Post A7dA2VLp3JbHch7EYK by swansinflight@lowkey.party
(DIR) More posts by swansinflight@lowkey.party
(DIR) Post #A7d45I7U6RhRjNM3dY by Seirdy@pleroma.envs.net
2021-05-26T03:40:32.765257Z
7 likes, 8 repeats
So #freenode staff started taking over closed channels with @liberachat in their topic, setting -ov on channel ops, and changing channel names.[23:07:10] freenodecom (~com@freenode/staff) joined the channel[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode +o freenodecom[23:07:10] freenodecom changed the topic to This channel has moved to ##wikimedia-libera. The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies[23:07:10] <@freenodecom> This channel has been reopened with respect to the communities and new users. The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies[23:07:10] OperServ sets mode +o freenodecom[23:07:10] ChanServ sets mode +ipsf-bb ##wikimedia-libera *!~NODE@* *!*@pool-173-48-112-26.bstnma.fios.verizon.net[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov tjr tjr[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov foks foks[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov quiddity quiddity[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Platonides Platonides[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov sqldb sqldb[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov AlexZ AlexZ[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov delphine delphine[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Eggnog Eggnog[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Bsadowski1 Bsadowski1[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Lozenge Lozenge[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Operator873 Operator873[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov [1997kB] [1997kB][23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Danny_B Danny_B[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov L235 L235[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov kerberizer kerberizer[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov TBloemink TBloemink[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov danilo danilo[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov JD|cloud JD|cloud[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Urbanecm Urbanecm[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Skynet Skynet[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov petan petan[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov enhydra enhydra[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Waggie Waggie[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov majavah majavah[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov NotASpy NotASpy[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov snowolf snowolf[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Keegan Keegan[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Matthew Matthew[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov thib thib[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov FastLizard4 FastLizard4[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov DannyS712 DannyS712[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov Krenair Krenair[23:07:10] freenodecom sets mode -ov stwalkerster stwalkerster[23:07:11] <@freenodecom> The new channel is ##wikimedia-libera[23:07:17] freenodecom (~com@freenode/staff) left the channelTo everyone sticking on Freenode because new staff might not be so bad: there ya go.
(DIR) Post #A7d46TIK2akCg7zFAG by Seirdy@pleroma.envs.net
2021-05-26T03:45:13.934645Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@liberachat Another example: https://pastebin.com/raw/dcivQs9YDay changed to 26 May 202104:57:45 -!- freenodecom [~com@freenode/staff] has joined #frosted04:57:45 -!- mode/#frosted [+o freenodecom] by freenodecom04:57:45 -!- freenodecom changed the topic of #frosted to: This channel has moved to ##frosted. The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies04:57:45 <@freenodecom> This channel has been reopened with respect to the communities and new users. The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies04:57:45 -!- mode/#frosted [-ov brabo brabo] by freenodecom04:57:45 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #frosted to: THIS CHANNEL MOVED TO LIBERA.CHAT DUE TO A HOSTILE TAKEOVER OF FREENODE AND ITS USER DATA!!!! | worried about your personal data at freenode ltd? easy gpdr request tool: https://www.mydatadoneright.eu/04:57:45 -!- mode/#frosted [-v ChanServ] by freenodecom04:57:46 < freenodecom> The new channel is ##frosted04:57:48 -!- mode/#frosted [-o freenodecom] by ChanServ04:57:53 -!- mode/#frosted [+spmf ##frosted] by freenodecom04:57:53 -!- freenodecom [~com@freenode/staff] has left #frosted []04:57:56 -!- mode/#frosted [+f ##frosted] by freenodecom04:59:59 [Users #frosted]04:59:59 [@ChanServ] [ brabo] 04:59:59 -!- Irssi: #frosted: Total of 2 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal]05:00:23 -!- mode/#frosted [+o brabo] by ChanServ05:00:46 -!- mode/#frosted [-fps] by brabo05:00:53 -!- mode/#frosted [-m] by braboPlease, do not mention “Libera” in you channel name; doing so will cause it to be targeted. I suggest making the channel topic a link to a page that explains the situation.
