Post A7csLi9BtzUZdZDSSW by Low-IQ@poa.st
(DIR) More posts by Low-IQ@poa.st
(DIR) Post #A7bgQWuFjJQTc7nfnM by Vasta218@poa.st
2021-05-25T11:47:12.196046Z
23 likes, 9 repeats
(DIR) Post #A7bushAKZuFstoe3nM by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T14:29:09.706847Z
17 likes, 5 repeats
@Vasta218 Yes thank you friend. Please remember that Mr. Mussolini has made it into heaven. Please try to go to heaven as well so you can be his friend there. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7c3IEZWJKINNc7FmS by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T16:03:25.090148Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe @Vasta218 I am orthodox but I unironically believe and endorse this emphatically and without reservation.
(DIR) Post #A7c45SK7yFQaDgO3Vo by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T16:12:18.810212Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe @Vasta218 Yo this shit isn't standard Catholic theology, is it? That you can pay your debts to God on your own suffering's merits?
(DIR) Post #A7c4Jn2pj8p2XU8ITo by Svantovit@shitposter.club
2021-05-25T16:14:54.349504Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @bebe @Vasta218 In purgatory, I believe. Not sure about having a plethora of mortal sins stapled to your soul.
(DIR) Post #A7c6v9bozp0l8zRUv2 by AnonFromPorlock@poa.st
2021-05-25T16:41:17.684867Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @bebe @Vasta218 You’re not meriting salvation in Purgatory, you’re suffering the “temporal consequences of sin,” which are painful. Salvation is exclusively in and from Christ. In Purgatory, God cleanses the soul of all impurity (e.g., lasting stains of a lifelong habitual sin for which one nevertheless had received absolution before death – the sin is indeed forgiven, but its effect on the person, his mind or inclinations [I don’t honestly know what is said about how those sorts of things work after death, although we do still have free will in Heaven, it’s just that everybody there has already been made perfect…], may remain without God’s continued help and purification[/sanctification?]), which cannot be in Heaven, which is the guaranteed destination of all who go to Purgatory.
(DIR) Post #A7c6vA7j5CX2jwMyeG by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T16:44:03.908922Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe Where is this in the Bible?
(DIR) Post #A7c7UNj6V2Wz41e9U8 by hourmutt@poa.st
2021-05-25T16:50:25.968784Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe Rev 21:27, Nothing unclean shall enter Heaven. 1 Cor 3:13-15 Men will be tested for their works on the Last Day before they receive their reward.
(DIR) Post #A7c9Ok6YaJP0dj3UoK by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T17:11:49.317690Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@hourmutt @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe Ah good, I’m glad you also like Revelation! Let’s see what Revelation says about cleaning, shall we?Rev 1:4-6: Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.>To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.andRevelation 14: After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”>[…] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.I’m glad you know that nothing unclean shall enter Heaven. Now embrace Jesus’ sacrifice for your sins as the thing that cleans you, and reject this heresy that you can earn your way into Heaven the rest of the way.
(DIR) Post #A7cAGLwubukZMO6jGS by Vasta218@poa.st
2021-05-25T17:21:30.716883Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @hourmutt @AnonFromPorlock @bebe become woke on Toll Houses
(DIR) Post #A7cALgvc2RNvsD2rh2 by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T17:22:28.616312Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Vasta218 @AnonFromPorlock @bebe @hourmutt Become Christian.
(DIR) Post #A7cAewS8XhGFWYRBWC by Vasta218@poa.st
2021-05-25T17:25:57.339121Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @bebe @hourmutt become heterosexual
(DIR) Post #A7cAtycel3SCb4WkJE by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T17:28:40.365387Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Vasta218 @AnonFromPorlock @bebe @hourmutt Leave the memes at the door. Christianity isn't about muh aesthetics or funny jokes. Recognize Jesus as your savior, no ifs, ands, or buts. Develop a relationship with him. Don't just say his name. This isn't a sportsball team allegiance matter. This is about your soul.
(DIR) Post #A7cBY9OG8v2vZlwvCq by hourmutt@poa.st
2021-05-25T17:35:55.991978Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe You misunderstand what Purgatory is. If you are destined for Heaven (ie in a state of Grace) that does not mean tou are without sin -- only without unabsolved mortal sin that would seperate you from Jesus. Thus before you can enter Heaven, you must be *completely* purified with righteous fire. The more works you have to account for, the longer this process will take.
(DIR) Post #A7cBl5POG4U8zWe9JY by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T17:38:16.294095Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hourmutt @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe Again, show me where this is in the Bible. This sounds like a load of invented bullshit like the Mormons and Muslims throw around.
(DIR) Post #A7cC6NKOpSoWeISnnU by hourmutt@poa.st
2021-05-25T17:42:07.157260Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe Again, 1 Corinthians{3:13} Every man's work shall be manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire. And the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is.{3:14} If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.{3:15} If any mans work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
(DIR) Post #A7cDlXq6kiZL4oURCy by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:00:45.827597Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hourmutt @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe Have you read 1 Corinthians? Have you even read the third chapter of 1st Corinthians? I doubt it, as the way you're pretending this supports your claim about a period of burning to earn your way into Heaven is dead wrong.Paul starts the letter in the first chapter by saying that he's alarmed that people are claiming themselves to be followers of specific people who brought the Word to them. Then in the third chapter he rebukes them for calling themselves "of Paul" or "of Apollos" by saying that reveals them to be babes in Christ, not mature.This leads right into verse 5:> "Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.">"For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."Even in the verses you're quoting, if you look at the entire paragraph, it shows your own misrepresentation to be dangerous! Build the foundation of the church on Jesus Christ alone. Not on any other teachings or traditions. All of that will be burned away! If you do truly believe in Jesus you'll still be saved, but you're losing out on the rewards in Heaven you could have earned if you'd just built your faith entirely on Jesus and done works atop that faith, not atop of your other materials.And what's more, none of this talks about any period of suffering, no years spent in some place of torment to finish earning your way to Heaven. This is about whether you are storing your treasures up in Heaven, or on Earth where they shall be burned away and you will not receive any reward for them.
(DIR) Post #A7cDmqtROeMcSbfk9I by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:01:00.010655Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@hourmutt @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe Have you read 1 Corinthians? Have you even read the third chapter of 1st Corinthians? I doubt it, as the way you’re pretending this supports your claim about a period of burning to earn your way into Heaven is dead wrong.Paul starts the letter in the first chapter by saying that he’s alarmed that people are claiming themselves to be followers of specific people who brought the Word to them. Then in the third chapter he rebukes them for calling themselves “of Paul” or “of Apollos” by saying that reveals them to be babes in Christ, not mature.This leads right into verse 5:“Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.”>”For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.”Even in the verses you’re quoting, if you look at the entire paragraph, it shows your own misrepresentation to be dangerous! Build the foundation of the church on Jesus Christ alone. Not on any other teachings or traditions. All of that will be burned away! If you do truly believe in Jesus you’ll still be saved, but you’re losing out on the rewards in Heaven you could have earned if you’d just built your faith entirely on Jesus and done works atop that faith, not atop of your other materials.And what’s more, none of this talks about any period of suffering, no years spent in some place of torment to finish earning your way to Heaven. This is about whether you are storing your treasures up in Heaven, or on Earth where they shall be burned away and you will not receive any reward for them.
(DIR) Post #A7cDs7z5HQAwunpMqO by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:01:57.110571Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hourmutt @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe And to any of you upvoting this guy, I earnestly plead you to read 1 Corinthians yourself. Do not rely on deceivers quoting small sections to support something that is not in the Bible. Please, do your soul this service and read the Word of God.
(DIR) Post #A7cFcLUxT12g6TL3T6 by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:21:30.693940Z
6 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @hourmutt @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe I think we are all well intentioned here, but the protestant biblical doctrine of “Sola scriptural” needs to be taken with some big heaping mounds of salt.For the record, Orthodoxy has no doctrine or equivalent doctrine to purgatory (tollhouse are one image suggested in a dream from one saint, not doctrine) so I’m not defending it perse, but if we insist that we must reject the teachings of anyone other than Christ we ignore that it was Christ himself who appointed the apostles to spread the gospel and his teachings, that Saint Paul was chosen by Christ as well to do the same, than the letters of Paul among others are included in scripture because they are essential for understanding the gospels and the teachings of Christ.Paul wouldn’t argue we should ignore what he says simply because he is not Christ.And we can’t appeal to scripture as being the definitive authority during the years Paul wrote his letter because the canon of literature wouldn’t be put together (including the apocrypha) until the fourth century.While Protestants generally diverge on many things, there are several areas where they are mostly in harmony.Most noteworthy being the doctrine of the trinity, which could not be settled by the gospels and the Epistles alone, but required a church council to expound a creed and stamp out arianism.Protestants have inherited the “apostles” creed from that creed, and their doctrine of the trinity from an early church council. These exist independent of scripture, even though they are in complete agreement with scripture.We can argue over when the church/if the church lost its way, but you cant go full 100% Sola scriptura without putting yourself out on a very shakey limb.
(DIR) Post #A7cGJfMfTqNwAa7MSO by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:29:20.365207Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I'm telling people to read the Bible, trust in Jesus' sacrifice for our salvation, and develop a relationship with Jesus through an active prayer life.I don't care what reason you have for your heaping mounds of salt, I reject them all. No extra Biblical teachings, no false doctrines, no additional requirements for salvation, no wolves in sheep's clothing.Simple as.
(DIR) Post #A7cGUQi0JKlttuEJoe by LouisConde@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:31:17.112434Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Bro, just rejoice in the fact that Il Duce is in Heaven.
(DIR) Post #A7cGeE2YGcsPVPVncG by Vasta218@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:33:03.358343Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@LouisConde @Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @JSDorn @bebe @hourmutt As is Plato!
(DIR) Post #A7cGtmzObqjqF4SPAm by CosmaruCiorilor@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:35:52.151260Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @hourmutt @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe I like these passages that exemplify how Heaven works, it is really motivating
(DIR) Post #A7cGvBqtegdLdu9LVI by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:36:07.315527Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@LouisConde @AnonFromPorlock @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt You should rejoice for everyone that goes to Heaven, and you should work without tiring to ensure as many people as possible join them.
(DIR) Post #A7cH0Q3sFjWt9yiHiK by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:37:04.079167Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@CosmaruCiorilor @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Yeah, it's remarkably focusing, isn't it?
(DIR) Post #A7cH5O4D60o4QDEu00 by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:37:57.895249Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt but it’s not that simple.Be white for a second and realize that the bible didn’t fall down from heaven like mana, it was put together by the early church, who had to have an existing set of doctrines to rely on up to that point. Catholic and Orthodox claim inheritance from that early church tradition which includes scripture and subsequent teachings afterwards.Infact both churches remained united for a thousand years before they split. Even after that, it wasn’t until very recently in the history of the reformation that certain Protestants came to express the way of obtaining salvation in the exact formula you propose.For 80% to 90% of church history, being “saved” was a lifelong process requiring the sacraments of baptism, chrismation/confirmation and regular confession to/before a priest. Some were/ are called to the monastic life, which also seeks salvation through prayer, fasting and the rejection of the passions.None of these things “earn” salvation, but are testaments to ones faith. We know from scripture that faith without works is dead. We do not fast, confess or pray in order to be “good” but to become closer to God.
