Post A7uAowzrL2Usx6SWK8 by cubicroot@mastodon.online
(DIR) More posts by cubicroot@mastodon.online
(DIR) Post #A7gYr1WIhgqMFMWDia by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-27T20:15:53.605533Z
26 likes, 24 repeats
WHY DO SO MANY COOL OPEN SOURCE WEB APPLICATIONS DEPEND ON DOCKER, HOLY SHIT LEARN HOW TO WRITE PROPER SETUP DOCUMENTATION :blobcattableflip: I refuse to run Docker containers inside of Linux Containers so my options are…- Install manually and make upgrading a pain in the ass- Don't use the appAs much as I would *love* to use it, the reliance on Docker for managing 100% of the stack is a *hard* no. Figuring out how the image has changed between releases would make manual maintenance absolute hell and I am unwilling to shoulder that burden.Not everyone is *able* to use Docker and not everyone is *willing* to use Docker. By not supporting any other deployment method, you are preventing some individuals from using what could be *the* application they've spent years looking for.Let the admin decide how to architect their own systems. They know their backend better than you do.(reposted because jake wanted to boost)
(DIR) Post #A7gZ8pHExem3ULxmW8 by rick@fedi.n0id.space
2021-05-27T20:19:07.431402Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith so true.. i hate it...
(DIR) Post #A7gZEDDZNSILBgoZAO by kayden@fedi.nullob.si
2021-05-27T20:20:00.031Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith@nixnet.social i hate it too, just let me run the damn app :takimeme2:
(DIR) Post #A7gZIDhbWBg1qem3Pc by yes@social.handholding.io
2021-05-27T20:20:49.393581Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith docker is stored in the god damned balls
(DIR) Post #A7gZOXpzZJJ22BiHuS by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-27T20:21:57.811594Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith You can always look at the Dockerfile you know to see how they install it. I personally really like Docker. I use to try to maintain a bunch of independent services via packages and what not and it gets insanely tedious at scale. Docker does lack meta-data to automatically check for images updates and for authors to link new releases; which is a big problem. But in general containers work really well, and prevent pollution of the underlying system.
(DIR) Post #A7gZSHa3xAPkly2qI4 by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-27T20:22:38.336508Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yes @amolith you're all about the balls today
(DIR) Post #A7gZV5uHoRylR4qRyC by yes@social.handholding.io
2021-05-27T20:23:08.980931Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog @amolith yes
(DIR) Post #A7gZfjv9tcpyQuKSxc by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-27T20:25:04.253408Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith I seriously wouldn't be able to sanely host all this stuff without Docker. But I also wrote this post on having a love/hate relationship with it: https://battlepenguin.com/tech/my-love-hate-relationship-with-docker-and-container-orchestration-systems/Also Kubernetes can go die in a fire.
(DIR) Post #A7gZiPWQCBgU2G23Rw by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-27T20:25:32.498850Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog > You can always look at the Dockerfile you know to see how they install it.That's the "manual installation" i'm talking about. Sure, I can take it apart to initially install the service but any further upgrades would also have to be done manually. I would have to figure out what changed in the stack between the old one and the new one and manually make those changes to my stack *inside my own container*.> containers work really well, and prevent pollution of the underlying systemYes, that's why I use them. I just don't use the container tool everyone else does so that make my setup not worth supporting. Running Docker inside LXD is just asinine.
(DIR) Post #A7gZpSudzHiYZvj4NM by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-27T20:26:48.732973Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith Are those different than LXC containers? Yea it is sad none of the other container concepts really took off.
(DIR) Post #A7gZwgH6hmHm32fowq by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-27T20:28:07.220782Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog I have a different LXD image for all of the applications I run and use it for orchestration and clustering across hosts. Putting containers inside of containers just because the dev won't support anything else is something I am unwilling to do.