(DIR) Post #A7d4Yk9OxoD746IN8a by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-26T03:52:18.919607Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Seirdy https://bin.nixnet.services/?685795252fa6e3d0#5asfAWy2x2bXMs62SJVC5H5XYAHwMhKEYhYT1dkKSFrR2021-05-26 03:07:12 --> freenodecom (~com@freenode/staff) has joined #nixnet2021-05-26 03:07:12 -- Mode #nixnet [+o freenodecom] by freenodecom2021-05-26 03:07:12 -- freenodecom has changed topic for #nixnet from "Due to the takeover of Freenode, this channel is being moved to Libera: libera.chat" to "This channel has moved to ##nixnet. The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies";2021-05-26 03:07:12 @freenodecom This channel has been reopened with respect to the communities and new users. The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies2021-05-26 03:07:12 -- Mode #nixnet [-ov amolith amolith] by freenodecom2021-05-26 03:07:12 -- Mode #nixnet [+o freenodecom] by OperServ2021-05-26 03:07:12 -- Mode #nixnet [+c] by ChanServ2021-05-26 03:07:13 @freenodecom The new channel is ##nixnet2021-05-26 03:07:19 -- Mode #nixnet [+spim] by freenodecom2021-05-26 03:07:19 <-- freenodecom (~com@freenode/staff) has left #nixnet
(DIR) Post #A7d4fUNM0rjuAQ2Puy by Seirdy@pleroma.envs.net
2021-05-26T03:53:12.944360Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@amolith @liberachat ok holy shit, it’s 10x worse than that: open channels on Freenode that mention “libera” but haven’t moved are getting shut down:20:05 --> freenodecom [freenode-placehol] (www.freenode.net) (~com@freenode/staff) has joined #newsboat20:05 -- freenodecom has changed topic for #newsboat from "We intend to migrate off Freenode. What do you prefer: OFTC or Libera.chat? Details here: https://github.com/newsboat/newsboat/issues/1643"; to "This channel has moved to ##newsboat. The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies";20:05 <@freenodecom> This channel has been reopened with respect to the communities and new users. The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies20:05 -- Mode #newsboat [+o freenodecom] by OperServ20:05 -- Mode #newsboat [+impsf ##newsboat] by ChanServ20:05 <@freenodecom> The new channel is ##newsboat20:05 <-- freenodecom (~com@freenode/staff) has left #newsboat20:47 <Seirdy> ok what the hell another takeover20:47 -- #newsboat: Cannot send to nick/channelMy timezone is UTC-0700, so this happened at 03:00 on 05-27 in Archived paste: https://web.archive.org/web/20210526034941/https://termbin.com/djmjPing @minoru Please spread word not to mention “libera” in a fnode topic. Your channel will get shut down and replaced with a different one with different ops that doesn’t mention “libera”.
(DIR) Post #A7d4sgJkvMu0y8e5sO by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-26T03:55:54.455452Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Seirdy @minoru what the fuck. he just made a shitty bot that does this for any channel mentioning "libera" without actually verifying anything. fantastic way to get everyone to abandon freenode as fast as possible
(DIR) Post #A7dA2VLp3JbHch7EYK by swansinflight@lowkey.party
2021-05-26T04:25:48.505856Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @Seirdy @minoru what everyone should do is move to another centralised service. Like another IRC server. Looking at spinning up your own Matrix server is definitely not the way to go to retain control of your platform and channels.
