Post A7wRW2iLwXP6ihlCL2 by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #A7wDRvIw9W21Dp0uHo by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T08:57:28.999939Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Intersex TED TalkUsually we think of intersexed people as not wanting to have the TRAs pull them into the argument. In this case, an intersexed person (who reads as TIM to me, maybe because of the entitlement, bitterness, and narcissism) puts himself at the center of the T because he has bad feels about his birth defect. Harsh, but true. He probably resents women for the same reason they all do, because he doesn't pass. The audience in the video seems wary. They know something is off here. The most disturbing part of his speech is the lie about how many intersexed people there are. He claims 2% of the population is intersexed. Then he asks the audience if they have had their chromosomes tested. So apparently, that 2% contains ALL people with chromosomal anomalies, whether they exhibit mixed secondary physical sex characteristics or not. This distortion of the truth would be laughable if this were not a TED Talk. https://www.ted.com/talks/emily_quinn_the_way_we_think_about_biological_sex_is_wrong?utm_campaign=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=2021-6-4&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR1axJOp17pFlvTowwNRBl09FpS7Mee9-hd9ZLOUENNfrosjoYwiCQJ9T_E#t-234695
(DIR) Post #A7wRW2iLwXP6ihlCL2 by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T11:59:29.915442Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Jennifer_Lee This person's male (her reproductive system is male, therefore she's male) but I don't think it's fair to call her a he. She was born with a vagina, and has had an outwardly female-typical body since birth, which means she's been subject to misogyny in the same way we have. This person is a woman.TRAs try to use exceptions like these to say, "Well, if they're counted as female/women, why aren't we? You can't have it both ways." Well, actually, we can. Intersex women (male women) have a genetic abnormality which means they're technically male in terms of their internal reproductive system but are otherwise totally female-typical. TW have no such genetic abnormality and are male in every sense, and they have no idea what it's like to experience girlhood or adolescence as a girl. I mean, yeah, she doesn't menstruate, but she still grew breasts, has a female frame, and probably had men gawping at her and subjecting her to sexual harassment since she was a child or teenager. Just like the rest of us.Just because TW use intersex women as a gotcha doesn't mean we should turn our backs on them. We can have it both ways.
(DIR) Post #A7wRW3JDjStWZ30dns by firebird2110@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T12:07:57.412919Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@MaidenMotherCrone @Jennifer_Lee I don't think it's fair for her to throw women under the trans bus.
(DIR) Post #A7wSiLUq2OzaOtrxNw by sunspot@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T12:22:28.681068Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@firebird2110 Handmaidens come in all shapes, sizes, and chromosomes @MaidenMotherCrone @Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7wVBAQsS4heOPt5Ae by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T12:50:06.192832Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@MaidenMotherCrone @Jennifer_Lee CAN WE HAVE A SEX NEUTRAL PRONOUN?BECAUSE SEEING YOU SAY SOMEONE IS MALE THEN WRITE THE "SHE" PRONOUNS FEELS LIKE A DEGRADATION OF BOUNDARIES.IT MAKES ME THINK OF NEWS ARTICLES WHO REPORT SEX CRIMINALS AS "SHE" WHILE BEING OBVIOUSLY MALE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES. I ADMIT THIS IS A UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE, BUT I BELIEVE THAT WHILE THIS PERSON DEFINATELY RECIEVED FEMALE SOCIALISATION AS THEY WERE RAISED AND SEEN BY OTHERS AS A FEMALE, THEY ARE NOT IF THEY ARE DISORDERED AND HAVE MALE GONANS.THIS COMES FROM THE FACT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE SEX AND GENDER TO BE INTERCHANGABLE AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T AS AN INDIVIDUAL BECAUSE THERE IS NO CONSENSUS, IT CONTRIBUTES TO CONFUSION. BRING BACK THEE! REDUCE SEX/GENDER CONFUSION FUCKERY.
(DIR) Post #A7wVWU5eYnEdRQ7nd2 by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T12:53:00.498513Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADY I agree this is an issue. While I do think @MaidenMotherCrone has a point, I’m also not entirely comfortable with the “she is male” construction either. Unfortunately I have no idea how to solve this issue. @MaidenMotherCrone @Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7wVZT8uXUlTN64VtI by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T12:54:29.753235Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone THEE!IT'S THE SEX NEUTRAL PRONOUN THAT HAS THE E ADDED TO INCLUDE EVERYONE!
(DIR) Post #A7wW3x181zXoiGxz9s by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T12:56:47.042119Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADY But… it already means the object form of the singular second person pronoun. What we need is an appropriate third person pronoun. @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone
(DIR) Post #A7wW3xSmNBf861u4G0 by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T12:59:59.637518Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone I DON'T HAVE ONE BUT IF ONE MORE PERSON TRIES TO MAKE A SINGULAR "THEM" A THING BECAUSE THEY WANT TO NOT BE SEEN AS THEIR SEX WHICH IS CONNECTED TO OTHER SPECIAL DEMANDS, I AM GOING TO SCREAM MY LITTLE HAMSTER BRAINS OUT. ALSO PROBABLY CHEW OFF MY OWN HANDS.THEE IS THE BEST I CAN COME UP WITH BECAUSE GENDER SPECIALS WRECKED THE IDEA OF HAVING A SEX NEUTRAL SINGULAR PRONOUN BY BEING SO FORCEFUL AND CREATING EXPOSNENTIALLY LARGER AMOUNTS OF PRONOUNS/GENDER LABELS THAT I WANNA CLING TO THE PAST.
(DIR) Post #A7wW5UfqNjYnO3kLJI by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T12:58:10.501164Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADY Fun fact: a sex neutral pronoun would be called an epicene pronoun. In this case the specific term would be epicene third person pronoun. @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone
(DIR) Post #A7wWDHsdpdms1cRsoa by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:01:41.029355Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone FUNNER FACT: BAD GRAMMAR IS FUNNY AND IF I DO ACTUALLY BITE MY OWN HANDS OFF I MAY BE SEEN AS CRAZY ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY CATER TO!HAVING MY EMOTIONAL DISTRESS AT WORDS CATERED TO IS ONLY A FEW NIBBLES AWAY~!