(DIR) Post #A7gZxeMVIqFmP9eygq by duponin@udongein.xyz
2021-05-27T20:28:07.522659Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith I personally distribute my work in Docker container because it's better than nothing and it's personal project open-sourced and I'm fuckin' alone to work on itif one day an asshole insults me because of that they either have to write the documentation or I close the source>but duponin, it's GPLv3 :bunpeek: begone peasant :akko_gun:
(DIR) Post #A7ga2OlqhLDVUtmN0q by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-27T20:29:09.977607Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith ah neat
(DIR) Post #A7ga39INiiZXn7M06i by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-27T20:29:17.404046Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog LXD is a layer on top of LXC developed by Canonical that improves orchestration and networking capabilitieshttps://linuxcontainers.org/
(DIR) Post #A7gaAII0gAUviFaSX2 by nilsding@pounced-on.me
2021-05-27T20:29:29Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith it gets "better": I've seen a few projects recently requiring to be set up in a Kubernetes cluster for some reason -- even though the application works just fine without it....at least some guide you through how to set up a cluster on your local machine using minikube or something :v
(DIR) Post #A7gaBI5ktpXDOCKY2S by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-27T20:30:46.369436Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nilsding :notlikemiya:
(DIR) Post #A7gcck7B1E2s1nDGue by bionade24@mastodon.social
2021-05-27T20:41:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith Why should a person not be able to use docker? Rest points are valid, guess I'm feeling a bit guilty here. Though my single project depending on docker interacts with it heavily with the socket, so maybe doesn't fall into that group.
(DIR) Post #A7gcckXPRh1rL9UDnk by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-27T20:58:07.082935Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bionade24 first example I found, at the top in redhttps://wiki.freebsd.org/DockerI could also see it being an issue on particularly lightweight systems that don’t need a webserver or database installed alongside the application. Maybe those are run elsewhere. In my opinion, the developer can’t provide something that’s ideal across all systems unless they provide nothing more than the application itself and leave the rest of the architecture up to the admin.Relying entirely on abstractions is never a good idea unless you know how to deconstruct them.— Paraphrased from Introduction to Computing Systems, one of my uni textbooksIf you can deconstruct those abstractions and install the software through regular methods, I really don’t think there’s any reason not to take 10 minutes to write the process down then make sure that process isn’t broken for future releases.
(DIR) Post #A7gcmR7IVYFI0CtM2a by spla@mastodont.cat
2021-05-27T20:50:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith 100% agree. Docker must die.
(DIR) Post #A7gcmRb4iq45UYp8SG by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-27T20:59:52.075399Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@spla I really wouldn't say it needs to die. I just think a lot of people are relying on it way too much and even misusing it.
(DIR) Post #A7gdO1xIVOHmyD8mZs by spla@mastodont.cat
2021-05-27T21:06:29Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith right, too much projects relying on Docker is not a good thing, you learn nothing installing "black boxes" in your system.
(DIR) Post #A7gdnUZpEEiyyfIpiC by freakazoid@retro.social
2021-05-27T21:10:41Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @vertigo I think this is part of the larger, even more concerning trend of non-repeatability in open source software. It's hard to make something build for everyone, so just make it build once in a Docker container. Never mind that that completely destroys any notion of portability. And at some point with a build process and/or runtime environment whose specification is a complete system image, what is even the point of being open source?
(DIR) Post #A7gdxf455bGGOwItKy by bionade24@mastodon.social
2021-05-27T21:04:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith Ah ok you mean those docker-compose thingys which ship everything from db over services to webserver. Even on my docker-dependent CI I have a manual with example how to configure an existing webserver to serve it. Even though I'm a heavy docker user, I totally understand and agree to your points now. Wasn't clear to me before. You don't like the docker == AppImages for containers philosophy.
(DIR) Post #A7gdxfW5PTf9nnPFzM by bionade24@mastodon.social
2021-05-27T21:12:48Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith Btw I don't provide prebuilt images, too.