(DIR) Post #A7dA2VoXKYZL3kYAJE by Seirdy@pleroma.envs.net
2021-05-26T04:47:04.416711Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@swansinflight @amolith @minoru I've responded to this idea in the Libravatar-Fans mailing list: https://lists.launchpad.net/libravatar-fans/msg00330.html
(DIR) Post #A7dA5nyWGTleFmn1Bw by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-26T04:54:18.982658Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@swansinflight @Seirdy @minoru I can't stand using Matrix. None of the clients are any good for various reasons, synapse is a piece of crap, dendrite still isn't ready, and yet the spec just grows and grows with no end in sight.
(DIR) Post #A7dAnOtgrgypDYJpR2 by fluffy@social.handholding.io
2021-05-26T05:02:11.715722Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @Seirdy @minoru i imagine people who are uninterested in the libera stuff will be grateful to see it shut down so rigorously. idk tho, what does it look like boots on the ground?
(DIR) Post #A7dBPmWxRewzWFzHQe by Seirdy@pleroma.envs.net
2021-05-26T05:08:13.589612Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@amolith @minoru Andrew Lee (rasengan) just posted this: https://web.archive.org/web/20210525231635/https://freenode.net/news/for-fossAdapting a comment I made on the Orange Site:It’s hilarious that rasengan is complaining about “fracturing the FOSS community”.For example, #newsboat members decided to move by June 5th, and we’ve been deciding between OFTC and Libera. Then this happened:(see the log for newsboat higher up in the thread)Great. Now none of us can speak on #newsboat, making coordination to switch much harder. New users might get confused and join the wrong channel operated by a hostile party. The community is more fractured now.To everyone with a freenode channel: whatever you do, do not mention “libera” in your channel topic. That’s the trigger for this action.
(DIR) Post #A7dHlfB248wWoAY6Eq by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-26T06:20:18.297025Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fluffy @Seirdy @minoru lots of dead channels on freenode and lots of active channels on libera. my logs have almost doubled in size; 501 MB of nothing but text nowwhat seriously concerns me is that people joining these namespaces in the future (#nixnet for example) will be directed to the off-topic namespace in a manner that seems official, as if the project itself has actually moved there. in reality, that's not the case at all and there is nothing on freenode to indicate otherwise. people will be joining empty channels and thinking "where the fuck is everyone? guess it's all dead"i swear lee is acting like a little kid. if he had put *any* thought into this, he would have seen how damaging it could be to the foss projects he says he loves so dearly.
(DIR) Post #A7dIKOjBDQX5vY5GsK by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2021-05-26T06:26:34.133073Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @minoru @Seirdy @fluffy That is if freenode will still be alive by then, which I doubt, not going to take bets on when but the number of users is dropping way fast.
(DIR) Post #A7dJeb516FxDyzUfPk by swansinflight@lowkey.party
2021-05-26T06:03:53.470920Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @Seirdy @minoru as a user that doesn’t deal with the back end it works perfectly. (I realise that doesn’t help you, it’s just why I suggested it) I’ve used wire, jami, session... for messaging nothing is as reliable as matrix. On both android and iOS. Larger rooms I’m unsure how it handles, I’m only in what I consider smaller ones. Interesting.
(DIR) Post #A7dJebY5MBCrR95siu by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-26T06:41:26.694117Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@swansinflight Part of the problem with the clients is that Element is the only one that works and it's really bloated. I also dislike the UX but that's a personal thing. The other clients are either missing features or simply have odd behaviour. The best not-Element client is probably FluffyChat but I know people who don't get any notifications from it and whose received messages are unreliably marked as read so it always looks as if they have new messages from someone. There are also quirks with editing text because it's written in Flutter and uses a fairly new UI toolkit iirc. It's also missing features exposed in Element.There are many other clients but every single one of them shares a common problem: they're missing features exposed in Element that everyone using Element expects. The developers can barely keep up with the breakneck pace at which the Matrix spec grows.I find myself linking to @Seirdy's tangentially-related post a lot lol. The whole article is important context but I'm specifically referring to the case study about Matrix and Element.https://seirdy.one/2021/02/23/keeping-platforms-open.html
(DIR) Post #A7dKFbgDpclmYgXltQ by swansinflight@lowkey.party
2021-05-26T06:44:21.363722Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @Seirdy yep I do agree with all of those points. I just deal with the bloat honestly, but it’s not ideal yeah. They need a feature freeze so everyone can catch up and just work on stability and reliability of things liner notifications for a bit I think. That’s not fun and exciting though heh.
