy8uuuWqe by Furball@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:42:22.270223Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf @Ismat đđđđ Stop projecting your love life onto those poor women ffs
(DIR) Post #AAOwQUcP3r4WQN0aoa by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:46:32.835528Z
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@Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf Stop projecting your solipsism onto the lives of women in relationships. For the zillionth time, I support helping women and children who want to leave on their own. I do not support FORCING WOMEN TO GIVE UP THEIR FAMILIES.
(DIR) Post #AAOwQV7bBs1dz7bVRI by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:09:59.110096Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat Did you hear what she said? Nobody is interested in your love life!I am seriously telling you this woman is here to feel taller about her love life in comparison to poor Afghan women, she is trying to prove something to herself. We are victims of her psychological game.
(DIR) Post #AAOwQVb1QTYrSNN0Ii by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:11:51.783617Z
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@virginiawolf @Furball @Ismat You have zero empathy. That's on you. It's really bizarre that you are assuming every women in Afghanistan is a separatist who wants nothing at all to do with men.
(DIR) Post #AAOwQW4Rf564vd8VA8 by hoolashoot@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:19:19.849911Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf @Furball @Ismat Women separatism is a luxury, because men do things useful in harsh climates that women are too busy or smart to do but that must be done. Please respect the lineages and histories of these women. They are not you. And "feminism" may be a misnomer for them or a euphemism
(DIR) Post #AAOxjEYb6KVO4DjEtE by lucretiamott@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:32:20.002336Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf @Furball @Ismat "The majority of men aren't like this. I'm not defending men in general."does not compute
(DIR) Post #AAOxjF21Kw2bXTUjke by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:56:17.859030Z
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@lucretiamott @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf "I have a loving relationship with a man because he finds all of the things you listed horrifying, and he actively works to educate other men to not be misogynist scumbags." The majority of men are not like this. The majority of men are not kind and reasonable and supportive of women. What does not compute? The majority of men are NOT like this. My point is that the person that I'm in a relationship with is unusual, but having a good relationship with a man is not an impossibility, contrary to the claims other women are making here. It's grotesquely racist to assume that 100% of all the men in the lives of Middle Eastern women are automatically terrible people.
(DIR) Post #AAOxjFZLL2hDCp5Lgu by lucretiamott@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:58:57.395461Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf Echoing others, can you please stop talking about your perfect husband. It's so tiresome. Go spend some time with him why don't you
(DIR) Post #AAP0aeP1wCrNTxqvA0 by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:43:33.432001Z
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@Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf I would not have mentioned my fucking love life AT ALL if certain LIARS didn't keep claiming that NO WOMAN can have a loving relationship with a man. Fuck you for demeaning my own lived experience and relationships. It's such a disingenuous cheap shot to punish any mention of a personal relationship with a man on Spinster and suggesting doing so turns the speaker into a libfem. YOU and virginiawolf expect to spew ridiculously dishonest statements with no pushback. I'm not promoting hetero relationships, stanning for men, or trying to insert my Nigel where he doesn't belong. The FACT is that there ARE women who are in relationships with men who find those relationships rewarding and important to them, and YOU don't get to pretend that Afghan women don't have the potential to have relationships that are positive and respectful. By demanding that we only accept women into asylum countries, you are going to place a terrible choice on the shoulders of women who are already seriously traumatized. That is the bottom line.