(DIR) Post #A7gl4fPkt4jjBwjH8q by duponin@udongein.xyz
2021-05-27T22:32:48.439072Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @bionade24 >to take 10 minutes to write the process downif you take only 10 minutes the process will be only for people with enough knowledgea real (and good) documentation is much harder and longer to write down
(DIR) Post #A7gmHxxrKVf0RUaQNc by breizh@pleroma.breizh.pm
2021-05-27T22:35:51.357845Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @djsumdog I've seen a lot of misconfigured containers being the only one official setup, without any explanation for manual install that can be used to create and maintain a package…Reading the Dockerfile isn't a solution, since it generally does a lot more than make, make install, [vim configfile, [service start]].And if the application is doing a mess on my system, there is two cases: 1/ I made a mistake while packaging it or installing it 2/ the application is a big pile of shit.So the pollution isn't a problem. Well, it's generally not my problem.
(DIR) Post #A7gmIUj7WKTk3KwcUK by breizh@pleroma.breizh.pm
2021-05-27T22:37:05.207867Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @djsumdog (of course you can propose a Docker image. But don’t forget to make a good manual installation documentation. The normal way is to write this doc and then follow it to create the Docker image.)
(DIR) Post #A7gmdW7dWlJEShR66S by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-27T22:50:19.376245Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@breizh @djsumdog I have zero problems with *recommending* that users install via docker as long as there are proper docs for everyone else to follow
(DIR) Post #A7h2jckbOVgC1Xb0DI by sneak@s.sneak.berlin
2021-05-28T01:50:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith you don't need to use docker to run a container bruh
(DIR) Post #A7h6N4UcU0NVDlcbw0 by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-28T02:31:27.141868Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sneak whothow did you get "i need docker to run containers" from "stop requiring people to use docker because they may have their own solution" and "I refuse to run Docker containers inside of Linux Containers" :thonk:
(DIR) Post #A7h6OMPlKu1l5rxrTE by fsan@tilde.zone
2021-05-28T01:03:48Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith The worst of it all is that they act as if Docker is the answer to build systems "lmao just install a 1gb runtime to compile and execute a program" is such a weird way to handle a project.Imagine I want a dedicated server running their soft... why would I want an isolation layer running?
(DIR) Post #A7hDiEGs1RD5JAE6QC by vertigo@hackers.town
2021-05-27T23:32:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freakazoid @amolith I don't think it destroys portability or openness. Vis-a-vis Java, which also attempts to rigidly define an environment in which code runs.But it is definitely unnecessarily complexity. Linux already provides the means to isolate processes, network, and other resources from each other.I know you consider Plan 9 unviable; but, I have to keep referring back to it because it is an existence proof and a model. (In fact, it's one of the prime inspirations behind Docker.) Given a system that is built for extreme levels of isolation, a container-like solution is both preferred and expected.But, Linux just isn't built for this. Docker is unidiomatic.
(DIR) Post #A7hDiEhSQaTedcfKrY by freakazoid@retro.social
2021-05-28T03:44:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vertigo @amolith I'm OK with thinking of Docker as an OCI runtime that happens to have its own legacy container format. That's not the issue; the issue is that it's ad hoc. There's no documented standard you could implement some other way. The equivalent isn't Java or even "Java SE 17". It's a particular Java tarball with a specific hash.The closest analogy I can think of to java is LSB, but that's dead AFAIK. And even that is far more constrained and non-portable than necessary.
(DIR) Post #A7hDiF8OoQ1nzBGqrA by freakazoid@retro.social
2021-05-28T03:53:20Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@vertigo @amolith Java is also at least equally garbage on all platforms, whereas the Docker experience is much worse on any platform other than Linux. Which is a slap in the face when it's not that hard to make stuff that can run on Linux run on other UNIX-like OSes.
(DIR) Post #A7hEb7VOsVpsFgCG1Y by freakazoid@retro.social
2021-05-28T04:03:21Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@vertigo @amolith There's also the fact that there's about a 90% chance that the reason a developer is distributing their project using Docker, or building anything with Docker that doesn't involve cross-compilation or something similarly difficult, is that they're not very good. Not because it's always a bad idea to use Docker, but because there are a lot more crappy developers out there than good ones and Docker lowers the bar a bit. Which in some ways is a good thing.