(DIR) Post #A7dKFcGNfBh2MpSeFk by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-26T06:48:07.356208Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@swansinflight @Seirdy > just work on stability and reliabilitythis x1000imo they should be focusing on dendrite instead of implementing sPaCeS. It's a cool feature and has very real value but it shouldn't be at the expense of a solid server implementation. The more features they tape onto synapse, the more features they're going to have to tape onto dendrite, the worse the rewrite will end up being.
(DIR) Post #A7dKREiH31ognq35gu by swansinflight@lowkey.party
2021-05-26T06:49:58.645158Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @Seirdy yes. I forgot about spaces. I assume it’s like communities, which I never worked or how to use. Hmm. I feel like they need to developer stuff then announce... but then being open someone will see the code anyway and bring it up so 🤷🏻♂️
(DIR) Post #A7dL7kW1CKHJbAaWYa by basspistol@t.basspistol.org
2021-05-26T06:56:20.645731Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @swansinflight @Seirdy ye... less new features and more of this:https://matrix.org/blog/2020/06/02/introducing-p-2-p-matrixok, maybe that's a new feature too and probably it's bloating the bloat, but it looks good on paper.
(DIR) Post #A7dLcRMwQwkNC5ye6y by Seirdy@pleroma.envs.net
2021-05-26T06:53:32.925606Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @swansinflight Agreed. Just to add: Conduit looks poised to be a functioning Synapse replacement before Dendrite, according to some people in the know.I don't think Matrix is "bad", it's just "less good". It's less dependent on the goodwill of admins than IRC but more dependent on the developers and spec designers at Element.
(DIR) Post #A7dLcRr4cuqkhY4i4u by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-26T07:03:26.907537Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Seirdy @swansinflight Oh, I thought Conduit was further behind than Dendrite. Maybe I need to take a look at it again :bunthink: I just want a good XMPP client. Everything about its architecture is just beautiful but none of the desktop clients are that good and, from what I've heard, iOS support is crap because stupid Apple restrictions :akko_sad:
(DIR) Post #A7dMDB1QAt53D1Qcpk by aidalgol@koyu.space
2021-05-26T07:08:52Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@swansinflight @minoru @amolith @Seirdy As someone who has dealt with the backend, it's really expensive to run even a single-user server, because of the way the protocol deals with history, the server slowly eats more and more RAM and CPU time, and if any of your users join a large room, the entire server can OOM. And then get stuck in an OOM loop after restarts. I used to be a matrix fanboy, but after being really enthusiastic about it for a couple years, I have to say that it is fundamentally, fatally flawed (on the backend). And that makes me sad.
(DIR) Post #A7dMZLtqPb1LJhSUQC by amolith@nixnet.social
2021-05-26T07:14:06.316898Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@aidalgol @swansinflight @minoru @Seirdy This is *precisely* why I don't want to touch synapse. I'm using a friend's instance right now but he explicitly asked that I be conservative with how many channels I join and their size.I shudder to think how much it costs to run matrix.org :buneyes:
(DIR) Post #A7dMcI9Oo7bWYe8Tw0 by aidalgol@koyu.space
2021-05-26T07:14:21Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Seirdy @liberachat @minoru @amolith Yeah, #emacs got hit by this. We said in the topic that we were moving, but the channel was not changed in any other way. The freenode policy (linked by that bot) only says that locking a channel so that users can not join or speak is not allowed, so they're overreaching their own damn policy.
(DIR) Post #A7dMmZg2V1CvoLJ2kS by aidalgol@koyu.space
2021-05-26T07:14:47Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amolith @minoru @swansinflight @Seirdy It's great if you like burning money.