(DIR) Post #A7wWh2qIJ5B04cXYo4 by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:07:04.214839Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone COME ON GNOME, YOU KNOW YOU WANNA FUNNER COMMENT.GO AHEAD, CALL ME STUPIDER. YOU ARE WHOM IS PROBABLY BOTHERED BY UPSETTI GRAMMA
(DIR) Post #A7wWxfqH4glLf7SbPk by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:06:55.053694Z
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@BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee "IT MAKES ME THINK OF NEWS ARTICLES WHO REPORT SEX CRIMINALS AS "SHE" WHILE BEING OBVIOUSLY MALE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES."I get that, but that's TW. Intersex women are a totally different case. We can't lump the two together, like TW want so much."I ADMIT THIS IS A UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE, BUT I BELIEVE THAT WHILE THIS PERSON DEFINATELY RECIEVED FEMALE SOCIALISATION AS THEY WERE RAISED AND SEEN BY OTHERS AS A FEMALE, THEY ARE NOT IF THEY ARE DISORDERED AND HAVE MALE GONANS."I agree she's not female. She's male, but she's still a woman."THIS COMES FROM THE FACT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE SEX AND GENDER TO BE INTERCHANGABLE AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T AS AN INDIVIDUAL BECAUSE THERE IS NO CONSENSUS, IT CONTRIBUTES TO CONFUSION."This doesn't have to have anything to do with gender. I think it can be more down to a sex identity rather than a gender identity. It's reasonable that someone who is outwardly female in every way and has been so since birth can think of themselves as a woman despite having an internal, non-functional male reproductive system.It's a tricky circumstance but it's all the more reason to discuss it.Like, if you consider sports, for example. She talked about how her testes are unresponsive to testosterone and don't produce sperm. That leads me to believe she has no sex-based advantage over other women, whereas someone like Caster Semenya, for example, does produce testosterone which does give her a sex-based advantage over other women. I don't know enough about intersex conditions to know where to draw the line in every case. It might literally be whether or not their testes are functional or produce sperm.
(DIR) Post #A7wWxgGVV9kKyTjYIq by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:10:04.243052Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @Jennifer_Lee BUT YOU ALREADY DREW A LINE BY USING SHE/HER PRONOUNS?WHAT WOULD EVEN BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SEX IDENTITY VS GENDER IDENTITY? WHAT DO YOU EVEN MEAN BY THAT?WHENEVER SOMEONE SAYS "HER" AND TALKS ABOUT TESTICLES I THINK OF JOHNATHAN YANIV SUEING THOSE POOR WOMEN TO GER "HER TESTICALS" WAXED. YOU ARE CLAIMING NOT TO DRAW A LINE BUT THEN DOING EXACTLY THAT?WHA?
(DIR) Post #A7wXC415zVQggzNq7c by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:10:11.507838Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee That's because our movement is based on the idea that "women = adult human female", which I think is basically right, but with some exceptions. I wouldn't know how to word a more accurate slogan. But basically, we should be focusing on sex-based rights for women. Intersex women may need/benefit from some of that as well, but that doesn't mean that TW can sneak into female-only spaces because they've decided one day that growing boobs through HRT means they're female. We have to be able to draw the line somewhere without alienating women with DSD, because they're us; we have to make sure they're safe from male violence and sex-based oppression as well. They may be technically male, but they do experience sex-based oppression, unlike TW.
(DIR) Post #A7wXC4X04swyHwJJqq by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:12:39.832380Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee CAN YOU BACK UP AND DEFINE WOMAN?ALSO WHAT IS TO STOP MALES FROM FALSELY CLAIMING INTERSEX STATUS BECAUSE IT IS CONVINIENT?I'D SAY DRAW THE LINE CASE BY CASE BECAUSE CONTEXT IS SUPER IMPORTANT.SPORTS ARE DIFFERENT FROM SHELTERS FROM RUNNING A RAPE CRISES CENTER FROM LANGUAGE.
(DIR) Post #A7wXIOf29KIOSN5GnQ by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:13:07.667226Z
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@BCLADY Here’s a bundle of Anlo-Saxon pronouns. Just so you have more than one option to choose from. https://germanic.ge/en/ang/reference/pronoun-paradigms/#sec32@Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone
(DIR) Post #A7wXIP8SNvpbvcqleq by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:13:48.687606Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone OH!COOL!THANKS!
(DIR) Post #A7wXezp4f9mE5DYZSC by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:17:09.686489Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADYNot that many people would exhibit excitement when provided a list of pronouns from an extinct language.I appreciate very much that you just did. @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone
(DIR) Post #A7wXoIRym998SgBm40 by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:19:16.367355Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADY @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee I'd say a woman is someone observed or assumed female at birth. So someone with an outwardly female-typical body since birth.You'd have to draw further lines in different circumstances because I don't think it's fair that someone with the physical advantage of testosterone should be competing against women in sports for example.
(DIR) Post #A7wXoiQoB7et2ZqCqe by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:19:32.742237Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADY @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee You make a really good point because we HAVE to be able to draw this line.
(DIR) Post #A7wYJgfOn09yXpQy9Y by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:25:14.977273Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee I'M JUST TRIED OF FETISHISTS USING RHETORIC TO GET OFF ON OTHER'S DISCOMFORT.AND THEY WILL USE ANYTHING AVAILABLE. I THINK HAVING UNDERSTOOD AND AGREED UPON DEFINITIONS IS THE BEST SOLUTION FOR THIS. I ALSO THINK IT'S FAIR TO DRAW A LINE WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLE IN REAL LIFE WHO MAYBE STRUGGLING WITH PROBLEMS/GOALS BUT HOLD A DIFFERENT STANDARD WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLE PROMOTING AN IDEA. I MEAN I DON'T WANT ANYONE TO SUFFER FROM ABUSE, AT THE END OF THE DAY TRUTH AND SAFETY IS WHAT IT BOILS DOWN TO.THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING YOUR CONCEPT OF SEX IDENTITY. I WAS RAISED (AS WAS PRETTY MUCH EVERY CANADIAN EVER) WITH PRONOUNS BEING SEX BASED AND CONSIDERING MY COUNTRY IS HELL BENT ON SUPRESSING SEX BASED LANGUAGE WHILE PRETENDING NOT TO, SEEING SOMEONE WRITE AS IF SEX IS COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED FROM PRONOUNS IS IRRITATING. I WILL HAVE TO MULL THIS OVER.
(DIR) Post #A7wYMepM5JSBhzVWDY by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:16:01.344268Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone That’s because our movement is based on the idea that “women = adult human female”, If you refer to my discomfort with this, I think it actually is because English pronouns are sex-based. It’s a much more fundamental issue than this particular political situation we’ve found ourselves in. But yeah, I don’t know how to square this circle. @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7wYMfKCEe7jFdw9I0 by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:25:47.618138Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @MaidenMotherCrone @Jennifer_Lee I THINK THEE DO 😉
(DIR) Post #A7wYRAhvUrslk2BXVo by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:26:36.778694Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone I LIKE LEARNING AND I LIKE YOU GNOME.EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T REACT TO MY BAD GRAMMA, IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU'VE FIGURED SOMETHING OUT WHEN IT COMES TO COMMUNICATION ONLINE.