(DIR) Post #A7cHAdPjSm8DT4oBAO by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:38:54.761830Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@LouisConde @Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt bebe, according to catholic tradition, does this mean that it would be acceptable to render prayers for intercession to IL Duce? Or would that be wrong?
(DIR) Post #A7cHTopjEMPQO17EGG by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:42:22.765448Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt No.I trust in what the Bible says as the Word of God. I trust that He worked to ensure that what is needed for us was put into it. And I reject everything else as the additions of men who are so quick to fall away from Jesus that much of the Bible we have was Paul writing letters to correct things already going wrong even while he was still alive.As such, claims to tradition or history are invalid, even from the start. Things grew even worse because the common man could not read the Bible. Translating it into languages people could read allowed us to cut through the false teachings. Simple as.None of these things “earn” salvation, but are testaments to ones faith. We know from scripture that faith without works is dead. We do not fast, confess or pray in order to be “good” but to become closer to God.Yes, that’s biblically supported and no one is disagreeing with that.
(DIR) Post #A7cI304hQXIRO1tTtY by FirebrandJay@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:48:44.338956Z
7 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt friendly reminder that pretty much everyone in the thread agrees on that Jesus is the way to heaven, and that any and all disagreements here are matters of heavenly procedurals which none of us will understand in their entirety until after we’ve all been through them
(DIR) Post #A7cIU9zcexq3xwTCmO by CosmaruCiorilor@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:53:38.762367Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Going only after what the Bible says is the safest path. (except for people that tend to be naturally attracted to heresy, and thus they will twist it's words) There is no denial of that.But we shouldn't disregard everything that is tied to tradition. Many legitimate, correct & valid interpretations of the Bible are from the Church Fathers like St John Chrystostom or St Augustine ( if I remember correctly these 2 also played an important role in establishing the NT canon).The way I roll is I rely on the Bible but if there are things that I don't understand from it, I search for what the Church Fathers wrote on it.
(DIR) Post #A7cIXRifD3UDoQ6XfU by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:54:14.138225Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@FirebrandJay @AnonFromPorlock @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Maybe. I have doubts that Catholics actually believe that Jesus is the way to Heaven when they think there is an intermediary stage in which they must finish earning their way to Heaven.Do you really fully trust in a ship's captain to get you safely to shore if you believe you have to jump out and swim the final hundred yards?
(DIR) Post #A7cIY7s0UhuqXYnb3w by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:54:21.844469Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @hourmutt @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 Yes here is another passage which is more explicit. Some of the soldiers had died, and it was found that it was because they were engaging in superstition by using the good luck charms. This was not a terrible enough sin to condemn them to hell, but Mr. Judas Maccabees realized that they still needed to be loosed of their sins. It mentions that it is good to pray for the dead, but those in heaven do not need our prayers, and those in hell cannot be helped by our prayers. This means there is still a place where people go after they die and still have some stain of their sins upon them, where prayer can benefit them. We call such a place purgatory. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7cIcSyhxO6xAF0FM0 by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:55:08.885647Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @hourmutt This is from before Jesus died on the cross. Shut up, liar.
(DIR) Post #A7cIqqw3gI0DWKcj44 by Vasta218@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:57:44.917079Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @bebe @AnonFromPorlock @hourmutt yes, those that died before Jesus may be in heaven, for instance the attestation of St Athanasius of Plato coming in a dream saying "Cease cursing me! For when Christ descended into hell there were none who accepted Him before I did."
(DIR) Post #A7cIrj4QPOmTPuxAbQ by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:57:54.362918Z
6 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @hourmutt Yes purgatory also existed before Jesus' death upon the cross. We have no reason to believe it went away after that, especially since it was common practice to pray for the dead since the very early days of the Church. It was not until about 1500 years after Christ when Mr. Luther came that people began to reject the idea of purgatory.
(DIR) Post #A7cIxGEuVvyNjlUt4C by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:58:54.281256Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Vasta218 @AnonFromPorlock @bebe @hourmutt Acting like that's still relevant to us today when Jesus blood is available to wash our sins is so dishonest as to be an intentional lie.
(DIR) Post #A7cJ27eVrsIkYKn5GK by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:59:47.114946Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @hourmutt Even in the days of Paul there were common practices that were wrong and had to be condemned.Read. The. Bible.
(DIR) Post #A7cJ2aEzZq7PDa4c0e by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T18:59:51.993352Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@Vasta218 @Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @hourmutt Yes we believe that on Holy Saturday, Jesus descended into the place called limbo, or Abraham's bosom as it is called once in the gospels, to free those who had died before the crucifixion and lead them into heaven.
(DIR) Post #A7cJCwbXHhcHTPYgHQ by deadheat@kiwifarms.cc
2021-05-25T19:01:44.453433Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe @Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @hourmutt Is Hey bebe, is Luther in purgatory or in hell? Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7cJI7ExAVHjuKSg9A by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:02:40.547924Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @hourmutt Yes I actually have read the entire new testament. Before I became the Catholic, I read 1 Corinthians 3 and thought it sounded a lot like the purgatory. As far as I am concerned both the old and new testaments support it, and the Church which Jesus founded also agrees that it is real. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7cJMB07819IjHSO0G by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:03:24.559093Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I’d point out a few things. First that the original bible of the church included the Apocryphal books, which Luther chose to discard from his own canon of scripture because up to that point in history, original language manuscripts had not been found. They have been found since.I’d ask any protestant whether or not that means the apocryphal books should be in the bible or not. Luther had no hesitation to disregard the guiding role the Holy Spirit had in compiling the canon of scripture and exclude books he felt did not belong. Ironically protestants today, using Luther’s rule would almost certainly include the apocrypha in Scripture today, but don’t. I suspect it’s because they traditionally haven’t done so and it would be very disruptive to change their canon now.Not that I have any sort of hard-on for the apocrypha. I’m not aware of any specific doctrine that relies on them. Their not really controversial. I bring it up to highlight the fact that when it comes to interpreting scripture, even Protestants can’t do it without some sort of a priori tradition upon which to ground their understanding.And to further your point, the church indeed encountered many heresies during it’s history. Still does today. Within the book of Acts itself we even see one resolved.Note how the church settles the question over whether or not one must become Jewish before they become christian. The apostles and other high church leaders (including Saint John the brother of Christ, bishop of Jerusalem at the time) came together and developed a consensus on the issue. They did not have biblical text to rely on, and the Epistles hadn’t even been written yet. They were able to count on the Holy Spirit to guide them to an answer, the same way the Holy Spirit guided the council of Nicea to affirm the doctrine of the trinity in the fourth century.The orthodox point to church councils like Nicea as the authoritative means of settling disputes over doctrine. There were six more big councils like that prior to the west/east split. From them we came to understand other doctrines like The Holy Spirit is a divine person of GodChrist is completely divine AND completely human,Christ was born into this natureAnd so on. All things (with perhaps the exception of the 7th ecumenical council on icons) that mainline Protestants agree.Protestants only have consensus on these matters because the early church stamped out these heresies. Sola Scriptura wasn’t necessary and wouldn’t have been helpful in dealing with those heresies, yet for a die-hard protestant, there’s no other way to deal with heresy.
(DIR) Post #A7cJRXjI3EYQfX99Vo by Vasta218@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:04:22.789952Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @bebe @AnonFromPorlock @hourmutt i have read it frequently, and frequently misunderstood it and had wrong assumptions of meanings that were clearly understood later by me from Patristics lol.
(DIR) Post #A7cJV8UnoMT5ZB5EOG by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:05:01.708607Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @hourmutt See, I know you didn't because you're saying the same thing as the other guy. Canned responses given to you because you didn't actually read it. You have no idea what that letter was about.
(DIR) Post #A7cJbtdpRDePWVWr8C by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:06:15.000541Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @hourmutt I am sure many others can testify, I used to run the bible study group on the twitter, where we read one chapter per day. We went through the entire new testament before I had become a Catholic.
(DIR) Post #A7cJjjyXGAzFrSxFse by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:07:40.059955Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @hourmutt You can scroll up in this thread to where I actually pasted the words of 1 Corinthians 3 and read them. It isn't hard. Please, just once, give it a try.
(DIR) Post #A7cJz2XOWo9jm6YTpY by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:10:25.911283Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @FirebrandJay @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I’m not an expert on catholic doctrine and find it unnecessarily legalistic but my understanding is that they see a difference between grace and merit.You can only be saved by grace, and can earn heaven by grave alone, but that being forgiven is not enough and that you must progress through some sort of expiation. Monastics endure purgatory in this life, but the saved who have sinful habits to heal from must go through purgatory.Offering a charitable comparison I’d say purgatory is a bit like rehab. It’s not enough to swear off drugs or alcohol and make up with your family. An addict sometimes have to go through painful withdrawal and rehabilitation. This is what I’d say purgatory, if real, is for.But that’s just my take.
(DIR) Post #A7cK17NxTWG1OC8GX2 by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:10:48.495042Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@deadheat @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @hourmutt We do not know for sure, although there was a nun who was visiting a church in Mr. Luther's hometown, and saw a vision of him in hell. Also there were reports that he had committed suicide, and the witness even described his darkened face accurately. So I would say it is likely that he is in hell although we cannot know for sure until the final judgement. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7cKE8lbeNg9REP2vo by Vasta218@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:13:09.757751Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @bebe @AnonFromPorlock @hourmutt you have a haughty and shit kike attitude so I won't be doing that, assuming nigger
(DIR) Post #A7cKM9hu2R1cffUbey by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:14:36.578027Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @hourmutt Yes and Mr. Armutt actually posted the three relevant verses for this topic. I thought those sounded a lot like the purgatory even when I was the protestant. I was not taught very much of Christianity growing up, so perhaps that has made me more open to reading things plainly instead of trying to make it fit with the interpretation that I was taught. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7cKXgczymwVxVhHma by deadheat@kiwifarms.cc
2021-05-25T19:16:41.325382Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @hourmutt That nun was very courageous for telling the world about her vision. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7cKabFWQwi8976aoq by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:17:13.240838Z
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@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @FirebrandJay @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Yeah, I get that. I'm saying they invented the difference so as to insert dangerous steps between Jesus and your salvation.I've legit had a devout Catholic tell me that he didn't know if he was saved, but he hoped he ended up in Heaven. That alarmed me greatly. "Whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."Yes, there's more we can do, should do. Yes, once the Holy Spirit dwells within you it'll inspire you to do more. Absolutely.But for the sake of your soul, believe in Jesus. Actually, fully believe in Jesus. Completely. No reservations, no safety nets.
(DIR) Post #A7cKhaFqWxFd5VaSwK by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:18:29.024311Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @hourmutt There's more to 1st Corinthians than three verses. Please stop reading just out of context quotes and read the Bible.
(DIR) Post #A7cKjcKTmtpA6Miwee by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:18:51.090468Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Vasta218 @AnonFromPorlock @bebe @hourmutt I wash the dust from my feet.
(DIR) Post #A7cL6s07geLtMoI37o by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:23:03.110891Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @FirebrandJay @Vasta218 @hourmutt Yes St. Paul tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We should never be overconfident and assume that we will go to heaven for sure.