(DIR) Post #AAP0aey7pivtEoGwrY by LuvGreenTea2019@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T02:38:10.945856Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf I'm glad that you are in a loving relationship. The sex of your partner shouldn't matter as long as you are happy. Good for you. Lesbian, bisexual, or straight doesn't matter. "The FACT is that there ARE women who are in relationships with men who find those relationships rewarding and important to them, and YOU don't get to pretend that Afghan women don't have the potential to have relationships that are positive and respectful. By demanding that we only accept women into asylum countries, you are going to place a terrible choice on the shoulders of women who are already seriously traumatized."If they have a good loving relationship based on mutual respect, and the husband isn't part of the Taliban, sells opium or weapons then there is no reason to deny the couple asylum in my opinion. Sons should be welcome as long as they don't demonstrate a propensity for violence, disrespect women, or are connected to the Taliban, opium, weapons running, etc. Having said this, I believe women and girls should have priority when it comes to asylum because they are clearly the most oppressed. I'm not saying exclude males. You sound like an intelligent woman. I'm sure you know life is usually hell on earth for Afghan girls and women. Forced to wear burqas that hide their entire body, beaten, denied an education, attacked with acid, married off to a man twice her age. This is the problem. A lot of Afghan fathers and men in general have no respect whatsoever for their girls and women. That is, unless they can sell their daughters. Make no mistake. The Taliban sure as hell will kill, torture, and rape girls and women, and sell 13 or 14 year old girls off to some 40 year old man. Girls and women should absolutely have priority when it comes to asylum. Afghan women's rights activist: The Taliban 'will come and kill me'As the Taliban make rapid gains in Afghanistan, women in the country are concerned about their future. An Afghan women's rights activist told DW her life may be in danger if the Islamist militants attack Kabul.https://www.dw.com/en/afghan-womens-rights-activist-the-taliban-will-come-and-kill-me/a-58861827This article is less than a week old. The rape of Afghanistan: Advancing Taliban go door-to-door and forcibly take girls as young as TWELVE to be sex slave 'wives' for their fighters as they sweep across country following NATO withdrawalhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9883367/Taliban-going-door-door-forcibly-marrying-girls-young-TWELVE.htmlIn Afghanistan, Fathers Barter Daughters to Settle Drug Debtshttps://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/07/in-afghanistan-fathers-barter-daughters-to-settle-drug-debts/278217/âWe accept $3,500 to marry our 5 year-old daughter to fit pay for our son medical treatment"https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/tori-48041519Nine-year-old child bride reportedly killed by husband in Afghanistanhttps://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/jul/31/nine-year-old-child-bride-reportedly-killed-by-husband-afghanistanAfghan girls traded like currency to settle debtshttps://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna19680546
(DIR) Post #AAP0mgaVdhInjaxcci by Matoriel@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:23:44.069855Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@virginiawolf @Furball me, a literal ex-muslim woman who lived her whole life with abusive m*slim men be like: ............yea totally understandable totally believable not lies at all
(DIR) Post #AAP2SdQlrq1E3kyLjc by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T02:52:28.054642Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@LuvGreenTea2019 @Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat thank you for collecting the information, I am glad we are back on track talking about Afghan women and not Jennifer's love life and her perfect husband. "If they have a good loving relationship based on mutual respect, and the husband isn't part of the Taliban, sells opium or weapons then there is no reason to deny the couple asylum in my opinion."That is a lot of ifs, don't you think these women are then slightly safer than women with bad husbands and underage girls? Shouldn't women without perfect husbands and underage girls given priority then? The capacity for refugees is limited why not fill up that quota with the most vulnerable group of people? Maybe the way to enforce it is not through sex but through certain requirements that end up benefiting women and girls, like a score system to measure how likely you are to get raped, refused education, tortured and killed.
(DIR) Post #AAP3dp3z3gBvHDDEFU by Furball@spinster.xyz
2021-08-16T16:16:01.521550Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Jennifer_Lee @Ismat With these Afghan men? Lmao
(DIR) Post #AAP78KecT6CxnuaWQq by virginiawolf@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T00:57:23.069699Z
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@Nicotiana @GCat @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket Yes, even in this thread some women feel the need to bring up their husbands and suggest other women to go date men. Male-serving mentality is so strong that they can't even focus on Afghan women and girl issue without bringing in men into the conversation.
(DIR) Post #AAP78LE4LIZ3ZrApge by GCat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T03:49:34.335935Z
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@virginiawolf I canât see the full thread since Iâve been blocked by some people, but that sounds like a trip lol. Interestingly (and I donât know the stats on this so I could be wrong) it seems like most refugees and asylum seekers are young men under the age of 30. They are the ones who are strongest enough to flee a war torn country and survive the journey in one piece. Those men are leaving behind their wives, sisters, daughters, mothers. When women are so defensive of their men (to the point that they claim that they would be willing to stay in a war zone to be kidnapped and raped as long as they were with their male relatives) are they also judgmental of young men who flee without their women?