(DIR) Post #A7wYe7WKeojjcbw7QO by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:26:21.871473Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee Yeah, I know, because this is where TW can stamp their feet and demand to be included as well despite not being the very special case of intersex women.
(DIR) Post #A7wYe7wv3y0Ix4NLrk by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:28:57.003217Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee OK BUT HAVE YOU CONSIDERED INCLUDING HAMSTER IN YOUR CONCEPT OF WOMEN?IF YOU DO I HAVE A FREE SCALP IN IT FOR YOU.
(DIR) Post #A7wYpG3rF9XXIOvdTc by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:28:20.851427Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee I don't think there's any harm in using sex-based she/her pronouns for intersex women. They're only male in an inconsequential way.
(DIR) Post #A7wYpGbBFGC8xkWFPs by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:30:57.207352Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@MaidenMotherCrone @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee I LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE A MAN LITERALLY SUED WOMEN TO WAX HIS LADY BALLS AND SPOKE A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT ABOUT BEING INTERSEX AND HAVING A PERIOD.SO CONSIDERING THAT IT CAN BE HIJACKED AS A CONCEPT AND IT WAS RESPECTED IN A HUMAN RIGHTS TRIBUNAL, LEADING TO A WOMAN LOOSING HER BUSINESS, I SEE A LOT TO BE WARY OF.CANADA IS CRAZY.I DON'T WANT THERE TO BE GENDER GOULAGS.
(DIR) Post #A7waHLvr6oF5ZC97XE by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:33:44.211919Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@MaidenMotherCronePossibly, but my discomfort isn’t just about (direct) potential harm, it’s about it not being strictly speaking correct within the pronoun system, and the potential effects thereof. I’ve spent a lion’s share of my adult life thinking about language, it’s impossible to turn it off at this point. @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7waHMMnUdnEukkdWq by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:38:41.979821Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee I don't think language is that strict.
(DIR) Post #A7waHMrddySmSPBGbI by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:47:14.483228Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @Gnomeshatecheese @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee If we want to maintain a simulacrum of order and progress, it has to be.Both law and science are based on linguistic precision.
(DIR) Post #A7waL6c40Vr5DHg6XA by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:47:55.649956Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone That would be it...
(DIR) Post #A7wf0yfgK9OgYtalJQ by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:52:27.165559Z
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@Clariana @BCLADY @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee That's true, but if these definitions don't include women with DSD then they're not precise in my opinion. Surely it's possible to write a definition that includes these sorts of variations.
(DIR) Post #A7wf0z8ObOMjzx1h4K by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T14:40:18.688881Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @Clariana @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee ACTUALLY IN CANADA IT'S SORT OF CONFUSING.OBLIGATORY I AM NOT A LAWYER BUT FROM MY UNDERSTANDING IT SEEMS LIKE WOMAN WASN'T LEGALLY DEFINED (ERG NOW IT IS, FUCKING THANKS DAVID LAMETTI) AS A CONCEPT. NOW WOMEN AT LEAST IN ONE PLACE, AS CONSIDERED THOSE WHO IDENTIFY AS ONE. BUT THERE'S A PART OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS CHARTER WHERE IT'S SET UP TO BASICALLY NOT PUT TWO GROUPS IN COMPETITION WITH EACH OTHER. SO IF YOU HAVE AN ORG, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE YOU HAVE A DEFINITION OF WOMEN BUT THAT YOU CAN HAVE A POLITICAL DEFINITION. BECAUSE TRANS CAN CHANGE THEIR BIRTH CERTS, THEY ARE LEGALLY CONSIDERED FEMALE. IT'S ALL REALLY FCUKING CONFUSING AND I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE CHALLENGES TOWARDS THIS CONCEPT BUT I AM WORRIED THAT THERE WILL BE NO JUSTICE CONSIDERING HOW FUCKED THINGS ARE WITH THE ATTOURNEY GENERAL IN THE FIRST PLACE. https://rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/BC-Court-of-Appeal-Reasons-for-Judgement-2005.pdf"By parity of reasoning, Rape Relief was not required to prove itsprimary purpose was the promotion of the interests of persons whowere "woman enough" to meet its "political definition" of women aspersons who had lived their entire lives as females in order to employonly persons who met that definition as peer counsellor trainees. Thisis because it had the bona fide belief that employment of only suchpersons benefited its clients from the "identifiable group", women,(however defined) by protecting them from the possible trauma ofdealing with persons its female clients, already traumatized by maleviolence, might perceive as male and therefore threatening or at least"not woman enough" and therefore unwelcome confidantes. https://rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/BC-Supreme-Court-Reasons-for-Judgement-Nixon-v-rape-relief_1.pdf[38] The fact that Ms. Nixon is “medically”female does not mean the fact she once had malecharacteristics is necessarily irrelevant to herparticipation in activities divided along male/femalelines. Her previous male characteristics could berelevant is some cases. Two examples come to mind.One is participation as a female subject of medicalresearch which sought to distinguish between malesand females as defined by chromosomal makeup, such asa study of baldness. A second is competition as afemale in certain sports.TAKEN FROM: https://rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/nixon-v-vancouver-rape-relief-society/SO POLITICALLY A WOMAN AND BEING MEDICALLY AND LEGALLY FEMALE CAN BE DIFFERENT THINGS. I REMEMBER SOMEONE CALLING CALL THE BIRTH CERT CHANGE A LEGAL FICTION.SO YEAH, BASICALLY I AM STILL CONFUSED. I WOULDN'T ISOLATE SOMEONE I PERCIEVE AS A DSD WOMAN FROM GETTING SAFETY BUT ANY WIGGLE ROOM HAS BEEN VISCIOUSLY ATTACKED BY DICKHEADS.I'M CONFUSED. CANADA IS CONFUSING. IT IS INTENDED TO BE CONFUSING. ACTIVISTS USE KINDNESS AND CONFUSION TO PUSH THEIR DESIRES AND GENDER ACTIVISTS DESIRE THE OBLITERATION OF SEX BASED SERVICES AND LANGUAGES IN CANADA AT THE MOMENT. CAN YOU FUCKING IMAGINE SUING A FUCKING RAPE RELIEF PLACE BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T LET YOU VOLTUNEER?WTF.