(DIR) Post #A7cM45pRv1eVL3XNI0 by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:33:45.306208Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @FirebrandJay @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I’m not sure what a “dangerous” step would be.It comes back to very idea of what being “saved” means. This is of course a whole theological topic in and of itself, but there’s a really big difference between what Protestants and the other traditions believe.Catholics and orthodox do not call themselves “saved” your friend was right to characterize it as an uncertain state.In Catholicism and orthodoxy, the only people we know are saved are the saints. To call ourselves saved with confidence is to include ourselves in their ranks, which to us smacks of arrogance and pride.Keep in mind that all the church fathers and theologians throughout church history believed in faith as a journey towards salvation, not one which granted salvation out of the gate. The protestant take on this is a very recent one.I would argue that from a neutral position, the point of view that suggests you need not worry about your salvation, that it’s in the bag so to speak, is the more dangerous one.
(DIR) Post #A7cOFdlSHry1gKIqpc by DanaSpg@poa.st
2021-05-25T19:34:08.394018Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@bebe 1 John 5:13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(DIR) Post #A7cP4GW4TzngLcFO9g by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:07:24.195405Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@FirebrandJay Like I said. They don't even trust in Jesus for their salvation.
(DIR) Post #A7cQXITkMhVUmoZE7E by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:23:51.303687Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @FirebrandJay this is the part that always got me.Protestants assert that a plain reading of scripture is all you need to understand the truth.Yet the entire history of protestantism, which is the history of many generations of men applying this principle in good faith, has led to thousands (literally) of splinter groups.The differences between methodists, Presbyterians, episcopalians, lutherans, pentacostals, Baptists and so on may seem unimportant to the modern big tent evangelical, but these splits have doctrinal grounds and all come back to the fundamental failure of Sola Scriptura as a hermeneutic for understanding the bible.Telling someone to just read the Bible and assume they will come to the same understanding you do belies the fact that most Protestants inherit their faith the same way christians have for millennia, as a tradition handed down.
(DIR) Post #A7cRCVxt82kmUBJsJs by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:31:17.336140Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn I rebuke any who say that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was not sufficient for our salvation; I don't care what they call themselves or where they got that notion from.
(DIR) Post #A7cRXrS6R01fD0dBaq by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:35:09.766355Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant it is indeed insufficient.You may not have meant to omit the resurrection, but it’s ironic you did, as I always found it to be almost an afterthought in protestant soteriology.Orthodoxy affirms that Christ’s death on the cross was indeed an atonement for our sins, but that our hope for eternal life comes from the resurrection of Christ, not his death.Christ, by dying, destroys death. Death cannot swallow the immortal God and is made undone.Through Christ and through Christ alone can we find the promise of resurrection from death and eternal life.
(DIR) Post #A7cRm64CtWZgabF4RE by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:37:44.052788Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn Right. That's why you aren't a Christian.
(DIR) Post #A7cS6lzwhkuMQd6lma by Orangmawas@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:41:28.271284Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @JSDorn WOW GUYS LET GET READY FOR ANOTHER RELIGIOUS ARGUMENT HELL THREAD, INTRACHRISTIAN EDITION, YAHOO YIPPIE!!!!!
(DIR) Post #A7cSI1N5t4ZNIGIb8C by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:43:30.300823Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Orangmawas @Insomnolant no, were not going to have a hellthread. I like insomnolant and won’t break ranks with him when there are still Jews even if he calls me an apostate
(DIR) Post #A7cSIA77Nq8cPJtSym by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:43:31.801750Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Orangmawas @JSDorn This isn't an Intrachristian dispute, don't worry.
(DIR) Post #A7cSLy5A3gneFanEh6 by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:44:13.061986Z
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@Orangmawas @JSDorn This isn't an Intrachristian dispute, don't worry.Also I have no interest in a Hellthread. I think we've both said our pieces.
(DIR) Post #A7cSNRvmZDxj7972qe by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:44:29.172235Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant so you don’t think that Christ’s resurrection is necessary?
(DIR) Post #A7cSPiglEWj5fOAXVg by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:44:15.092821Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @Orangmawas @Insomnolant I think religious arguments are always gay regardless of context and niggas need to shut the hell up
(DIR) Post #A7cSPj3RsAsGnkmesC by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:44:53.671069Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @JSDorn @Orangmawas Absolutely not.
(DIR) Post #A7cShBw7kBVzIegbJY by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:45:39.552835Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas If you are critiquing any group not somehow tied in with world jewry in the context of the argument you are being less than useful
(DIR) Post #A7cSyTIqQf3i5GYMvA by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:51:10.557212Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @JSDorn @Orangmawas That's ridiculous. There's more to existence than Jews, and I am quite capable of being rabidly antisemitic while also denouncing other problems.
(DIR) Post #A7cT8eKQI8FbAt92UC by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:51:35.331227Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas Your existence stops when Jews win.
(DIR) Post #A7cTbWrH907GP8HYCu by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:58:14.006817Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Sola Scriptura is the mechanism by which the power abuses of the Catholic Church, which they inevitably grounded in tradition, were dealt with. By demolishing the entire human-constructed ediface of tradition and going back to the Word of God, Protestants were able to discard a lot of crap that wasn't serving their needs.
(DIR) Post #A7cTejq5L2PFX4FuTo by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:58:48.906476Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @JSDorn @Orangmawas But not all will be perfection on Earth just because Jews are defeated.
(DIR) Post #A7cTlSqstVossIpw7U by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:00:01.750977Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @Vsolid @JSDorn @Orangmawas Trying to (((walk))) and (((chew))) (((gum))) at the (((same time)))?
(DIR) Post #A7cTqq2Q7HuUEVnLpg by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:01:00.048144Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas @Vsolid There's other problems in the world other than Jews? Sounds like kike lies tbh fam
(DIR) Post #A7cU0cspsbucKYylfM by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:02:46.182255Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Umlauts @Godcast @JSDorn @Orangmawas @Vsolid Apparently not, according to internet weirdos.
(DIR) Post #A7cU25rDdngoTtvGHQ by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:43:08.462296Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Orangmawas @Insomnolant @JSDorn Good people go good place boom hellthread solves stfu you autistic catholics
(DIR) Post #A7cU26Ho2wxNoMMUim by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:03:02.120244Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @Orangmawas @Insomnolant that’s not correct, and I don’t think anybody tagged here is catholic.Sorry, once I start sperging….
(DIR) Post #A7cU78P1ba7Fp68fI0 by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:03:56.648196Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @Insomnolant @Orangmawas we can have good faith discussions over faith.
(DIR) Post #A7cUJTEVz3G5u26ZcG by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:06:10.503792Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @Godcast @JSDorn @Orangmawas @Vsolid Clearly Jews are the one and only supernatural evil of the world and you're a cuck if you think otherwise.
(DIR) Post #A7cUgYYWMOXL4TTFyK by Freelance-Elf@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:10:20.906804Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Orangmawas @Insomnolant @JSDorn WHO ARE THE REAL CHRISTIANS???Me.
(DIR) Post #A7cUkbDGQHfmTESKBc by AnonFromPorlock@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:06:08.105339Z
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@Godcast @JSDorn @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Where does the Bible say that Divine revelation is limited exclusively to the Bible?
(DIR) Post #A7cUkbi6ZcLK0ssxG4 by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:11:04.571897Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Where does the Bible say I'm obligated to listen to an Argentinian communist?
(DIR) Post #A7cUmVboEJQ7fWqapM by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:11:25.371315Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I was wondering if this thread would summon you.Your arguing that Sola scriptural is a practical and historically necessary doctrine.I’d argue the reformationists had good intentions but they discarded a lot of baby with the bathwater. I wouldn’t even agree with your assessment per se that it was needed, as it seems to me the immediate fallout was mostly political. It surely was a boon to certain German Princes, though I know that was not Luther’s intention
(DIR) Post #A7cUqj0eLfN8O9TcHY by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:12:11.172191Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Umlauts @Godcast @Insomnolant @Orangmawas @Vsolid once we get rid of the Jews we have the insurmountable task of disposing with the bodies, an effort without precedent.
(DIR) Post #A7cUtaALgXIhpUNMTQ by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:12:42.117905Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @Godcast @Insomnolant @Orangmawas @Vsolid I suppose we should get the Germans to invent those legendary ovens.
(DIR) Post #A7cUxSToChTF9LKI7s by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:13:24.171522Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Freelance-Elf @Orangmawas @Insomnolant @JSDorn But you're an elf.
(DIR) Post #A7cV55PDsNqnu5oo9A by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:06:39.640007Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Umlauts @Insomnolant @Godcast @JSDorn @Orangmawas Actually true tbh
(DIR) Post #A7cV55qsDZy7HqktFI by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:14:46.755627Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas >unironically believing this
(DIR) Post #A7cVDjUOjMTKXMMVd2 by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:16:20.608128Z
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@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Wheresoever two or more be gathered in arguments about Jesus, so there shall I be.Depends on what you mean by "necessary." There was going to be a cultural break up in the Catholic Church, just as there had been with the East and West. Sola Scriptura drew a hard line between newly formed protestantism and catholicism. Like any empire, the Catholic Church overplayed their hand and got push back.
(DIR) Post #A7cVIFJ4NPmWNJDPqS by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:16:01.061032Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Umlauts @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas You can convince me other things are a problem when jews are out of the picture, because it’s pretty likely whatever you think is an issue is a byproduct of jews
(DIR) Post #A7cVIFmqahbJrf9CG8 by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:17:09.460577Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas If you think jews are a supernatural evil I'm just going to call you retarded.
(DIR) Post #A7cVPnEed2KLd8kUwC by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:18:31.414620Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @Umlauts @Insomnolant @Orangmawas @Vsolid Nah, it'll be fine. Wyatt says we can just burn them and dump the ashes in a river. Easy peasy.
(DIR) Post #A7cVYEuvaltpnhY8wK by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:18:08.034094Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Umlauts @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas Supernatural no, very much real and material. I must have missed something.
(DIR) Post #A7cVYFQThT8XNYJL7I by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:20:02.908190Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas I'm attempting sarcasm to mock the people who genuinely believe jews are a supernatural force of evil rather than evil and wretched human beings (likely in league with supernatural evil) because they've stared to deeply into the abyss that is the JQ.
(DIR) Post #A7cVcR6yCE1GmLBQo4 by AnonFromPorlock@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:19:58.483718Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Honestly? “Thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. … And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”But if you’re going to talk about Sola Scriptura as being in defense against what you believe to be “traditions of men,” I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect you to try to prove that the doctrine itself is not one such tradition. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7cVi0WlwmeU4GuPQG by adamwright@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:21:48.823703Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I can see the value in certain traditions. I wish the Catholic Church (and maybe they did) had implemented some kind of tier system, where the elements of faith directly based on the Bible were of first importance, and elements based on tradition were of secondary importance.We owe a lot to the Catholic and Orthodox traditions. They fought a lot of heresy, and worked out a lot of issues. Tertullian's Against Marcion, while very early, is really important today, and if it was better known, a lot of modern church problems would be easily disintegrated. How much more like this is out there that we've missed because we're Protestants, or have avoided those writings?
(DIR) Post #A7cVsK99rI2VoMmaTA by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:21:08.691540Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Umlauts @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas If they wanna think that dumb shit fine by me, jews don’t like that either lel.
(DIR) Post #A7cVsKWYSIkqyvjGwC by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:23:40.769830Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @Umlauts If your feet aren't solidly planted in reality, you can't expect to effectively change said reality.