(DIR) Post #AAP9S7EeGjZRt00AAC by ducc@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T04:06:25.285857Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ismat @fpcgggc @TheDeadlyBeauty the issue isn't "brown men are dangerous", it's "men are dangerous so let's not bring more bloody men in"
(DIR) Post #AAP9dWZKQ5CRds7A3M by sunspot@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T04:19:32.534199Z
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@GCat @virginiawolf Friendly fact fem here. You are correct. Asylum seekers tend to be young and male.
(DIR) Post #AAPD4FyAXkk7qEAjMe by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T04:50:43.726078Z
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@GCat @Nicotiana @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @diversity_racket @virginiawolf if you were a shopkeeper in Kabul & you knew the Taliban were coming, and you'd been living with the reality of their brutality for the last 25++ years, what would you do? people do what they need to do to survive. nothing in his response suggests he's ok with it, that he thinks it's fine. If the choice is grow a beard & make sure that the women in your life are not going to be publicly beaten by the morality police, or watch them be publicly beaten & shamed, and possibly killed, what would you do?i think it's far too easy to sit far away and pass judgements on what people do in circumstances that most of us cannot imagine. Of course there's misogyny in afghanistan. of course there is. there's also a lot of absolute, abject, wholly realistic terror of the Taliban. And people do what they need to do to survive. We have no idea at all what that shopkeeper thinks about anything. He described what he's doing, not why he's doing it.
(DIR) Post #AAPEvhiODVHNC7qCY4 by Rogue_Koala@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T05:17:20.937566Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Exactly, it's similar to in the west the amount of homosexuals and blacks. Who vote Democrat not because they in reality Democrats. But because they believe the dems have their interests at heart.If I was in Afghan my daughters wod be in burkas. Not as a means of deep personal conviction as to their practice. Bit out of necessity to protect them in such a social climate.Some people have to stay where they are no matter the political upheaval.I've spent most of my life, hiding and playing down the fact I'm gay and I live in the UK.I can't imagine what living there must be like. @grace_hawthorn @GCat @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @Nicotiana @diversity_racket @virginiawolf
(DIR) Post #AAPGDc1UDa8QhwsP6O by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T05:31:53.527333Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@GCat @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @Nicotiana @diversity_racket @virginiawolf my feminist friends in Kabul have bought burkas and will be wearing them from now on. It doesn't mean anything about their feminism other than that they don't want to die. Their sons are trying to protect them. I would do the same, if i were them. what else is there to be done?
(DIR) Post #AAPXaRrJs80F49b0QC by Furball@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:27:13.440181Z
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@virginiawolf I really don't think you should engage in this conversation any further, it's a consensus among us Chinese radfems that some married women are prone to siphon energy off single womenđ€·đ»ââïž so we should prolly focus on actually helping women than fighting a lost cause here
(DIR) Post #AAPXaSStcQ3owhB0zY by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T01:45:50.855380Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Furball @virginiawolf And now I'm "siphoning your energy" because you cannot effectively defend your position. What a pathetic asshole.
(DIR) Post #AAPmwFmmwGHBIzKeHI by GCat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T05:09:18.655211Z
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@grace_hawthorn @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @Nicotiana @diversity_racket @virginiawolf This is a good point and as I stated, it is not really possible to understand this one personâs political and social beliefs from a single statement. However, my more general point is that men *are* dismissive of womenâs suffering and they *do* enable the abuse of women out of apathy or even because they benefit from it. This is not something unique to any race or culture or time period. I am not an advocate for female separatism or female-only asylum but I do think women need to start making decisions with their own best interests in mind. Sometimes, that does mean leaving male relatives behind (and Iâd like to point out that men seem to have no trouble leaving women behind in difficult circumstances.)