(DIR) Post #A7hEtYuli6HKTLr9km by freakazoid@retro.social
2021-05-28T04:06:35Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@vertigo @amolith What I'd prefer to see is stuff that lowers the bar but also pushes the people who use it toward good practices. Docker doesn't. PHP doesn't. I can't really think of anything that does off the top of my head, so maybe this is not a thing that exists. Erlang/OTP maybe? It's lowering a very high bar to a level that's still fairly high, though, which is writing distributed applications.
(DIR) Post #A7hQ1KwCeuEcw7RAOm by A7Cm4QGQPaGHTJhfai.Stefan@fedi.lightnovel-dungeon.de
2021-05-28T06:06:43.474535Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith Just thank you for saying that. :blobcatjustright: I am not really into docker myself, though I only really tried once while playing around with a discourse-forum. Why can't I just have a method where I don't need docker? I wanted to try out cactus comments (basically a programm that lets you add a comment section for e.g. a blog powered by matrix), sadly it is DOCKER ONLY! :blobcattableflip: But the app does not seem super complicated, mostly python stuff, so maybe I get to run without docker and can contribute that :blobcatthinkingglare:
(DIR) Post #A7hQaYalssmnQ6CtCy by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-28T06:17:59.349263Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Stefan I'm considering talking to the developers of some of what I want to run and offering to write that setup documentation myself, as long as they can commit to either leaving the stack as it is or producing good changelogs for releases that users can follow if they installed "manually". I would be *more* than happy to maintain installation guides like that as well as spend a little time supporting users who go through it. The dev just needs to keep those users in mind and change the architecture as little as possible.
(DIR) Post #A7hQhRjNnAOGASWIPg by diarra@framapiaf.org
2021-05-28T05:50:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith may you tell us whyyyy you don't like docker that much ? slow ? unsecure ?
(DIR) Post #A7hQhSDVz8UdfucMNc by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-28T06:19:13.251371Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@diarra my problem is not with docker at all; as a technology, it's perfectly fine. What I don't like is when that's the *only* deployment method
(DIR) Post #A7hQs0yxaF2YORqU88 by A7Cm4QGQPaGHTJhfai.Stefan@fedi.lightnovel-dungeon.de
2021-05-28T06:21:18.112728Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith Good Luck with that. Just out of interest. Which software are you on about? Just would like to know.
(DIR) Post #A7i4yL61i376gCimo4 by diarra@framapiaf.org
2021-05-28T06:45:40Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith okay, thx for the details !
(DIR) Post #A7iLXJrNtbmeFQZfVo by bionade24@mastodon.social
2021-05-28T13:32:27Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@duponin @amolith If you service is really simple, it doesn't. Yeah, of course I won't provide an example config for every webserve, people using esoteric stuff like traefik should be capable of doing it theirselves.
(DIR) Post #A7svLBES9cQ5wcfhLc by jeder@toot.site
2021-06-02T19:20:50Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith this is me last week, fuck this shit
(DIR) Post #A7svbIXSkwDLEsFUAq by eris@disqordia.space
2021-06-02T19:27:19.010523Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith As soon as I see "this is for Docker" I click out bc I'm happy with what I have
(DIR) Post #A7svvWiTkm8B0B2zRY by nyx@social.xenofem.me
2021-06-02T19:30:58.169995Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith on more than one occasion I've found software that doesn't even have documentation on how to install it in any other way besides with Docker, or otherwise installing from source is unreasonably difficult and heavily discouraged. Funkwhale is a notable example of thisDocker is just one of many technologies that enables people to write shittier software
(DIR) Post #A7sx7vl8ZQDm6GlkX2 by xj9@letsalllovela.in
2021-06-02T19:29:08.174685Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith yeah maybe don't use the app. the developers have no obligation to support arbitrary deployment methods. if you want something custom, i expect you're on your own.
(DIR) Post #A7sx7wB11CvBOWsPrs by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-06-02T19:44:24.710165Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@xj9 Yes, that’s my whole point. I believe that the one deployment method which should be universally supported is documentation saying “this is how you install dependencies and this is how you run the app”. If the dev wants to support Docker or Kubernetes or Ansible or Chef or Puppet or LXC or any of the other billions of container/orchestration systems, cool. Users just shouldn’t be forced into them if they prefer something else.