(DIR) Post #A7cVzjHWo0SrnFEFk0 by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:24:25.643604Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @Umlauts Interesting considering this is a hellthread about whether or not Mussolini went to heaven lmao
(DIR) Post #A7cVzjh3H6sh4PAdWa by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:25:01.107000Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @Insomnolant If we're going to be autistic about words, 'reality' includes far more than just the material.
(DIR) Post #A7cVznLZgu4uOx9XbU by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:25:01.878371Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @Umlauts No, that was not the topic.
(DIR) Post #A7cW1S7zYPPjAeaeES by adamwright@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:25:19.765838Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Umlauts @Vsolid @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas there's more than one abyss you can stare into, apparently
(DIR) Post #A7cW9qnRijY3znz62a by RikaDerufu@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:26:50.897634Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @Vsolid @Umlauts what's going on here
(DIR) Post #A7cWFC8pmuKbdzXLpg by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:27:48.833834Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@RikaDerufu @Umlauts @Vsolid There's these things called words which can be used to express ideas between people.
(DIR) Post #A7cWJoXWxw1RtPI728 by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:27:52.333847Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@RikaDerufu @Insomnolant @Umlauts A very gay thread
(DIR) Post #A7cWJyc9Vbf38dWwcq by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:28:40.650554Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @RikaDerufu @Umlauts If you weren't interested in what was being discussed, why barge in? Especially since you had no idea what it was even about.Just makes you look retarded.
(DIR) Post #A7cWKA4ut0Coh24ZUG by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:28:42.629332Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I don’t disagree.If I had a time machine I would try to convince the reformers to instead seek union with the eastern church instead. Would have given them much more clout (than making a new church) would solve issues raised by the investiture crisis and questions over the appointment of bishops, not to mention the issues surrounding papal supremacy.Of course they would have ended up retaining many of the same doctrines as Catholicism (but no indulgences!). Might not have suited some of the reformers, but the reformation was successful because of the political divisions in Christendom, not so much because of religious ones. Any viable alternative was a worthy one to the actors on the ground.Which is why for example, the reformation didn’t take off with the moravians or the hussites
(DIR) Post #A7cWPh0rrZluHnogIS by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:29:04.013420Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @RikaDerufu @Umlauts Because my feed was covered in it my guy, it’s a hellthread
(DIR) Post #A7cWPhRoFPK3dMQCI4 by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:29:42.583261Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @RikaDerufu @Umlauts What? You haven't disabled replies showing up on your feed? You're just making yourself look even more retarded.
(DIR) Post #A7cWS4FURZoSvimvzs by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:30:08.375652Z
4 likes, 4 repeats
@RikaDerufu @Insomnolant @Vsolid Discussing theology
(DIR) Post #A7cWVHH8T4N6CS5Ygq by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:30:32.349411Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @RikaDerufu @Umlauts Didn’t even know it was an option, so I guess I am retarded and now I never have to see gay religion threads ever again
(DIR) Post #A7cWVHjUld3ZcPMCtU by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:30:43.147910Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Vsolid @RikaDerufu @Umlauts That's the ticket!
(DIR) Post #A7cWeABWCSGyoahLvs by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:32:07.681627Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@adamwright @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas @Vsolid All facets of the same abyss that is human depravity and evil if you don't want to be specific about it. But the JQ is a very common entry in these circles into staring too long into it.
(DIR) Post #A7cWpCCv1JoWH0c84u by Orangmawas@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:34:19.153005Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Umlauts @Vsolid @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn i haven't, there are so many other things that could be talked about that isn't jews (economics, organising, political theory etc.). i just find debating religious doctrine online to be kinda a waste. especially when considering that most mainstream christian denominations are all basically heretical at this point and the same people who autistically argue with eachother online are still mostly fine with going to those churches and keeping their criticisms to themselves. it comes off as unserious when looking at the bigger picture. not calling anyone out, this is just generally how i see it.also, as i've posted before, it's fine to have a civil good faith religious discussion and i'll never say anything negative about that. however, when i see "that's why you aren't a christian" all i can think is 'aw shit here we go again'.
(DIR) Post #A7cWxtJGeO9mGmjJJ2 by SneedsterSpeedster@kiwifarms.cc
2021-05-25T21:33:18.481063Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Umlauts @adamwright @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas @Vsolid This might be a bluepilled take, but the real question is the WQ.
(DIR) Post #A7cWxtjV4r8la90GC8 by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:35:53.340244Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@SneedsterSpeedster @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas @Vsolid @adamwright Ah yes the vaginal jew
(DIR) Post #A7cX441RjaTPEQKzCa by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:37:00.417652Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Orangmawas Nah, you have it backwards. When I realize someone isn't a Christian that's when I lose interest in discussing Christianity with them. It's pretty much thread done, at that point.Definitely agree about calling out heresy in real life though. I've rebuked a former pastor for Jew-worshiping Dispensationalist crap, and I recommend everyone do the same if encountered in the wild.
(DIR) Post #A7cX47NBHEdpchWszo by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:37:00.751088Z
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@adamwright @Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I can’t speak to Catholicism but in Orthodoxy we do have “tiers” the issue is, for a protestant, there’s no real grey area when it comes to “authority” I think this is the source of a lot of the tension.For the Orthodox the highest source of authority is the set of four gospels. After that the Epistles, though the gospels and Epistles are understood within the larger context of Tradition. The Church argues that Tradition precedes the written scriptures (the scriptures weren’t put to paper for decades after Christs ascension at the earliest, and weren’t put together in the form we know them today for centuries)After that would be the seven ecumenical councils, the liturgy itself, the writings of saints and records of their lives.The old testament is treated as the word of God and included within this hierarchy somewhere, but has to be interpreted through a Christ focused lens. In other words, we go with the Septuagint as a translation and would never consider any rabbinical perspective coloring it.
(DIR) Post #A7cX7PFRH3f5vlTaFc by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:37:36.404715Z
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@Orangmawas @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vsolid You know a thread on religion is going to become a hellthread when @Godcast takes umbrage with something and throws himself into the ring.
(DIR) Post #A7cXEP6aCgS9VyfdhY by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:38:47.505477Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Umlauts @Orangmawas @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn Boss music starts playing too
(DIR) Post #A7cXGLInJXWUIbJ5Oa by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:39:13.593304Z
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@Umlauts @Orangmawas @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vsolid I think we’re all friends here honestly. I bash on Protestants, but was once one. Their bashings of love.
(DIR) Post #A7cXLHjI1aXKfO3ZB2 by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:40:07.219666Z
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@Insomnolant @Orangmawas >Definitely agree about calling out heresy in real life though.The only time I've ever rebuked heresy in person I had to go full fire and brimstone about it. Because said person (a woman of course) spouted off how Reiki healing is Christian because a priest told her so when the explanation she repeated was outright taking credit from the Holy Spirit when it comes to healing.
(DIR) Post #A7cXUgksLjDIt8HZ5c by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:41:49.032627Z
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@AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Is Peter an Argentinian communist? Catholics get a lot of mileage out of verses that don't really apply to what they're talking about. See literally all of Mariology.Tradition is fine so long as it's useful and grounded firmly in scripture. Condemning Christians to hell because they don't think Mary was bodily assumed into heaven is a tradition that isn't grounded in scripture.
(DIR) Post #A7cXl2M7o1usW0V7I0 by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:44:46.458644Z
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@Umlauts Huh, never heard of Reiki healing before.In my case this pastor was visiting our home and talked about going on a mission trip to Israel, but it turned into giving first aid to Israeli soldiers injured while illegally raiding somewhere over the border in one of the neighboring countries.He was real proud of being involved in basically helping them murder civilians, because Jews could do no wrong. Luckily my parents had had to deal with one of their close friends becoming Judaizers, so I just used all the verses my dad had looked up for that to counter the pro-Jewish nonsense this pastor was spewing. I doubt I got through to him, but I tried.
(DIR) Post #A7cXqZFwuVmU0BFWme by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:45:46.291142Z
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@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt much like the Troubles in Ireland, the dispute was ethnic at root. Italians cannot rule Germans or Englishmen.
(DIR) Post #A7cY1z2zMQ5xB0dAsS by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:47:50.207540Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant New Age and similar faggot spirituality is incredibly common in Sweden. Our secularisation meant we went HARD into that stuff. The amount of fetishisation of """"""""eastern spirituality"""""""""" here is disgusting in the extreme. At least you tried. The Jew idolatry heresy coming along the zionism is some of the saddest stuff to see take root among Christians considering what defines Jews is their rejection of Christ.
(DIR) Post #A7cYE30iS0j2wZJvBQ by LouisConde@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:49:58.629641Z
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@Umlauts @Insomnolant @Orangmawas Reiki is bullshit. They will simultaneously claim it is Christian or Buddhist for credibility, but it’s neither. Jesus didn’t need to make magical hand motions to do miracles.
(DIR) Post #A7cYHcxXFc5dIzXW2y by Umlauts@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:50:39.862575Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@LouisConde @Insomnolant @Orangmawas He didn't need no poorly cut chinese made crystals either.
(DIR) Post #A7cYTpRSfNEJUjM5eS by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:52:50.068242Z
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@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt exactly.The disagreements between Orthodoxy and Catholicism were also very political at the time of the schism, compounded by the crusader sacking of Constantinople in 1204.
(DIR) Post #A7cYV0nzu1dF1lScPg by AnonFromPorlock@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:50:44.206355Z
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@JSDorn @adamwright @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I’m sure this would be true for the Orthodox too, but it’s also worth saying that Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are always in harmony with each other. If something is taught within Sacred Tradition which appears to a man to contradict something in the Bible (any part of the Bible), the problem is the man, or his perception, since there cannot be such a contradiction. If there is something out there (e.g., a newspaper headline about something the Pope said) which contradicts the teaching of the Church (either Scripture or Tradition), it is certainly not among her teachings.
(DIR) Post #A7cYVZQTBUbmOvip6G by Orangmawas@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:53:11.029010Z
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@Insomnolant the guy you replied to wrote "Through Christ and through Christ alone can we find the promise of resurrection from death and eternal life." that is a christian belief. might not be the exact theology and soteriology you adhere to, but anyone that believes that are within a branch of christianity.
(DIR) Post #A7cYpszm8RvQt0vIQK by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:56:51.322427Z
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@Orangmawas It doesn't matter what else he says if he says Jesus' death on the cross was insufficient for our salvation. That's the core of Christianity.
(DIR) Post #A7cYuPaetFnd8UKhmq by Low-IQ@poa.st
2021-05-25T21:51:53.769553Z
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@JSDorn @Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt “If I had a time machine I would try to convince the reformers to instead seek union with the eastern church instead.”They did. Malencthon (if I remember correctly) wrote extensively to try and find common ground with the East. The Reformers explicitly understood themselves as restoring the ancient faith in the west not as innovators in a new way of thinking and in their communications the Lutherans attempted to establish the legitimacy of their theology by demonstrating it consistent with the teachings of the Church fathers. Union between the two failed largely because of irreconcilable differences in Ecclesiology and Sacramentology but other important theological divides also existed. Cyril Lucaris (Patriarch Cyril III of Constantinople) is an interesting figure because he was, unlike the Patriarch who communicated with the Lutherans, not disinterested in finding unity between the Calvinistic Reformed and the Orthodox Church. Some have gone too far and called him the Calvinist Patriarch which I think is an excess but he definitely did not see a necessity for disharmony and sent students to study in Reformed schools to learn more of and from them. His efforts in bridging this divide were blocked from his own side and Orthodox scholarship to this day denies he had any friendship with the Reformed church even going so far as declaring his correspondences forgeries. I’m not convinced by those arguments as I think Cyril genuinely wanted to use the opportunity to heal the east-west divide, even if only a little and found the Reformers extensive use of the Church father’s meaningful if not ultimately convincing.The Protestant tradition has been forced to go it’s own way out of the historic reality that the other two branches of the faith refused to meet them even part-way to keep dialogue open.