(DIR) Post #A7wf3n35zZVvNtsuxs by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:41:42.717067Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone Well, that much is clear. I’d say that it sort of is, but it kinda isn’t. Clear as mud, isn’t it. I view language first and foremost as a system, it has purposes and it has internal rules. And none of it is simple. @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7wfetCs3px9CG9CWO by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T14:44:06.650380Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADYACTIVISTS USE KINDNESS AND CONFUSION TO PUSH THEIR DESIRES AND GENDER ACTIVISTS DESIRE THE OBLITERATION OF SEX BASED SERVICES AND LANGUAGES IN CANADA AT THE MOMENTNot just Canada. This has been their m.o. where ever they are. They appeal to “kindness” while also having vastly disparate demands, definitions and agendas. The former gets past people’s reasoning and the latter makes it much more difficult to argue against them, because it allows them always run a motte and bailey strategy. @MaidenMotherCrone @Clariana @Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7wfySXMvW5oH64CNU by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:35:48.108720Z
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@BCLADY It’s probably just my apparently highly idiosyncratic sense of humour and way of connecting things. Also, my initial interpretation of “bad gramma” was “bad grandmother”, not “bad grammar”. And frankly I find that interpretation much more amusing. @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone
(DIR) Post #A7wiLIPKxD6bQYKKoK by Mote@kiwifarms.cc
2021-06-04T15:17:35.829423Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gnomeshatecheese @BCLADY @Clariana @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone To be fair, this is the propaganda framing employed by most activists pursuing progressive causes of any kind. It is they who are on the side of "love" while those who oppose them are "hateful". This is true of things like "gay rights", "anti-racism" activism, and even conventional feminism of years past. Media propaganda facilities the delegitimation of the opposition cause and the dehumanization of the individuals who oppose it as backwards bigots who are individually immoral. Ultimately, transgender activism is perfectly in line with the centuries-long Liberal Project, whose ultimate goal is totally amorphous us: a black hole which will drag all of Civilization into the depths of the hell on behalf of an ill-defined "moral arc of history."The question is always asked: "You want to be on the 'right' side of History, don't you?"
(DIR) Post #A7wjwAB6c83oZYoWga by wikifarms@kiwifarms.cc
2021-06-04T15:35:28.242187Z
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@Mote @Gnomeshatecheese @BCLADY @Clariana @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone >words, spergery"I am 18 and this is deep", yes?
(DIR) Post #A7wyDymF8kGnmeZfNY by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T18:15:33.491092Z
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@BCLADY @MaidenMotherCrone @Jennifer_Lee WE DO HAVE A SEX NEUTRAL PRONOUN!IT, IT, IT, IT, IT, IT...OK?
(DIR) Post #A7wybdp8hBFhkSDC40 by Hollahollara@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T18:19:49.599331Z
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@Clariana @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone (As an aside, it kills me when a child says her pronoun is “it.” I heard this yesterday from an 11 yr old relative.Its parents need their asses beat.)
(DIR) Post #A7wymH7hR6fIWqxozA by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T18:20:21.763129Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @BCLADY @Clariana @MaidenMotherCrone The one characteristic they all share is dishonesty. It's the reason they are desperate to silence dissent. The trans narrative doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
(DIR) Post #A7x3gEHXaQuFkZVHAO by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T18:54:08.975406Z
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@Clariana @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee Are you saying we should call women with DSD "it"?Jesus.
(DIR) Post #A7x3gEoVbrHHOovbYO by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T19:16:41.178038Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee Lovely to be misinterpreted! Carry on putting words into my mouth!What I said *REPEAT* is that English already has a gender neutral third person singular pronoun, and that pronoun is IT.You might no like it, but there IT is!
(DIR) Post #A7xASvgu5yFy0QyKQa by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T18:17:10.112273Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @Clariana @BCLADY @Gnomeshatecheese I would be fine with calling an intersex woman "she", but not when they are promoting the trans agenda of sex being naturally a spectrum. This particular case is a bait-and-switch, and the end result is going to be the erasure of our rights.
(DIR) Post #A7xASw7UV7WXKtPYrw by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T19:08:05.158274Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @BCLADY @Clariana @Gnomeshatecheese I get what you're saying, but I think it's possible not to throw women with DSD under the bus like this (no matter what their opinions) just because TW selfishly use them as a bait-and-switch. Sex is not a spectrum. We know this. We can confidently say that the existence of intersex people does not mean that anyone can change sex. Intersex people are always the sex they were born as, which in her case is technically male. But she was also born female-typical in every other way, just like you and me, which makes her an exception (an exception NOT shared by TW) and gives her reason to call herself a woman. We can acknowledge this and still fight for women's sex based rights.
(DIR) Post #A7xASwVF4oWSWYWWtE by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T20:32:42.899897Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @Jennifer_Lee @BCLADY @Gnomeshatecheese Allow me to clarify.I was only, ONLY, talking about pronouns, NOT about women with DSD. My comments were restricted to GRAMMAR and did not address the issue of women (note what I just said there?) with DSD. You are the one talking about women with DSD, not I. I was not advocating that we should call them IT, just pointing out that the English language DOES HAVE a gender neutral third person singular pronoun and that pronoun is IT.Hopefully this is now clear, so stop roping me in to convos I wasn't having and making comments about things I did not say.
(DIR) Post #A7xBFv1TMuF47gx8d6 by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T20:35:43.625131Z
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@Clariana @BCLADY @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee Okay. (The comment you're replying to wasn't in response to you. I know Spinster can mess up the order of threads sometimes, but this was in response to Jennifer Lee, not you.)
(DIR) Post #A7xBFvTpfSvXXeDmpk by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T20:41:34.399435Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @BCLADY @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee Cool.
(DIR) Post #A7xEQn19lsa4LMgEkq by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T20:36:50.415255Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@MaidenMotherCrone @Gnomeshatecheese @BCLADY But it depends on the person and their agenda, doesn't it. I will never cave to the demands of a TRA, and intersexed people who cosign trans ideology in order to expand their own visibility are every bit as toxic as TRAs. That was the whole point of my original post- we usually think of intersexed people as reasonable and not wanting to be caught up in the trans agenda, but this INDIVIDUAL intersexed person is enthusiastically joining the mob of bullies by promoting bad science, and that is not ok. It worries me that this could become a trend. The emotional manipulation, the teary breakdown toward the end of his speech, the maudlin plea to join his cause, all reeked of the typical "poor widdle me" twanz attempt to appear vulnerable, so we'll look away from the faulty logic.
(DIR) Post #A7xEUfcLE8veYBvK2C by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T12:14:11.126848Z
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@firebird2110 @Jennifer_Lee Oh, I agree. She's pushing this idea that biological sex is like a tick-box exercise (if you tick enough boxes like "secondary sex characteristics" or "hormonal makeup", you can literally become the other sex), which is totally wrong. Totally wrong. I think the issue there is that we leave no room for intersex women to be both male (which they are) and women (which they are). In order to be a woman, you have to be female in some way. That's everyone's line, radfems and TRAs actually. Radfems say women are always female, andf TRAs say I'm a woman therefore I'm also female. But intersex women show that both of these arguments are too simplistic. That doesn't mean that male people with no DSD whatsoever are female.