(DIR) Post #A7sxa0Cbe24TzL0Fv6 by fribbledom@mastodon.social
2021-06-02T19:44:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith I hear that a lot, and I guess I would agree *if* Docker is the only installation option a project offers.However I wonder what these elusive projects are? I really run a ton of self-hosted stuff, but so far all the projects I've seen offer alternative ways of installing them.Mind sharing a few of the projects you encountered this problem with?
(DIR) Post #A7sxa0h5ogSRVtGbRI by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-06-02T19:49:29.113423Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fribbledom I'd rather not share publicly because I don't want anyone to harass the devs about it; I plan to contact them and offer to write and maintain the documentation myself as long as they commit to writing good changelogs and not introducing too many massive, breaking changes to the app's architecture.I'll send links in PM instead :akko_fingerguns:
(DIR) Post #A7syew0MmI8cN9C50S by xj9@letsalllovela.in
2021-06-02T19:45:31.941526Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith you aren't being forced though. the developer made some choices and its their prerogative to do so. if you want the alternative documentation, then write it yourself and get it into upstream. the developers don't owe you shit.
(DIR) Post #A7syewRf8nyLjnxsYK by xj9@letsalllovela.in
2021-06-02T19:48:36.754125Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith basically every open source license has something to the effect of: THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OFMERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OROTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE,ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OROTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.which says very directly that they don’t owe you anything, not even functional software.
(DIR) Post #A7syeww9JSMJGMEE4W by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-06-02T20:01:34.002234Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@xj9 hm the post this is replying to hasn't federated over yet :blobfoxthink: > if you want the alternative documentation, then write it yourself and get it into upstreamI already said this somewhere else in the thread but that's exactly what I'm going to do. I am more than happy to write, maintain, *and support* alternative guides myself as long as the developer is willing to write release notes that contain architectural changes and they don't break the stack too much.
(DIR) Post #A7t1kEQg0IBipCiYb2 by calcifer@hackers.town
2021-06-02T20:35:24Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bionade24 @amolith I can tell you mine: desktop environments inside VMs that don't pass through the necessary virtualization featuresThough other reasons are resource constraints, conflicts with other containers, org policy…
(DIR) Post #A7t2MKRO6MDSTPDTdI by NickolasGir@paypig.org
2021-06-02T20:43:01Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith Fun how dumb people have abandoned the Unix philosophy for containers all the way down.
(DIR) Post #A7tDRJinIn9fBbwIee by bionade24@mastodon.social
2021-06-02T21:07:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@calcifer @amolith docker is just normal linux containers, so a kernel feature and has nothing to do with virtualization. Unless you're already sharing the kernel with the host there should be no limitation, or am I unaware of something?
(DIR) Post #A7tDRK91jG8eUyDFXk by calcifer@hackers.town
2021-06-02T22:43:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bionade24 @amolith docker is normal Linux containers when you’re running it on Linux. It might surprise you to learn that there are many Windows guests in the world.
(DIR) Post #A7tDTGhZV54aOrIX32 by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-06-02T22:47:33.228007Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@calcifer @bionade24 as well as many BSD systems
(DIR) Post #A7tIedKSDGfRX6iunY by kylaver@cybre.space
2021-06-02T23:20:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith isn’t docker just a frontend cli for a containerd interface? Sorry but I’m on a defending side on this one and I think that docker fixed a lot of a UX problems that made containers popular just because of it. I know there are an exceptions but in my experience LXC is treated more like an a VM than a container
(DIR) Post #A7tIedtu5T1XJ3JE3M by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-06-02T23:45:36.428572Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kylaver Sort of but I'm not saying that Docker is bad at all. It has its place in an architecture stack just like everything else. My point it doesn't fit in everyone's stack.A better default is simply describing what the application expects and allowing the admin to work within those constraints and craft a cohesive system rather than simply shoving a container in another container, proxying the already-proxied application, and calling it a day.> in my experience LXC is treated more like a VM than a containerThat's exactly the point. LXC is for system containers while Docker is for application containers. Docker was designed with an extreme focus on the microservices architecture that Google has adopted while LXC is specifically designed to provide VMs with less overhead.From linuxcontainers.org …> "Our main focus is system containers. That is, containers which offer an environment as close as possible as the one you'd get from a VM but without the overhead that comes with running a separate kernel and simulating all the hardware."The goal with my setup was putting each application along with its dependencies in one container so it can be picked up, dropped on any host, and continue running as if nothing happened. It doesn't rely on the presence of a relational database container and a webserver container and a caching database container and a ____ container because everything it needs is already there.However, not everyone wants a setup like mine nor are they likely to need one. That's why I prefer deployment methods that are not reliant on architecture tools; different people have different architectural needs and what works for one admin won't necessarily work for another :P
(DIR) Post #A7tWWyyrEAH7j4rrrU by mhoye@mastodon.social
2021-06-03T02:03:58Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith What if the solution to “I don’t understand my dependencies, but it works on my machine” was to make everyone run my machine? Answer: Docker.