(DIR) Post #AAPmwGJOz0Mcw8ah72 by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T08:32:50.928747Z
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@GCat @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @Nicotiana @diversity_racket @virginiawolf i think we need to trust that women are making the best decisions they can in circumstances WAY beyond their control or our imagination. it doesn't help anyone, least of all women, to be wittering here about what you think women *should* do. Unless you're an Afghan woman in Kabul, you really don't know what you're talking about. Maybe start listening, instead?
(DIR) Post #AAPmyoBO1VpiZ23WYS by GCat@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T05:39:58.821984Z
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@grace_hawthorn @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @Nicotiana @diversity_racket @virginiawolf The vast majority of women are trapped. And I agree with you, they should do whatever it takes to get through the next few years. But, the ones who have the option and the means to flee should do so. Even if it means leaving their loved ones behind.
(DIR) Post #AAPmyod2Mhx1wmzbea by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T08:30:37.363349Z
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@GCat @Berco @ImpoliteFemale @Ismat @Jennifer_Lee @Nicotiana @diversity_racket @virginiawolf under no circumstances am I about to tell anyone what they *should* do in a situation most of us can barely imagine. let's try starting from a position of understanding that everyone is desperate, everyone is doing the best they can with what they've got, and those of us that have never been refugees need to be supporting people in the decisions they're making rather than pontificating about what they *should* do.it's shit. the whole thing is shit. people are terrified. Lots of them are going to die. Men and women, lots are going to die. what we think they *should* do is wholly irrelevant. As is projecting into people's motives.
(DIR) Post #AAQmaOCDBTECAxl2rg by ducc@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T14:04:15.877042Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @virginiawolf @Furball @Ismat you seem to be ignoring the fact that we're talking about a society where women Are treated as cattle, they literally aren't allowed autonomydo you have any idea how much that fucks with a person's head? many women in that situation are going to be willing to sponsor their male relatives because that's the only life they've ever known, even if said relatives will continue to abuse them and other women
(DIR) Post #AAQmaOhPJUBJjiLxUO by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T21:04:07.417047Z
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@ducc @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf Again, you are infantilizing these women, assuming they cannot make the decision for themselves. The last thing these women need is more paternalism coming from those who claim to want to help them.
(DIR) Post #AAQmaP8LhJjT5GxTU0 by ducc@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T21:23:51.808962Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf again, you're pretending that they have rights and completely ignoring that they have not only female socialisation but Islamic fundamentalist female socialisation - i.e. it is pounded into their heads violently since birth that they exist only to serve the men in their livesto give you an idea of what violent socialisation is like: i had received sexual abuse as a child by my mother's ex husband bc he wanted a son, he would abuse me if i acted too feminine or acknowledged being femalenote that this only lasted from 4 to 14, only 10 years, and to this day i have severe anxiety about not dressing boyish or acting femininenow imagine that's not only one person, but your entire culture, and not only 10 years, but your entire life.