(DIR) Post #A7xEUgBn6LHkK8VdI0 by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T20:27:33.462268Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@MaidenMotherCrone @firebird2110 "But intersex women show that both of these arguments are too simplistic." No, they don't. Human sex IS simple. Human sex is naturally binary. Intersexed people are a rare anomaly. It's a birth defect. It sucks to have a birth defect but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to pretend it's something else.
(DIR) Post #A7xIOZCMZzhKin7Lmq by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T20:56:29.992536Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Clariana In practice “it” wouldn’t really work, as there’s clearly a very strong taboo in English against using it when referring to people (and also a taboo against using it about animals, though possibly less strong one). It’s very difficult to fight against a preconception like that, so I don’t see “it” as a realistic choice. However, English has been looking for a (human) third person singular epicene pronoun for a long time, and come up with nothing to show for it, so I don’t see this state of affairs changing any time soon. (There’s if I remember correctly, a reasonably interesting article on this, sadly behind paywall https://www.jstor.org/stable/455007?seq=1 Dennis E. Baron, 1981, The Epicene Pronoun: the word that failed )@BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone
(DIR) Post #A7xIOZiGfNDcJk2pW4 by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T22:01:33.734806Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone And nevertheless, there it is.As a translator I tend to use "they, them, their" a lot for singular neutral, apparently it is now standard usage in Australia. I also use "it" for companies and official bodies etc.
(DIR) Post #A7xKr4edQ7JAIU3w2K by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:03:41.643878Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone "male women" WHAT?There is no such entity as a "male woman"!Male = man. Female = woman.See gametes and physical body development that supports the supply of those gametes. A human's physical development may very rarely express anomalies but that does not mean that is a different definition of sex. Sex relates exclusively to the process of sexual reproduction of a species that relies on sexual reproduction for its perpetuation. [See also all mammals, other animals and some plants.]Male physical development, in some plants, animals and all mammals, is geared to supply the small mobile gamete.Female physical development, in some plants, animals and all mammals, is geared to supply the large, immobile gamete.JFC! Who on earth is so insane enough to use a term such as "male woman"!?@Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xKr56djzi3hLAIgi by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:04:08.612156Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee In the case of intersex women. Or are they men?
(DIR) Post #A7xKr5WsASh30hRFZo by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:12:22.937749Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone I think you need to provide a very specific definition of an "intersex woman" before any further discussion can advance.@Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xKr610MQnQW9XJXk by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:12:53.142883Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee Someone who's assumed female at birth from their outward appearance.
(DIR) Post #A7xKr6V8YOto1bdNVg by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:14:15.880079Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone What does that mean exactly?@Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xKr70KgPqvaMEI8O by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:17:58.624751Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee Someone who is outwardly female-typical in every way from birth⭐ except they have a male reproductive system which technically makes them male.⭐ Can also add "who remains as such" because I think there are intersex people who develop a penis somehow?Your reproductive system determines whether you're male or female, but a person who appears female-typical from birth and has no male characteristics outwardly whatsoever can reasonably call themselves a girl/woman. They experience sex-based oppression just like the rest of us.Hence, male woman.
(DIR) Post #A7xKr7SgyyXP0JUwL2 by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:26:10.756051Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone "they have a male reproductive system which technically makes them male.""technically"?There is no technology involved. If a a plant, animal or human has a male reproductive system it is a male. That is natural development for the purpose of sexual reproduction of species that rely on sexual reproduction for species perpetuation.@Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xKr7uLKAeiO4R1RA by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:29:28.221248Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee It means "according to the facts of something". According to the facts like the ones you've mentioned (which we're all familiar with by the way), she is male. I'm saying it's possible for a male person to consider themselves a woman if their outward appearance has been female-typical since birth.
(DIR) Post #A7xKr8LdggURkjCoz2 by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:35:01.227988Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone "to consider themselves" - this is crucial. A human's feelings do not ever obliterate material reality. People feel whatever they feel. Such feelings a person may have about themselves do not equate with material truth. [Material here describes the reality of their physical matter, their bodies. After all, humans, other mammals, other animals and some plants can only exist in our physical world as their bodies.] @Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xKr8mw3CKB7NycWu by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:35:55.264571Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee Okay then, I think it's reasonable to say that such a person IS a woman. It's just that the definition of woman isn't "adult human female" in EVERY case, although that's largely right.
(DIR) Post #A7xKr9HQDqi8dwEy36 by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:41:10.413991Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone Adult human female is 100% correct 100% of the time.If the reproductive system is geared to supply the large gamete that human is a female. That reproductive system may not function to its full capacity for any number of reasons but that human with that system is female.The converse is true of the male.@Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xKr9jmWPOc3tVcFk by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:43:05.792143Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee No, it's not. I'm not going to tell intersex women and girls that they're men and boys. That's ridiculous. We can handle the complexity.
(DIR) Post #A7xKrAC8oy55TqmGSO by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:48:05.585866Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone Yet that is something you seem to be incapable of doing.@Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xKrAc1GkmUm6svnE by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:48:40.707738Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee Oh please Jacky.
(DIR) Post #A7xKrB2xeaKe7fURmq by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:55:59.953718Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone Eh? If you are someone with a VSD it is for you to accommodate that complexity and come to terms with it. It is not for me to do so. It is not for you to demand that I and the rest of humanity ignore material reality because you fail to accommodate the complexity of your own situation, if you are indeed subjected to it.I do not expect my personal circumstance to determine the direction of the rest of humanity so why should you?@Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xKrBWNtBrravFweG by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:56:19.609515Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee Dude, what the fuck.
(DIR) Post #A7xKrBxKH1Q0wTrSds by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:58:56.113633Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone Explain? You really do need to be much more specific with your demands of the rest of humanity.Are you saying that our entire humanity should bend to accommodate your desire?@Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xKrCLQpOhW9F8iDQ by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:59:23.858616Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee JACKY I'M NOT INTERSEX omg
(DIR) Post #A7xKrCjtMSGbN6aFLE by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T22:00:15.457024Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee I can see how some in this community would TREAT intersex women, though, and BOY. Wooooohh.
(DIR) Post #A7xKrD9loEy0fMgug4 by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T22:01:40.268749Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@MaidenMotherCrone @DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee you have to stop using "intersex" as a descriptor. People with DSDs have been arguing against this for years. It's really unhelpful.
(DIR) Post #A7xKrDaMDOEZzp897Q by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T22:03:03.639214Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@MaidenMotherCrone @DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee "intersex" does not, actually, exist. please stop using it when the people it relates to have been advocating consistently for more accurate, relevant and appropriate language.