(DIR) Post #A7tZvJtRQTg1OjdBSq by smeg@assortedflotsam.com
2021-06-03T02:58:50Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith Docker and similar containers encourage developers not to keep their dependencies up to date, resulting in dated and insecure code being run. And if that container accesses outside container data, now those containers can be compromised as well.It doesn't provide value in many deployments and encourages product users to be ignorant of how the product works.
(DIR) Post #A7tjR33wR8Ae3KkLY0 by santiago@mastodon.uy
2021-06-03T04:45:25Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith docker is an african word that means ’i dont know how to install it manually`
(DIR) Post #A7u6wvmBMQWjfObyVM by newt@stereophonic.space
2021-06-03T09:09:10.220938Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith because software packaging and deployment in Linux is shit and Docker is the less painful way to do it
(DIR) Post #A7u7A42dwPMJ4AZcAq by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-06-03T09:11:33.232308Z
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@newt If you have different architectural needs, Docker makes the process *much* more painful. It has its place in a stack but not necessarily everyone's.
(DIR) Post #A7u7Ek5VYXxmd28ztw by newt@stereophonic.space
2021-06-03T09:12:24.468856Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith cool. Nobody really cares since Docker still works for most people, including devs.
(DIR) Post #A7uAowzrL2Usx6SWK8 by cubicroot@mastodon.online
2021-06-03T09:39:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolithIf I write software in my free time it is my decision what I offer for manuals and installation methods. If I do not want to invest time in supporting and figuring out dozens of installation methods that's not my fault. If you feel the need for a software to support other ways to install it go to GitHub fork it, change it and open a pull request. Instead of complaining about those "evil programmers" on social media.
(DIR) Post #A7uAoxULVgsqTeirqK by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-06-03T09:52:32.461392Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cubicroot > I do not want to invest time in supporting and figuring out dozens of installation methodsI never once said you should. My point is that if a developer is making something they *want* others to host, the single baseline deployment method should be documentation for installing and running the application itself. Other methods are a bonus. > If you feel the need for a software to support …If you read elsewhere in the thread, that's exactly what I've done. Earlier today, I contacted the developer of the project that pushed me over the edge about this and have committed to writing, maintaining, and supporting a proper installation guide.
(DIR) Post #A7uE2gWdftTnmg236m by enigmatico@fedi.absturztau.be
2021-06-03T10:28:39.733701Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@amolith Docker should be an option, not the norm.
(DIR) Post #A7uKmEeCFxioMqfd2m by mangeurdenuage@shitposter.club
2021-06-03T11:44:07.809093Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith :Install Gentoo:
(DIR) Post #A7uO1MHKSwsyF1sRfc by mmu_man@m.g3l.org
2021-06-03T12:20:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith hmm I suppose you could install Docker inside a VM… :think: ➡️🚪
(DIR) Post #A84GK5cLmLW61AjIsC by harald@hub.volse.no
2021-06-03T17:53:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@[NEW INSTANCE] Amolith Very much this! I'm hosting my stuff on FreeBSD, and docker isn't really a natural fit there at all. (I've heard it's doable.) I'm fine with having docker as an option for those that want it, but proper install instructions and information on dependencies should be the default.