(DIR) Post #A7cZ7x3NmmIMgXDzXc by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:00:07.052581Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@AnonFromPorlock @JSDorn @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @adamwright @bebe @hourmutt the issue is the assumption that tradition is always right and always conforms to scripture even when it changes.
(DIR) Post #A7cZ9eZFUHArvlwQHw by Orangmawas@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:00:25.519576Z
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@Insomnolant are you one of those people that consider catholics pagan?
(DIR) Post #A7cZEnQPyyeeqlGNJQ by adamwright@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:01:21.350390Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@SneedsterSpeedster @Umlauts @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas @Vsolid that's where I started
(DIR) Post #A7cZMiFP7IaX6mt0oS by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:02:47.306898Z
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@Orangmawas No, I'm sure there's plenty of Catholics who are saved.
(DIR) Post #A7cZPqIddSRkwztKmu by adamwright@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:03:21.092011Z
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@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt There's a non denom preacher on twitter that twists Orthodox teaching around, using exactly what you're talking about, Brian Zhand
(DIR) Post #A7cZZvKLnWBFRIV1jE by Orangmawas@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:05:10.547625Z
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@Insomnolant but the eastern orthodox are?
(DIR) Post #A7cZehLJDepDVzDyJk by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:06:02.247974Z
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@Orangmawas What? No. Anyone who confesses Jesus is Lord and that he died for our sins is saved.I was specifically responding to one guy saying that Jesus' death was not sufficient for our salvation. What's wrong with your reading comprehension?
(DIR) Post #A7cZiabGELmblFXc8m by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:06:44.074348Z
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@AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @adamwright @bebe @hourmutt very well put. Yes, in Orthodoxy, there is should be no daylight between how we understand Tradition and how we read scripture.Indeed Scripture is the crown jewel of Tradition itself. I think the issue for a protestant trying to understand what we mean by Tradition is that for a protestant, not much is given any weight beyond scripture itself, which is completely inerrant. You end up with a very strict dichotomy. If it’s in scripture it’s true and can’t be false, and anything outside of scripture is very suspect.In Orthodoxy and I suspect Catholicism, (and perhaps in contravention to Myles assertion about mariology) you are not obliged to regard as absolutely true everything contained within tradition to be “saved”In practice, anyone who affirms the Nicene-creed as revised at the Second Ecumenical council and affirms the seven Great Ecumenical Councils and their teachings is intellectually in line with Orthodoxy. Theres a lot that goes with that of course, but that’s how it works and to truly be Orthodox you have to submit to Church authority and participate in the Liturgy and the Sacraments.I think the second part is honestly the harder part for most Protestants.
(DIR) Post #A7cZwJWkVGp6rgyWky by Orangmawas@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:09:12.243644Z
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@Insomnolant because that guy is just trying to explain orthodox soteriology and theology to you.
(DIR) Post #A7ca43KcbOKWx4zcUi by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:10:37.080013Z
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@Orangmawas If all Orthos believe that Jesus' death was insufficient then fine, they aren't Christians. But I highly doubt that's the case.
(DIR) Post #A7caEoqwm1VVEUFLyy by Orangmawas@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:12:33.878854Z
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@Insomnolant catholics also believe that faith in the death and resurrection of christ alone isn't enough for salvation. tradition and works play an imporant role. does that make them non-christians too?
(DIR) Post #A7caNObPk3BgQN4SdE by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:14:06.786668Z
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@Orangmawas If you were correct, yes. I doubt that one too, though. I've had talks with Catholics who insist otherwise.
(DIR) Post #A7cabiA9oV1D8z9EQq by Orangmawas@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:16:42.237910Z
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@Insomnolant sola fide is a protestant/reformed concept that isn't found in eastern orthodoxy and catholicism. simple as.
(DIR) Post #A7cag8ih17RwfRPgIq by Insomnolant@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:17:30.252552Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Orangmawas Well then I'll keep trying to show them the Bible and pray for them.
(DIR) Post #A7capoesSauJLMF6em by Kane@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:19:15.165458Z
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@bebe @Vasta218 What's the source of that?
(DIR) Post #A7cbPNceSMIbuz9xom by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:25:40.553254Z
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@adamwright @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt never heard of him.
(DIR) Post #A7cbZ94vNxOZhs2aNk by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:27:26.634394Z
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@Low-IQ @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt great post. I remembered the thing about Malencthon but couldn’t remember the details.To my understanding the biggest issue between the two was the lack of access to the writings of the Greek Fathers for the reformers.
(DIR) Post #A7ccutoqtp82hpSZnc by Kane@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:42:34.780976Z
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@JSDorn @Insomnolant @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt In the Old Testament, there were things that would make you unclean, and you had to make sacrifices to cleanse yourself, at which point you were good, nothing else is mentioned. Christ took the place of these sacrifices, such that if you believed in his sacrifice and resurrection, the old rituals and sacrifices were replaced, that was the whole point. If you could be made unclean again, then Christ's sacrifice would lose its meaning, because you would immediately just tally up more sins again after being cleansed for the first time, which is hardly salvation. The Holy Spirit enters you so you want to sin less, but even when you fail it does not damage your salvation, unless your faith turns against Christ, at which point there is no saving you.Not an expert by any means, but disbelieving in Sola Scriptura seems to invalidate the whole point of the faith.
(DIR) Post #A7ceU09ZROgERNS7sW by Low-IQ@poa.st
2021-05-25T22:42:16.034930Z
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@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt It’s my understanding that while they didn’t have them in the original Greek they had access to everything that existed in Latin translation at the time, they made extensive use of Ambrose and Chrysostom. Patristic scholorship and it’s used by the Reformers during the reformation is a sorely understudied topic by both Protestants and opponents to Protestantism. It is my firm beliefe that there is not a single “historic” Prostestant doctrine (that is, doctrines taught during the reformation, not modern wackyness) that cannot be found being taught as proper apostolic tradition and teaching by the Church fathers and the Reformers themselves believed this as well. I’ve heard it remarked, for example, that The Reformation was the conflict of whether or not Augustine’s doctrine of salvation would win out over Augustine’s doctrine of the Church and it’s not an unfair caricature. The Jansenists are an interesting case study in this as they were Augustinians who were 100% dedicated to remaining loyal to the Roman church and affirmed it’s ecclesiastical positions but likewise affirmed certain Calvinistic doctrines because they were consistent with Augustine’s writings. Because of this affirmation they were excommunicated and forced into the Protestant camp largely agains their will. But they would not recant and in their minds implicity condemn Augustine as a heretic.This issue is personally one of the main reasons I remain a Protestant. If our side can demonstrate we are consistent with accepted and ancient Christian teaching but still be heretics for it, of what use is holding to ancient and accepted teachings?
(DIR) Post #A7ceU0jjGxbUFWN0Eq by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:00:07.565935Z
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@Low-IQ @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I strongly disagree. There’s a great deal of daylight between the Greek father’s and the reformers, especially in matters of ecclesiology, and soteriology.
(DIR) Post #A7ceioYSqW3IoQ9y88 by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:02:48.370099Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Kane @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt but within Christian tradition, even if you made those expiating sacrifices, you still ended up in gehenna.In the apostles Creed, you affirm that “Christ descended into hell” correct? Why else would he go down to hell but if not to rescue those righteous held in bondage by death?No matter how pure and saintly life you live, you will die. Christ saves from sin and also from death.
(DIR) Post #A7cfklYv2lLk41rooq by hydramacready@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:08:18.113736Z
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@JSDorn @Kane @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Yes
(DIR) Post #A7cg4upmHRy8c0MQ08 by Kane@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:18:00.322022Z
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@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Like the thief on the cross, many things that Christ did were one-time deals. Honestly, this is the first time I've heard that Christ went into hell, though Peter seems to support that, I must have glossed over it in my reading, certainly no pastor of mine has mentioned it.But my point was that being "saved" only to be thrown in purgatory seems to me like a discount salvation, not worthy of the name of Christ. Yes, Christ saves you from sin and death, which is what I'm saying.
(DIR) Post #A7cgGrZQF0AvxrPJsu by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:20:09.728543Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Kane @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I’m not sure if there is a purgatory, but I think it could exist. The official Orthodox position is a shrug.I pointed out the apostles Creed since to my understanding it’s acceptable/used by most mailing Protestants in traditional worship. It’s also called the harrowing of hell. Look it up, there’s a lot of significant theology tied to it.
(DIR) Post #A7cgUr5IqNpiVnzWRk by SaltWraith@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:21:46.583385Z
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@JSDorn @Kane @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt niggas debating the afterlife as if any of them has already been there. Like I don't want to shit on Christpoasters but some of these theology arguments do get really tedious to read even as an observer form the side
(DIR) Post #A7cgUrZR2Lw61G5aPg by Kane@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:22:41.332277Z
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@SaltWraith @JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Feel free to not read them, I learn by engaging with other people on matters of faith and reading other people argue them.
(DIR) Post #A7cgkFyaZyuI3XC94K by Kane@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:25:28.590938Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt As for Gehenna, I was initially confused because I don't think the Old Testament mentions that by name, but makes allusions to the concept, things like "the pit". I'm not sure that the Old Testament is clear about what happens to those who go there. But I'll have to look into the harrowing of hell. Thank you.
(DIR) Post #A7cgsa3NofL8dpPGBE by SaltWraith@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:25:27.230305Z
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@Kane @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Sure but still, I do feel like debating what the structure of the afterlife is like is like arguing over what exactly is inside a black hole and how the mechanics of one works. Like I don't think you're truly supposed to know until you get there and even then you shouldn't be surprised if what you get is nothing like what you expected.
(DIR) Post #A7cgsaUgBBAs0UB3j6 by Kane@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:26:58.759925Z
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@SaltWraith @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt You would argue over the mechanics of a black hole if you were part of a group that had a book that described them and that was important to you.
(DIR) Post #A7chLWhTMZN4dfxbjk by SaltWraith@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:29:59.848878Z
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@Kane @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt You'd still be arguing phenomenon over the contents of the book rather than the actual phenomenon because there is no other source to reference, though.
(DIR) Post #A7chLX6zpfmtuptzWK by Kane@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:32:12.621949Z
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@SaltWraith @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt You don't need to reference any other sources because you know that the contents of the book are objectively true. Ergo discussing the contents of the book IS discussing the phenomenon.
(DIR) Post #A7chqDFbj2oLIKYj0S by SaltWraith@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:33:44.232071Z
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@Kane @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt That's a non-falsifiable claim that I cannot prove or disprove, which is fine. But I also think that what the afterlife is actually like is for God to know and for you to find out.