(DIR) Post #A7xLApmSQkRHxU8yno by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:20:31.408610Z
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@DejaVu @MaidenMotherCrone That's one of the biggest problems I have with this person. He insists that people with mixed chromosomes and NO OTHER ANOMALIES are intersexed, and that he knows people who "found out" they were intersexed in their 40's and 50's. That's ridiculous. If you don't know you are intersexed, you have lived a normal life up to that point, so it hasn't had an impact on your life. This is so typical of trans, to attempt to widen their base with false stats. If 90% of what someone is claiming is a lie, I tend to think the other 10% of what they are saying is probably bullshit, too. I'm weird like that.
(DIR) Post #A7xLAqFsfLyVQjuTfE by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:30:44.181058Z
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@Jennifer_Lee Most variations of sexual development [VSD] only become apparent at puberty, when natural physical development is not expressed as consistent with the overwhelming majority of animals and mammals including humans. Some VSD only become apparent even later, when animals and mammals aim to become parents.@MaidenMotherCrone
(DIR) Post #A7xLAqdzDjG0dVBjEm by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:32:25.030263Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee Ah, I was wondering about this. So any one of us could have grown up understanding ourselves to be girls as any other girl would, hit puberty and find out we were intersex. Does that make us not girls?
(DIR) Post #A7xLAr4vbYo9z3nFEO by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:38:22.920953Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone Not if it is apparent that a male reproductive system exists. For example, see https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/924291-overview@Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xLArSKCZWV9cjvhQ by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:42:12.154219Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee Can't agree with that. I understand that it's a difficult circle to square, but telling a girl like that (who finds out in puberty that they have undescended testes rather than a uterus) that she is a BOY is so ridiculous to me. You can tell her she's MALE, yeah, but to say she's not a girl? Really?
(DIR) Post #A7xLArsCeMDuRsqb2G by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:47:12.748481Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone You may find it ridiculous - that is a matter of your feelings. But the natural fact is that such a person is male.A female is not a male with undescended testes. Such a person with undescended testes is a male and, given pubertal development is becoming an adult human male.Whether such a male chooses to conform to the social imposition of masculine behaviours thereafter is a matter for him. To reject the imposition of such masculine behaviours does not make such a man a woman.Women are not men who reject proscribed masculine behaviours. @Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xLAsHN8mM9hwchGa by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:54:14.624551Z
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@DejaVu @Jennifer_Lee I see your argument. But these individuals will experience sex-based oppression from birth, just like the rest of us, in a way that other "men" won't. Surely that means something.
(DIR) Post #A7xLAsiJWbuJ3VEDGC by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:56:50.456778Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone Define the detail of such "sex-based oppression" please. @Jennifer_Lee
(DIR) Post #A7xLAtGLU584l39OIy by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:57:53.534263Z
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@DejaVu The same as any other girl/woman would experience except the fact she can't have biological children.
(DIR) Post #A7xLAthzpHFO8o5TP6 by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T22:03:55.586287Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone No man [human male] can gestate humans. That is something that is unique to females. A human female who has the potential to gestate humans but whose reproductive system fails to function is not a human male.
(DIR) Post #A7xQ1mgb49bPWduGga by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T20:46:46.185997Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @firebird2110 Well, fair enough, if you want to count intersex women as men, but I don't see the point in that.
(DIR) Post #A7xQ1n9fK4r2ynVTzk by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:19:04.979838Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@MaidenMotherCrone @Jennifer_Lee @firebird2110 DSDs are *within* male and female. no-one is 'intersex' and that's the point. DSDs are variations within male and female. No-one is outside or in-between those.
(DIR) Post #A7xRsa9OVGQzwv7G9w by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T23:47:50.593460Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Clariana @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone "IT" MAYBE TECHNIACALLY CORRECT BUT IT IMPLIES DEHUMANISATION/OBJECTIFICATION BECAUSE IT'S HOW WE DESCRIBE OBJECTS. SO ENGLISH NEEDS A SEX NUTRAL PRONOUN THAT IMPLIES HUMANITY/LIVING CRAETURE/SENTIENCE.BEING ABLE TO CLEARLY POINT TO SOMEONE'S HUMANITY WHILE DEPRIORITISING SEX IS IMPORTANT IN SOME CASES, LIKE WRITTING POLICIES THAT APPLY TO WITHER SEX, OR IDENTIFYING THAT AN ANIMAL CAN FEEL PAIN EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW IT'S SEX, UNLIKE SAY A LAMP. PLUS WHEN I THINK OF "IT" IT MAKES ME THINK OF THIS:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgPtJ0pTutc&ab_channel=suhoruchsuhoruch
(DIR) Post #A7xSCVK4A9molebikq by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T23:51:26.609296Z
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@wikifarms @Mote @Clariana @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone MITCH EVERYONE IN CANADA SHOULD BE SPERGING. A MAN WAS PUT IN PRISON FOR TRYING TO GET HIS DAUGHTER TO NOT BE MEDICALLY EXPERIMENTED ON FOR GENDER REASONS AND THEY'RE STICKING RAPISTS IN WOMEN'S PRISONS BECAUSE OF GENDER FEELS.I LIVE IN A FUCKING PROVINCE THAT RECENTLY DECIDED IT WAS NO BIGGIE TO MAKE LAWYERS ACCOUNCE THEIR FUCKING PRONOUNS IN COURT. SO IT'S MORE LIKE I'M AN ADULT AND CANADA IS IN DEEP SHIT.
(DIR) Post #A7xTdmWsOfpjuEAbfk by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T13:36:23.997882Z
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@BCLADY @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee We need to be clear that we're talking about two completely different things here.I know that allegories are open to various interpretations and probably aren't helpful overall (and I don't want to inadvertently offend any women with DSD), but I want to try to illustrate the difference here.A woman with DSD is like an apple that's somehow grown from an orange tree. She looks like an apple, tastes like an apple, and if you put her next to any other apple, you wouldn't know the diffference, except she doesn't have any apple seeds inside her, because the tree she came from didn't give her the genetic information for that. She may have orange seeds instead, but maybe she couldn't carry fertile orange seeds because she's basically an apple.A TW is an orange that grew from an orange tree that thinks of themselves as more appley than orangey for whatever reason.Do you sort of see what I'm getting at?