(DIR) Post #AAQmaPdBqeP0cvO6YS by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T21:38:27.474149Z
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@ducc @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf Did you know there are atheists in Afghanistan? There are Christians and Buddhists, too, as well as moderate Muslims. Who is building the secret schools for girls? Who is supporting them getting a college degree, opening their own businesses, and having careers? Yet, they've done all of this. Do you think the women who accomplished these things did so in a vacuum? These are the women who need asylum now, and many may want to bring their families with them, because their families prefer living in a free society, away from fundamentalist Islamic oppression. I'm sorry you experienced abuse as a child. You didn't deserve to go through that. Every child's experience is not the same. Nor is every woman's experience in Afghanistan the same. "Before war began tearing Afghanistan apart in the 1980s, Afghan women earned university degrees, had careers, and enjoyed personal freedoms. Class determined which Afghan women had access to certain opportunities, and urban elite women were the primary beneficiaries of Afghan modernization efforts, but the potential for the expansion of womenâs rights was there. The sharp contrasts in images of Afghan women then and now show just how drastically war has transformed Afghan womenâs lives. Twentieth-century Afghan history reveals that the conflict over womenâs rights specifically and modernization more generally is not one that necessarily pits Afghanistan against the West but rather pits conservative Afghan elements against Afghans with a progressive vision for the future and, in some cases, a memory of Afghanistanâs modern past."https://hmstur.wordpress.com/2014/11/23/afghan-women-and-a-modern-past/
(DIR) Post #AAQmaQ81zz4YAZojcu by ducc@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T21:53:44.014490Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf what i'm saying is, those schools are secret for a reason - it's because women are thought so little of as to be treated as undeserving of even educationof course some will be able to fight against this, but with that kind of conditioning do you really think the average woman subjected to it is going to be able to challenge it, let alone see how fucked it is or identify the issue as it is? most women here can't, and we're treated FAR better
(DIR) Post #AAQmaQbSEabldpaEUK by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T21:58:55.592935Z
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@ducc @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf I understand you perfectly. What I'M saying is that those schools exist for a reason- many Afghans do NOT approve of the conservative oppression of fundamentalist Islam, and they are determined to educate their daughters anyway, at the risk of their own lives! You are dismissive of the courage that these women have. They deserve respect, and they deserve the right to make decisions for themselves.
(DIR) Post #AAQmaR5wPEzjANqa0W by ducc@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T22:14:18.787629Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf i'm not dismissing it at all - i'm saying that it's way, WAY above what can be expected from the average person
(DIR) Post #AAQmaRa4bD66fpwdyS by ducc@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T22:16:21.629681Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf your argument is essentially "well not all of them are beaten into submission", which is true, but we need to acknowledge that "not all" is very different from "not most"
(DIR) Post #AAQmaS4CnBCUBI2hwO by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T22:27:30.368740Z
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@ducc @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf My argument is that Western women do not have the right to judge Afghan women on their ability to make decisions for themselves. The women who are trying to leave are courageous beyond words. They are sacrificing their homes, their belongings, their friends, their careers, and many other things we can't begin to imagine in order to seek asylum in a place where they might not know the language, their living situation is going to be precarious, and they are treated with suspicion, contempt, and in many cases outright hatred by the citizens of their new host countries. My heart goes out to them. The last thing I would want is to make their lives more difficult than they already are.
(DIR) Post #AU3IJWCSkBSPnsp00O by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T02:05:52.344768Z
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@lucretiamott @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf I RARELY mention him for the reason that immediately assholes like you take the cheap shot that you just did. As for this conversation, I just explained why I bothered to bring it up. Some idiots are denying that any woman can have a loving relationship with a man, and that is the reason they are using for wanting to deny Afghan women the choice to bring their families with them. We all live under patriarchy. That doesn't mean every woman is a separatist or wants to be. So you hate het women, got it. You're just another stupid bigot. Go fuck yourself.
(DIR) Post #AU3IJXXlkS5vyFnWr2 by feerique@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T03:26:13.418146Z
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@Jennifer_Lee This is giving me flashbacks to some of the worst aspects of the old GC sub. There was that persistent line of thinking that all hetero sex was rape and it was such a turn off for any curious women who were just starting to learn more about radfeminism. I personally think single men should be at the back of the line after families and single women but it's ridiculous to expect an afghan woman to abandon her husband and sons in order to qualify for refugee status. At least, that's how I read the initial ovarit post. If that's not what people support, then they should say so and stop moving goalposts. Also, I thought the separatist stuff was more of a meme. Holy shit, most women, white and other races, are not going to choose to live with random women they don't know compared to their actual male relatives. @lucretiamott @Furball @Ismat @virginiawolf
(DIR) Post #AU3IJZ1EGPFoXuaZPc by HarpyMarx@spinster.xyz
2021-08-17T03:58:12.093395Z
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@feerique @Jennifer_Lee @Furball @Ismat @lucretiamott @virginiawolf The way I see it, if we back biology, we back all of it: men and women exist and are not interchangeable, family units of some sort exist in all societies , women give birth to both males and females. These things will continue to exist, you canât pick and choose