(DIR) Post #A7chqDl9pk32sBJvBQ by Kane@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:37:45.254851Z
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@SaltWraith @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt It proves itself true by the things described in the book actually happening, e.g., the mechanisms of the Holy Spirit convicting you of sin. I understand that you will find it difficult to believe, as I did too before I was a Christian; however, if you will humble yourself before the divine, and pray for Christ to show you the way, then you will be able to believe.
(DIR) Post #A7ci5bkmuGbPdIU63U by Freelance-Elf@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:40:32.436840Z
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@Umlauts @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas Yes; ez ticket to God's eternal embrace.
(DIR) Post #A7ciEjbp4NjqbOdvf6 by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:42:11.318009Z
4 likes, 2 repeats
@JSDorn @Kane @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @hourmutt I think you are mistaking Gehenna for Sheol, or for Abraham's bosom. Gehenna is the part of hell where evil people went. I believe Sheol simply refers to all of hell, and the part where good people went was Abraham's bosom, or limbo. Here is an image that I have found which may help. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7cijhtbUOnAGXjEwK by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:47:47.311229Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Kane @Vasta218 Yes here it is friend. She has been beatified by the Church, so I do not have any reason to suspect that she was lying. mysticsofthechurch.com/2014/02/edvige-carboni.html
(DIR) Post #A7cj5RCIFr6cqZpga8 by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:51:42.938043Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Kane @Vasta218 St. Padre Pio and Blessed Sister Elena also have mentioned that Mr. Mussolini is in heaven. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7cjznv6xV1tXNfoWm by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:01:53.964075Z
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@SaltWraith @Kane @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt well I’m going off of the word of someone who went there and came back, Hawking never got close to a black hole but had plenty to say about them.
(DIR) Post #A7ck6UzjimJaru1rqy by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:03:06.668500Z
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@Kane @SaltWraith @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt holy shit, I thought the christpoasters were supposed to be the autistic ones
(DIR) Post #A7ckBI0NRaIe1tc4aO by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:03:58.514744Z
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@bebe @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Kane @Vasta218 @hourmutt thank you Bebe, I stand corrected. I was using the term incorrectly.
(DIR) Post #A7ckPTe8xTOaBlyk6a by nugger@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:06:32.461558Z
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@JSDorn @Insomnolant idk prot stuff so here's my straw man of prot thinkingNo garments of skin, man same as in Garden, so no death if no sinJesus suffers for our sins so when u put on Christ no sin impact and live forever?
(DIR) Post #A7ckd2IxPX9jRbXCLI by Low-IQ@poa.st
2021-05-25T23:58:59.597915Z
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@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt “For as men, upon receiving some great good, ask themselves if it is not a dream, as not believing it; so it is with respect to the gifts of God. What then was it that was thought incredible? That those who were enemies, and sinners, neither justified by the law, nor by works, should immediately through faith alone be advanced to the highest favor. Upon this head accordingly Paul has discoursed at length in his Epistle to the Romans, and here again at length. This is a faithful saying, he says, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.”That’s from Chrysostom’s 4th Homily on 1 Timothy. That’s justification by faith alone nearly verbatim to how the Reformers articulated it. He even directs the reader to Romans for a discourse on the subject which is one of the primary sources the Reformers drew from to substantiate their position from scripture. I am very confident that “Protestant” soteriology is consistent with that of the Church fathers. Ecclesiology is very different though, I will grant you that. The development of monarchical episcopate’s happened very early in Church history and was taken as the norm essentially immediately once it had developed. I fall into the camp that believe this development was contrary to the example of what we see in the New Testament of how the Apostolic church is shown to function and was taught to function but it’s not actually a development I would condemn. It’s proven to work and so long as Bishops do not claim undue authority over one another (as the Papacy went on to do, even the Orthodox recognize this) or over believers who resist their government then they can and have been a benefit to the Church. Lutheran and Anglican bishoprics do not bother me just because I have a more congregational ecclesiology (or Presbyterian if I’m feeling particularly high-church)
(DIR) Post #A7ckd2kxjPYcqSdYzg by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:08:59.244401Z
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@Low-IQ @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt many of the church fathers were monastics. Saint John Chrysostom understood soteriology not just within the contest of Romans or Timothy, but within the larger contest of church tradition.Otherwise how would he or the father’s have abided monasticism at all? On the face of it your argument makes no sense to me.I would agree with you though that the Orthodox style of patriarchal/bishopric authority instead of a more “monarchical” authority as represented by Rome is more in concert with what we see in the new testament.But your still thinking like a protestant if your ultimate reference is your own preference.
(DIR) Post #A7ckt3BrsyVapAr3ei by AnonFromPorlock@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:03:37.265787Z
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@Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt With regard to the Pope, I will just say that I consider him to be, among other things, a spiritual father. Who is in complete and total perfect agreement with his father on all matters, including all theological or political ones? Yet would you reject him, insist on disobeying him, and say that he’s not your father? No, and so I respect and love Pope Francis as a father.Now, back to the main point, you kind of ignore the original question and have raised other issues. I happen to believe that the Bible does in fact support Apostolic Succession and the primacy of Saint Peter among Bishops, as well as everything the Church has ever taught about our Blessed Lady. (But of course, I wouldn’t have left Protestantism to become a Catholic if I had believed Protestantism to be true and Catholicism to be false.)It seems like if there were a real and clear Biblical foundation for sola Scriptura, it wouldn’t be hard to provide Scriptural proof for it, as indeed would be necessary if the doctrine were to be logically self-consistent. But, in reality, there’s no such proof, even by squinting and looking sideways at a single out of context verse, there’s nothing in the Bible that makes a claim that Divine revelation is exclusive to the Bible. (Divine revelation did, however, cease with the Apostles, whose teachings are perfectly maintained and passed on by the Holy Spirit in what is known as Sacred Tradition.) Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7ckt3t7IB6SzJ5b4C by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:11:52.947905Z
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@AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Prooftexting Sola Scriptura had been done to death ( gotquestions.org/sola-scriptura.html) but ultimately we can ask "who has the most authority to relay the message of God's plan of salvation?" The answer is the Prophets and Apostles and the people who wrote on their behalf. My objection to Catholicism is the notion that non-catholics cannot be assured of their salvation. A notion that the Catholic Church has quite rightly backed away from.
(DIR) Post #A7clOLf1GQXb5NPjQu by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:17:32.602998Z
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@nugger @Insomnolant I’m not sure I follow, but to add a bit more detail to what I was talking about before in regards to Orthodox thinking about sin and death:The Orthodox have no doctrine like the “Immaculate Conception” Which the Catholics use to explain how Mary could be without sin, yet still be born into a human nature. The Orthodox don’t have to solve that problem because they don’t understand human nature to be corrupted by original sin in the same way. To the Orthodox, we are born with a sinful fallen nature which leads to death, but that doesn’t mean we are born with sin already credited to our ledger.The Orthodox maintain that the Virgin Mary, Mother of God (usually rendered as Theotokos, or God-bearer) did not knowingly commit any sins while she was alive. Yet she was still in need of a savior, and even says so in her magnificat (Luke 1:46 My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior) Despite being free from sinful acts, her fallen nature dooms her to death. She still needs Christ as her savior regardless.And here is where he nuances in soteriology are highlighted. For the Orthodox, the triumph of Christ over death is what saves not just Mary, but all of us, not just from our sins, but from death itself. We have eternal life with Christ through his resurrection. It’s not just about your sins, its about your nature and indeed, about all al existence being remade and redeemed through Christ.
(DIR) Post #A7clVqEryOuzwvkujQ by philmchawk@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:13:47.280843Z
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@AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt We built cope city on kissing negro feet.
(DIR) Post #A7clrudeIPa5xvs1HU by AnonFromPorlock@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:15:16.627912Z
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@JSDorn @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @adamwright @bebe @hourmutt wrt obligatory doctrines: Yes, that’s right that some things are not binding on all Christians (e.g., so-called private revelations, such as the visions of Saint Faustina or the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe, might be given approval by the Church, but are not mandatory for Catholics to believe). I think he’s specifically referring to the Assumption being a clearly defined dogma which, as such, is indeed necessary for Catholics to accept as Divinely-revealed truth.Even so, that doesn’t mean that a well-meaning Protestant who denies this dogma is 100% absolutely going to hell, since the exceptions to “extra Ecclesiam nulla salus” can be pretty broad, despite it sounding so absolute.
(DIR) Post #A7clrwsFz4SEtoiiKO by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:22:52.543235Z
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@AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @adamwright @bebe @hourmutt Yes, I did not highlight his example because I can’t speak for Catholics on that matter. Your distinction though is exactly what I was talking about.Similarly to how Catholics treat the Assumption, in Orthodoxy, you can’t really make it through confession with a clean heart if you are rejecting the doctrines and teachings of the church. That is something to work out when you are still a catechumen.
(DIR) Post #A7cmMFbYuMZLgAMPg0 by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:28:21.803718Z
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@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @hourmutt Friend, you must remember that Jesus Himself chose Judas to be one of His apostles. He told us then that there would always be evil people within the Church. We have had antipopes in the past, and may have more in the future. Whatever you think of Pope Francis, he has not taught anything infallibly, and when anyone, even a cardinal or pope, says something that goes against prior dogmas, we may safely reject such statements. More recently, in Akita, Japan in the 1970s, the Virgin Mary has warned us that there would be evil people within the Church, even up to the high places. So do not abandon the Church, as this is all part of God's plan. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #A7cmg7E5ljpPU8r48e by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:31:57.216557Z
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@bebe @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @hourmutt I didn't abandon the Church, I reject Catholicism on doctrinal grounds
(DIR) Post #A7cmj2wg8q2Z4q6jGS by Low-IQ@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:24:00.088453Z
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@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt “Otherwise how would he or the father’s have abided monasticism at all? On the face of it your argument makes no sense to me.”And your rebuttal makes no sense to me. What does being a monastic have to do with Chrysostom explicitly writing “That those who were enemies, and sinners, neither justified by the law, nor by works, should immediately through faith alone be advanced to the highest favor.”That’s his exposition and interpretation of the salvation of sinners in Christ. How would that belief in any way conflict with monasticism? A life of austerity lived without sin is a Godly way to live. Just because a way of life doesn’t save you from sin doesn’t mean it isn’t a good way of life. I don’t know if I’m missing your point here or something, I just don’t seen any conflict, I don’t think they are even intersecting subjects.“but your still thinking like a protestant if your ultimate reference is your own preference.”I believe very strongly in the principle of “unity in the essentials, liberty in non-essentials”. I don’t have any delusion that I am a perfect theologian or believe rightly on every point of doctrine. I think it is wise and prudent to know where to draw lines in the sand to demand conformance and obedience and where to let people do according to their conscience and allow God to be the judge of their hearts. Roman Catholicism in theory makes this same distinction in the way they divide Dogma from Doctrine. In practice they require unity on all points defined as Dogma but their formal theology allows for informed doctrinal dissent on non-dogmatic matters.