(DIR) Post #A7xTdn6gFYTPhGvCTo by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T00:07:34.573917Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee OK BUT OTHER'S WOULD ARGUE THAT SINCE A FRUIT CAME FROM AN ORANGE TREE IT'S OBVIOUSLY AN ORANGE BECAUSE OF GENETICS, REGARDLESS OF HOW IT LOOKS OR TASTES. SOME MIGHT ARGUE IT'S A WHOLE NEW FRUIT SO THAT FRUIT ARE A SPECTRUM AND THAT YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT FRUIT IS WHAT, SO YOU MUST JUST TAKE FRUIT AT FACE VALUE. WHEN PEOPLE SPEND THE ENTIRE TIME TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU THAT APPLES ARE ORANGES BECAUSE WORD DEFINITIONS CAN BE PICKED APART AND COURT SYSTEMS USED TO ABUSE PEOPLE GETTING METAPHORICAL ISN'T HELPFUL.YOU ALSO IMPLY THAT USING ONE'S SENSES TO DISTINGUISH GENDER IS GOING TO MAKE IT EASY AS IF PEOPLE AREN'T PUTTING PRONOUNS BEHIND THEIR NAME IN EMAILS/ACCOUNCEMENTS.FRUIT DON'T COMMUNICATE ELECTRONICALLY, VIA THE MEDIA OR TRY TO TAKE OVER ORGANIZATIONS. I HONESTLY THINK MOST PEOPLE WITH DSD UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE A DISORDER AND PROBABLY ARE MORE FRUSTRATED BY THINGS LIKE PROBLEMS CONCIEVING OR WHATEVER PHYSICAL ISSUES ARE CAUSED BY SUCH A DISORDER. OR MAYBE THEY'RE FRUSTRATED AT BEING USED AS PAWNS BY THE MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX TO JUSTIFY FETISHES AND CHILD CASTRATION. IN CASUAL CONVERSATION, I DON'T REALLY CARE HOW SOMEONE PERCIEVES ANOTHER'S SEX BUT IT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT IN "EDUCATIONAL" AKA INDOCTRINATION VIDEOS.I WANT TO FIGHT FOR MY OWN PERCEPTIONS AND TO USE ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE OF A PERSON INSTEAD OF FOLLOWING WHAT MAKES OTHER'S EMOTIONALLY COMFORTABLE. IF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT OFFENDING SOMEONE, YOU'RE BEST OFF TRYING TO ASK THEM WHAT THEIR PRIORITIES ARE AND NOT DOING SO ONLINE. BECAUSE ACTIVISTS HAVE ABUSED THE SHIT OUT OF HARNESSING PEOPLES NEGATIVE FEELINGS TO GET INSANE SHIT TO HAPPEN. DEFINITIONS THAT ARE LOGICAL ARE GOOD, BUT SIMPLY TRYING TO AVOID POSSIBLE OFFENCE HAS BEEN TURNED INTO A PISSING CONTEST FOR CONTROL AND I'M TIRED OF IT.
(DIR) Post #A7xXC82nDBUULDAUXg by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T00:47:23.969456Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone GRANDMA WAS A BAD MAMOJAMBA.
(DIR) Post #A7xbAehhDDh8s3qyFU by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T01:31:57.088656Z
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@BCLADY @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone Except for the 'hoofing in the front butt' thing..... :blobpeek:
(DIR) Post #A7xdmmKBWhbvQ2A8Aa by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T02:01:15.208220Z
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@Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone SADLY SHE TOUGHT HOOFING WAS A TYPE OF DANCE AND PROCCEEDED TO TRY A DANCE OFF WHEN THERE WERE FRONT BUTTS AROUND.
(DIR) Post #A7xeAsklHCZuJ65S0u by Hollahollara@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T02:05:36.405047Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADY @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone OVARY DANCE!
(DIR) Post #A7xgLvwzveSLJjCx3A by Tiggy@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T02:18:32.910364Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Hollahollara @BCLADY @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone I don't know the ovary dance will you teach me?
(DIR) Post #A7xgQh5ibRiQgCYa6C by Hollahollara@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T02:30:52.304988Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Tiggy @BCLADY @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone Let’s crowdsource this ovary dance!
(DIR) Post #A7xghPyTUp5YW28wHQ by AnungIkwe@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T02:32:46.649707Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Hollahollara @BCLADY @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone Doin my freaky little possessive dance tonight. It's just a step to the Left...
(DIR) Post #A7xjhNzBBoZoD79J8y by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T03:05:30.936223Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Hollahollara @BCLADY @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @Maiden Mother tone both those y chromosomed goblins have blocked me for past interactions. For disingenuous social rejects they sure are sensitive, I said to them was I was thought not to “dunk” on those who are special with a capital R and bam blocked
(DIR) Post #A7xjm7Qy9jtwK9P8dc by Hollahollara@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T03:08:21.795102Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ImpoliteFemale @BCLADY @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @maiden We are proud of you! 🤝🏆😝
(DIR) Post #A7xl30pY3qi0ijWKUS by ImpoliteFemale@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T03:14:52.314524Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Hollahollara @BCLADY @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @maiden finally, someones proud of me. but GOOD! y’all should be proud, I’m doing the best I can to reinforce the boundaries of Womens rights and that’s the best I can do
(DIR) Post #A7xp4tpDTf73ODWKRM by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T04:07:46.743462Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hollahollara @Tiggy @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone I HAVE FOUND A PICTURE:
(DIR) Post #A7xpEOuZGiMoPNYQ3U by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T20:39:27.464048Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @BCLADY @Clariana @Gnomeshatecheese Nowhere did I throw all intersexed people under the bus. I have a beef with this ONE INDIVIDUAL and the way they are glomming onto trans ideology. I have defended intersexed people against trans who try to use them as examples. I maintain that this Emily person is highly suspect on several levels, as I have described at length.
(DIR) Post #A7xpEPNzVJu1sdJuuu by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T20:42:43.062700Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jennifer_Lee @BCLADY @Clariana @Gnomeshatecheese Okay, it just seems really unfounded when she's said like she has a vagina and her testes don't respond to testosterone.
(DIR) Post #A7xpEPr3lF9fKmv8E4 by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T20:46:39.648837Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@MaidenMotherCrone @BCLADY @Clariana @Gnomeshatecheese So he says. Everything else is a lie, so I don't believe him with regard to his personal health history. We may have to agree to disagree. Please understand that IN GENERAL, I do support intersexed people, and someone raised as a girl is certainly entitled to be referred to in feminine pronouns. This PARTICULAR intersexed person is batting for the trans team. If he were indeed a woman, he would feel the misogyny of that movement. For some mysterious reason, he's going along with it, and that gets a "he" from me. Cheers. :purple_sparkling_heart:
(DIR) Post #A7xtfbdsRYYHWlyWTg by Gelatinousrube@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T04:58:15.521496Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Hollahollara @BCLADY @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone This makes me long for the old days when men said stupid things like "that's women's business" and changed the subject to sportball.
(DIR) Post #A7xtfcAUUIdj9vEZJQ by BCLADY@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T04:59:13.981673Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gelatinousrube @Hollahollara @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone YES BUT NOW WE HAVE AN OVARY DANCE.SO A WIN????????
(DIR) Post #A7y0Wz5ObrwJJIgOMS by Raunchel@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T05:56:27.446003Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADY @Gelatinousrube @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Hollahollara @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone absolute and definite win. We get a dance, they get more rage
(DIR) Post #A7y5PE27eUht7eGsNs by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T20:51:59.138253Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @firebird2110 THAT ISN'T WHAT I SAID!!!!! You have steadfastly misrepresented my comments through this whole fucking argument! My original post STARTS WITH A DISCLAIMER!!!!!! I have a problem with THIS PERSON, who is promoting the trans agenda in its entirety, hiding behind a questionable intersexed identity. They believe that people who have no secondary characteristics WHATSOEVER, are still intersexed if their chromosomes aren't strictly XX or XY. That simply isn't true. 99% of what they are saying is untrue, and for that reason, I am questioning whether this INDIVIDUAL is female. Yes, they ARE INTERSEXED. But they have XY chromosomes and testes, and POSSIBLY A PENIS. He won't say whether or not there is a penis present. I find that odd. I guess you don't. That's fine. But stop putting words in my mouth. I have been careful to NOT apply my opinion of this ONE FUCKING PERSON to all intersexed people. Jesus fucking christ.
(DIR) Post #A7y5PETQ10XcUJ2fvk by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:03:17.790361Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @firebird2110 Okay, but it is what you said.'"But intersex women show that both of these arguments are too simplistic." No, they don't. Human sex IS simple. Human sex is naturally binary. Intersexed people are a rare anomaly. It's a birth defect. It sucks to have a birth defect but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to pretend it's something else.'I said that the argument "women = adult human female" was too simplistic. That's what I was referring to here. You came back and said it's not simplistic. So it was perfectly reasonable for me to assume that you meant that women = adult human female in every case, which would make intersex women men.No need for the fucking atittude.And please, watch the video again: she says quite clearly that she has a vagina.
(DIR) Post #A7y5PEteRTWbnfJcoq by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:09:25.411869Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @firebird2110 That is NOT what you said. Scroll up. And I watched the video several times. If you put words in my mouth, which you did over and over and over again, expect an attitude from me. I'm not the asshole here, you very clearly are, and you can go fuck yourself.
(DIR) Post #A7y5PFMMiiUfEikYZk by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:10:24.532200Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @firebird2110 " That's everyone's line, radfems and TRAs actually. Radfems say women are always female, andf TRAs say I'm a woman therefore I'm also female. But intersex women show that both of these arguments are too simplistic. "Yeah, okay.
(DIR) Post #A7y5PFhzQJn6JmrpHU by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:16:37.467742Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@MaidenMotherCrone @firebird2110 You can't even quote YOURSELF accurately. And for the record, "Emily" stated she did NOT have a normal vagina, and was told by a doctor that he would probably need surgery. Did you miss that part? Does a distorted vagina make a person female, if he has other parts that are male? He never said he did not have a penis. He never said she had a clitoris. HE loves to talk about HIS BALLS. You sound like the most desperate libfem in the way you are defending this freak.
(DIR) Post #A7y5PG7rs6UVc2yUcK by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:22:02.458297Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Jennifer_Lee @firebird2110 "You sound like the most desperate libfem in the way you are defending this freak."Awful. Go fuck yourself.
(DIR) Post #A7y5QDODWxcrPq4snA by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:19:42.697380Z
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@Jennifer_Lee @firebird2110 Well, it doesn't really matter because you said that the argument that "women are always female" wasn't too simplistic which still proves my point. Yeah for her INTERNAL testes. She doesn't have external testes. She has female genitalia.
(DIR) Post #A7y5QDuTb1Qj1tAe4e by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:32:32.641360Z
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@MaidenMotherCrone @firebird2110 My grievance with you is that you derailed the whole fucking thread over semantics. THE POINT, THE FUCKING POINT THAT IS RELEVANT HERE, IS THAT AN INTERSEXED PERSON IS DEFENDING TRANS IDEOLOGY. Radfems and other GC activists have long protected intersexed people from the trans vs feminism flamewars because THE INTERSEXED PEOPLE TOLD US they do not support trans ideology. And yet, HERE is an intersexed person doing exactly that, and I am concerned this may represent a sea change in the participation of intersexed people in this narrative. DO YOU GET IT?
(DIR) Post #A7y5QELlxXGSOXwRcW by MaidenMotherCrone@spinster.xyz
2021-06-04T21:34:16.324783Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Jennifer_Lee @firebird2110 "THE POINT, THE FUCKING POINT THAT IS RELEVANT HERE, IS THAT AN INTERSEXED PERSON IS DEFENDING TRANS IDEOLOGY."You're making that point; I'm not arguing that point with you. The "semantics" of calling an intersex woman "he" or saying that "woman = adult human female" in every case is pretty fucking relevant to the thread.Aren't we supposed to challenge each other here? People aren't going to agree to and clap at everything you say.
(DIR) Post #A7y5hdSTrQklBoNXNY by Piss_Ant@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T07:14:03.876426Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jennifer_Lee This is so hard to watch. Cringey arguments and cringey jokes 😣
(DIR) Post #A7y6kkToJNX1mz36Qa by localhoney@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T06:39:29.582137Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hollahollara @BCLADY @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone tfw ur female
(DIR) Post #A7y7QkqXL4xh5Xi1NQ by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T07:33:25.117892Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADY @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone That is current usage. Usage can change.Look at words like "gay" or "queer".
(DIR) Post #A7z8Act9S7Eet1lVWC by firebird2110@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T10:04:05.685563Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone I don't think it's a sea change, I think it's one person who happens to have a DSD and is onboard with the trans cult and is just as willing as the other TRAs to lie, distort and gaslight. As they are a TRA I don't feel very inclined to take their word on anything.
(DIR) Post #A7zB0SafBaDxuixgHI by Jennifer_Lee@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T19:46:56.770983Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@BCLADY @Gelatinousrube @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Hollahollara @MaidenMotherCrone Yes! Now we dance! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmeoLzVGkYU
(DIR) Post #A7zI7bEi8d9MR22qpc by yishengqingwa666@spinster.xyz
2021-06-05T19:41:49.139627Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hollahollara @BCLADY @Fullycaffeinated @Gnomeshatecheese @Jennifer_Lee @MaidenMotherCrone THE WOMB ENVY IS REAL. MALES ARE INFERIOR AND THEY KNOW IT.