(DIR) Post #A7cmj3MCbwSOM03732 by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:32:29.184869Z
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@Low-IQ @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt We may well be ships passing in the night. I have often found that while Protestants and Catholics have well-worn patterns of discussion, Orthodoxy sees things just so differently than both, that finding agreement can be as hard as finding disagreement.The best example for this is the whole Works/versus faith dichotomy that I usually find myself in when discussing anything religious with prods.Usually, the “works” argument they tilt at is just a straw man built from judaic reeds. Ultimately all three main branches of Christianity agree that faith is the key to salvation. But I found as a protestant and in my discussions with friend and foe alike since, that the emphasis in protestant soteriology is always on the moment of conversion. That we are all won to Christ in an instant, like the thief on the cross.In reality, the Thief died soon after his conversion, and is indeed granted his reward in paradise.But his example is only one of many throughout church history, and for Catholics and Orthodox alike, the lives of the saints are filled with lives of faithful daily working out their salvation in fear and trembling, through fasting and prayer, through almsgiving and acts of courage.The protestant seems to hold their nose up at all of this, more fearful that such acts of devotion to the Lord might get in the way of the Lord himself. I am not sure what it stems from.
(DIR) Post #A7cngkOIFwCOuEUXdQ by Robert_Edwardly@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:43:16.110128Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @Low-IQ @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt the reformed position is that justification is instantaneous, sanctification is a process, and glorification is eventual, but that sanctification is the grounds of assurance for the other two.This can be distinguished from, say, once saved always saved protestantism which collapses soteriology into a momentary intellectual assent to basic propositions about Christ, and in the name of not causing hurt feelings (in apostates), sacrifices the fruit of repentance in the lives of converts.I like a lot of what the orthodox have to say about faith and works, grace and law, but I feel that many of their big name thinkers have done little (if any!) Study of why protestantism places the emphasis it does on justification, and it results in, if not flame wars, at very least a great deal of talking past each other. Especially when protestantism is not a soteriological monolith (to say the least).
(DIR) Post #A7co4jWX8DL7AOmcQS by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:47:36.715313Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @hourmutt Which doctrinal grounds are those friend?
(DIR) Post #A7coJYrD4UvsQeWbk8 by Vsolid@poa.st
2021-05-25T20:59:47.909109Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Insomnolant @JSDorn @Orangmawas Well we won’t know until that happens, and I see absolutely no reason to not try that first
(DIR) Post #A7cosmxQdfbMIOEPeS by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:56:39.513556Z
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@Robert_Edwardly @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt In my discussions with protestant friends, the word “justification” is always one which carries more weight for the protestant than for me, for whatever reason. I think again because of the whole works/versus faith dichotomy.If we both agree one is justified through faith, the question I would then tender is “what next?” For the Orthodox, much like the Catholic, the choice one makes to allow Christ into your heart is not enough by itself, and if the faith is to grow and take root, requires participation in the Church and the sacraments of the church (including chrismation and confession).I guess then for the Orthodox, justification is not the central question when discussing soteriology. In the US I know most of the big english speaking Orthodox thinkers are former protestant’s, so I’d hope there would be someone out there better than me to answer this more authoritatively.
(DIR) Post #A7cotUXkaVCnTUYWjg by Based_Ohio@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:47:05.412035Z
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@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt "My objection to Catholicism is the notion that non-catholics cannot be assured of their salvation. A notion that the Catholic Church has quite rightly backed away from." Catholics can go and are in hell unfortunately. So being Catholic is no guarantee either really. Its more being in a state of grace and the sacraments. Protestantism doesn't have the Eucharist which is extremely important as well as confession.
(DIR) Post #A7cpK4EEX8o3gC6D7A by Low-IQ@poa.st
2021-05-26T00:59:46.376923Z
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@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt “ I have often found that while Protestants and Catholics have well-worn patterns of discussion, Orthodoxy sees things just so differently than both, that finding agreement can be as hard as finding disagreement.”If we can only agree on one thing this will be it. From my perspective reading Orthodox literature can be difficult because of that communication barrier. The west is very forensic and formal in how it communicates theology where as the east is much more experiential and mystical. It’s a 2,000 year old cultural divide that is not easily resolved. Whatever saint is able to unite these perspective will be rightly remembered as the greatest Christian to walk the earth.“the emphasis in protestant soteriology is always on the moment of conversion. That we are all won to Christ in an instant, like the thief on the cross.”I can understand why you would come to that conclusion. I don’t even doubt that there have been protestants who have explained it exactly like this. My side has for the last several generations completely failed to educate our lay people in what we believe and why we believe it at anything deeper than surface level. Our focus in soteriology is concerned primarily with the issue of “justification”. That is, being sinners deserving of Hell, how are we brought into a restored relationship with God. How are our crimes paid for and God’s wrath satisfied so we can stand before him as righteous.This is why we so strongly recoil from any talk of the involvement of works in our salvation because we have this core recognition that our works, no matter how great or good, can absolve us of our sin. It is only Christ’s work on our behalf that can make true and complete payment for us and being united to Christ by faith and not the law it is thus this faith separate from any deed or well-lived life that is the vehicle for our salvation in Christ. It isn’t about our moment of conversion it’s about what is occurring at the eternal level between Christ and the Father to make the transaction that justifies us before God so we can be counted as righteous.The life well lived in Christ, the working out of a persons salvation by their works is what is occurring here on earth in time and is the symptom or effect of that previously mentioned divine transaction. The orthodox perspective sees it as a single flowering (for a lack of a better word) where the salvation and the Christian life are one and the same while the Protestant view is more like Christ’s work is a wind over the sea pushing the sail the ship of Christian living - the wind blows and then the ship moves and we have no oars to move it on our own. I’m sure somebody could pick holes apart in my metaphors but I think they are generally accurate.“The protestant seems to hold their nose up at all of this, more fearful that such acts of devotion to the Lord might get in the way of the Lord himself. I am not sure what it stems from.”It stems from a desire to not claim for ourselves any part of God’s work or glory. I guess you could think of it as a desire for radical humility. It doesn’t always play out like that but that’s the sentiment.
(DIR) Post #A7cpLDX9QH7qpQUoxU by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:01:47.762510Z
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@bebe @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @hourmutt A lot of its Mariology. I also don't believe in purgatory or the Catholic conception of original sin.
(DIR) Post #A7cpbRjgO4thVc629w by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:04:43.731345Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Based_Ohio @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt of course, any confession Christian can renounce their faith and abandon God. I think the biblical support for transubstantiation is rather flimsy, but we do confess our sins to God and one another
(DIR) Post #A7cpve10RUffNtpXyy by nugger@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:08:22.741252Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @Based_Ohio @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt im grugJesus says take eat this is my body which was broken for you for the forgiveness of sinsHe also says drink of it all of you this is my blood of the new covenant shed for many for the forgiveness of sinsso i think its real Body and Bloodi think the Holy Spirit makes the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ during the epiclesis or whatever its called when everyone kneels and the priest says send down Your Holy Spirit upon us and upon these gifts here presented
(DIR) Post #A7cqJKVEdn6xolGPuS by Based_Ohio@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:10:38.103985Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I JUST NOTICED IT SAYS BREATHE LMFAO
(DIR) Post #A7cqOGSf5usAjOPgNk by Based_Ohio@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:09:49.204114Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt thats not entirely what Im saying. I should have worded it differently though. So when you commit mortal sin you reject The Holy Spirit and basically kick it out of you. If you are Catholic and do this you are out of a state of grace and need to go to confession. This is my understanding of it but Im just out of the neophyte stage so I could be leaving something out or something. I have a friend whos a theology and philosophy major and she can explain this stuff way better.
(DIR) Post #A7cqOH60jcLehQp6iO by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:13:32.920173Z
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@Based_Ohio @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt that's correct from my understanding. I don't buy into that doctrine
(DIR) Post #A7cqUJdyAvjiL3aVZQ by Robert_Edwardly@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:14:38.750946Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt A lot of orthodox thinkers place too great a weight on NY Wright and the New Perspective on Paul, imo.For me, there are basic questions that need to be answered. Like "when God works all things for the good of those that love Him, what does that mean' and "when Paul says that having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord, is that real peace we actually possess, or is it a momentary truce"In the second case, Paul's other claims, the passages context, and the semantic range of the word for peace in Romans 5 leave little doubt that Christ has accomplished actual peace with God through Christ Jesus, a fact the author of Hebrews agrees with.Confessing our sins, growing in holiness, taking the Eucharist, and repenting and turning from lawlessness are absolutely what is next after justification, but they are the fruit of it, they can never be made the grounds of it.
(DIR) Post #A7cqY9kEvAAQnQLsO0 by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:15:20.355537Z
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@nugger @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt That's the Catholic doctrine in a nutshell. I don't believe that particular doctrine. There are plenty of instances of Jesus speaking metaphorically or hyperbolically, and I think this is one of them
(DIR) Post #A7cqbit4ibY6epBYLA by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:15:58.881424Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Low-IQ @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Your points are well made and well taken. I definitely think we are closer than far apart.I think humility is a really crucial element. I don’t accuse the protestant of their “works” aversion out of pride, but I do think this is something where the Tradition of Orthodoxy would be a better guide than anything I encountered in protestantism.Orthodoxy has long developed ascetical practices (even for laypeople) meant to embolden us in our virtues and weaken our passions. I found nothing helped humble me than trying to maintain a daily prayer rule. Just praying in the morning, at night and trying to fit in 100 Jesus Prayers somewhere during the day showed me how little thought i normally give to God in my day. Fasting too taught me how little self control I really have. There is of course even more the deeper you go (the monastics live an ascetical life 24/7) All of this might seem like “works” but all of it is meant instead to humble us. It works quite well in my opinion.All I ever found in Protestantism was whatever new book by whoever was hot was pushing. It might be good advice but it was not a grounded tradition and would pass out of phase with the next big book. I can’t tell you how many books I read that I can’t even remember anything about now (C.S. Lewis excepted). It also personally left me with a great hunger for something more authentic and traditional.
(DIR) Post #A7cqfTkcw8Egs61b1M by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:16:39.757552Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Robert_Edwardly @JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt get an anime avatar, you're ruining the juxtaposition between theology and weebery
(DIR) Post #A7cqtaSSnScHj9Fwgq by Robert_Edwardly@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:19:12.773682Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I didn't start watching anime til last month, I'm not catholic, and I've been a theology sperg for thirteen years.
(DIR) Post #A7cr3MRhkU5HAHYtdo by nugger@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:20:58.729229Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt i dont get itwhat is it a metaphor for?
(DIR) Post #A7cr6YBwXD7mSji6Yy by Turdicus@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:20:37.841320Z
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@Robert_Edwardly @Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt “I don’t watch anime” and “i’m not catholic” shouldn’t be this close together as phrases and be this unreasonable funny.
(DIR) Post #A7cr6YdasPF5qUeBf6 by Robert_Edwardly@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:21:33.226740Z
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@Turdicus @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt yeah fucked around and got myself kicked out of the alt right today. Gonna go be a neolib now.
(DIR) Post #A7crF5MX5euxeljX0q by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:23:05.881664Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Robert_Edwardly @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt That all sounds pretty much in line with Orthodoxy to me.It’s quite possible that American Orthodox converts from Protestantism are trying too eagerly to reject their protestant priors. I have seen that before (where it gets personal and emotional).I only want to emphasis that from an Orthodox perspective, you will not be saved without the sacraments of the church. I would agree though that if you take the eucharist under false pretense or without faith it will do you actual harm and will not grant you salvation.So yes, the sacraments need faith. You have to be worthy as well to take the eucharist, which beyond faith also means having confessed recently and abstained from sin since. Faith is just the starting point, but everything else flows from it.
(DIR) Post #A7crNwah4XS33fa5o0 by Robert_Edwardly@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:24:41.935668Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Are sacraments not administered by a ordained priest of eastern orthodoxy sacraments of the church of Jesus Christ, damnable sacrilege, or something in between, somehow?
(DIR) Post #A7crRTxzRFDDRLAI1Q by Turdicus@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:22:26.855648Z
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@Robert_Edwardly @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt which anime were you watching before you got excommunicated from the church of anime avatars
(DIR) Post #A7crRUPzl7c6qCGefo by Robert_Edwardly@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:25:20.234278Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Turdicus @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I started Tokyo ghoul a while ago. Also Myles said I would like Girls Und Panzer.
(DIR) Post #A7crUrVuLbWlL3dpPE by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:25:56.909675Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@nugger @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt the importance of remembering Christ's sacrifice. Keep in mind that virtually every godly celebration in the Bible is a feast. Revelation describes a feast where God prepares a meal of Leviathan
(DIR) Post #A7crerfacbfIicwJZg by Vasta218@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:27:45.407820Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Robert_Edwardly @Turdicus @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Low-IQ @bebe @hourmutt Maybe you will like Lelouch of the Rebellion, Saga of Tanya the Evil, and Legend of Galactic Heroes. Tokyo Ghoul is shit past season one
(DIR) Post #A7crg8TbcW1H8KwMMa by LouisConde@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:27:59.171431Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @nugger @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Is Leviathan white meat? Or would it be classified as fish? I expect a segment on the Godcast about this serious issue.
(DIR) Post #A7crgFkAbKQdfjkBea by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:28:00.435839Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Robert_Edwardly @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt You have a lot of catching up to do, grasshopper. Lemme know when you stop watching baby shows like Hellsing and Berserk, and start watching manly shows like Violet Evergarden and Princess Tutu
(DIR) Post #A7crjJHhtOYVWTt8fQ by Robert_Edwardly@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:28:33.628255Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Vasta218 @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Low-IQ @Turdicus @bebe @hourmutt I will always take recommendations
(DIR) Post #A7crnLzzk6Wl6EX2PI by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:29:17.467120Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Robert_Edwardly @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt It depends on the sacrament.If you were baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, your baptism is valid, regardless of what denomination did it.Marriage is iffy, I’ve heard answers each way. I’m pretty sure that the correct answer is “Yes, it must be performed by an orthodox priest” but nobody wants to hurt my feelings as me and my wife were not thusly married.As for confession and the Eucharist, those sacraments are not valid when performed by other churches. While protestant communion is not really equivalent in any real sense (especially with baptists, where everything is symbolic) an Orthodox in good standing should not partake in it. Likewise, confession with a catholic priest will not count as proper preparation for the Orthodox Eucharist.Whether it is damnable sacrilege? I don’t know. I’ve never heard anyone in my Orthodox circles get mad about it.
(DIR) Post #A7crnz76JcNuPZ9lOi by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:29:24.249114Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@LouisConde @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt @nugger I'll add that to the list, though if Leviathan is an aquatic dinosaur, I imagine it'd taste like chicken.
(DIR) Post #A7crp14qV4bmn6arlg by Robert_Edwardly@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:29:35.537691Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt it's going to take me months to finish or give up on Tokyo ghoul and attack on titan so I don't know that the catching up is going to be rapid.
(DIR) Post #A7crq7jzD7vBkOMgKm by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:29:47.524493Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Robert_Edwardly @Turdicus @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I havn’t watched girls und panzer but yes you would.
(DIR) Post #A7crrn2f8h3s88tYFE by LouisConde@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:30:05.538340Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt @nugger Fucking based, the most delicious tendies you could ever imagine.
(DIR) Post #A7cruLqmh32EfLYoIy by hydramacready@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:29:00.101985Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@Insomnolant @hourmutt @AnonFromPorlock @Vasta218 @bebe bible verses in greentext, all is right in the world, we no longer stray from God's light but seek it with the appetite of a starving man
(DIR) Post #A7cryzg6YZcJLcmLdw by D00B@kiwifarms.cc
2021-05-26T01:31:23.894480Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Eris @nugger @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt the right one
(DIR) Post #A7cs9anxNLH9OEVOb2 by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:33:18.625949Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Eris @nugger @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt A very good illustration.While Orthodoxy does not formally believe in a doctrine like transubstantiation it does affirm that the eucharist becomes the Body and Blood of Christ (How? We don’t know, its not been revealed to us)Christ incarnating his body into the bread and wine is completely akin to God the Son incarnating his divine nature into a human body.The bread and wine remain bread and wine while also becoming His Body and Blood. In the same way the Christ was completely human and completely divine.
(DIR) Post #A7csAJAqPbjAzxYINc by Based_Ohio@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:31:43.886397Z
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@Godcast @nugger @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt what are your thoughts Eucharistic miracles🤔 thats a big part of why I take that as a literal thing.
(DIR) Post #A7csAJm4BDVArOy1Oi by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:33:26.297676Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Based_Ohio @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt @nugger I think they're valid. My opinion on a lot of Catholic- and Ortho-specific miracles is that God meets us where we are and performs the miracles most likely to resonate with believers in a certain context.
(DIR) Post #A7csLi9BtzUZdZDSSW by Low-IQ@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:33:39.538327Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @Robert_Edwardly @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Bruh if you aren’t recommending him Nurse Angel Ririka SOS you are a confirmed homosexual.
(DIR) Post #A7csLidg4dsXA7Tnyi by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:35:29.889652Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Low-IQ @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Robert_Edwardly @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Maho Shoujo is a surprisingly deep genre. Precure was a solid show when it wasn't a blatant toy commercial.
(DIR) Post #A7csN5ILKEJniZ9T1c by D00B@kiwifarms.cc
2021-05-26T01:35:45.067905Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Eris @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt @nugger hard right
(DIR) Post #A7csbc8E2GaFc6LbqS by D00B@kiwifarms.cc
2021-05-26T01:38:22.607294Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Eris @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt @nugger That's ok
(DIR) Post #A7csgM9or4Y3WBM29A by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:39:13.879781Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Eris @D00B @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt @nugger Ying Yangs are gay
(DIR) Post #A7ct0veObNabOESxJw by Robert_Edwardly@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:42:56.995244Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt I guess my point is, while I don't have problems with Eos, in fact, I like em, if you cant be saved without communion, and the lord's supper in protestant churches isn't communion, then we have big, ecumenical dialogue shattering problems
(DIR) Post #A7ct2xXKYonxoo85nk by nugger@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:43:18.963873Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @Eris @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt yeah i dont get it so im just gonna keep goin gto church
(DIR) Post #A7ctK2cwt3XQWtu25I by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:46:24.183805Z
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@Robert_Edwardly @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Well yes, fundamentally, the role of the Eucharist is one of the biggest divides between EO and Protestantism.Ultimately, the Eucharist IS participation in the very nature of Christ. Its a brief step into heaven, and a microcosm of life’s ultimate purpose. After all, we don’t want to go to heaven just because it’s the place where good people go, we want to be with God, to be with Christ forever. The Eucharist is how we do that in this life. We are made of matter and participate though matter made divine.
(DIR) Post #A7ctYyuKzxf1Kz9zkW by JSDorn@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:49:06.244520Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@nugger @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Eris @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt Love all you guys. Im gonna play some vidya. Pray for me. God Bless.
(DIR) Post #A7ctdQGVE3n5LMe4ye by nugger@poa.st
2021-05-26T01:49:54.387259Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Eris @Godcast @Insomnolant @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt GOD BLESS U BROTHER I PRAY FOR U
(DIR) Post #A7cviNgqQYLoiHSVWK by bebe@poa.st
2021-05-26T02:13:12.681097Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Eris @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @hourmutt Yes thank you friend. I am streaming the runescape here if you wish to join. Thank you friend.tv.poa.st/videos/watch/5f98ecfe-0e31-4173-9e83-7309ec0b1686
(DIR) Post #A7cvqAvPlrznRKzSmu by SuperMailFatality@poa.st
2021-05-26T02:14:37.177606Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @nugger @AnonFromPorlock @Based_Ohio @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt call that Endless Shrimp
(DIR) Post #A7cwTGldz0Tiqz3t5s by Turdicus@poa.st
2021-05-26T02:21:33.628195Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Robert_Edwardly @Vasta218 @AnonFromPorlock @Godcast @Insomnolant @JSDorn @Low-IQ @bebe @hourmutt I’ve been meaning to watch demon slayer still
(DIR) Post #A7cyvDNcN43MMdHE6i by AnonFromPorlock@poa.st
2021-05-26T02:48:42.755724Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@JSDorn @Robert_Edwardly @Godcast @Insomnolant @Low-IQ @Vasta218 @bebe @hourmutt fwiw, I’m pretty sure the Catholic view for marriage is that any valid marriage is a sacrament if both parties are baptized, and, since it’s a sacrament that doesn’t technically require a Priest because it’s “given” to you by your spouse-to-be (and vice versa), just the mutual marriage vow by both people is sufficient for a real marriage to take place.
(DIR) Post #A7d3ocWD0X5m4cyCcS by nugger@poa.st
2021-05-26T03:43:58.875719Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe @JSDorn @AnonFromPorlock @Insomnolant @Kane @Vasta218 @hourmutt gehenna is the lake of fire it doesnt exist yet thats when heaven and earth are remadeiirc hades its basically a big cave with three partsgrotto for the faithful where they have a stream of watergrotto for the unfaithful where the rich dude who was mean to lazarus was yelling for lazarus in the other grotto and they were like im sorry theres a rive rbetween usand then there's the pit/abyss where nephilim and other shady stuff isits like the refuse pit of the world and its infinitely deep like the Mountain of God is infinitely talland then there was hells castle a big ole palace with gates made of brass bc its imitation bronze its a showoff and devil and statan lived in thereand when John the Baptist came down he preached to everyone about Jesus and how he's gonna break them out and a bunch of people even from the second unrighteous place for pagans were like oooooh that makes sense (socrates and the like)and then Jesus come in and psalm 3:7 fed them their teeth and broke down the gates and led everyone of them who beleive d into paradise where theres already some people like enoch and elijah and babies who were killed etcand when heaven and earth are remade a river of fire will go out from God and it will fill the abyss and that will be gehenna the lake of fire and satan and his angels will be thrown in there and then the sinners wont be able to stand the love of God and will also run in like the pigs posessed by demons
(DIR) Post #A7d6WhxULJtBaysdRA by AnonFromPorlock@poa.st
2021-05-26T04:02:12.090799Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast The “done to death” Biblical support for Scripture-alone in that article cites six verses (and a Luther quote).“All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16–17)The verse says “all scripture” not “only scripture,” and it’s important to note that this letter to Saint Timothy (along with other New Testament epistles) probably wasn’t being included in the group of “scripture” by its inspired author. (Another related issue Protestantism faces but ignores is the canon of Scripture, since the Bible itself doesn’t say what specific books or which sections of books – e.g., the deuterocanonical parts of the Book of Daniel – belong to it. Whether you use the OT of the Alexandrian or Palestinian Jews, whether you use the Catholic canon or Luther’s choice, you’re following something that was imposed on the Bible from outside of it, and I’d much rather follow the canon set forth by the Church I believe to be given the authority by Christ to do so.)“Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so” (Acts 17:11)More confirmation of the truth of the written Word, but there’s not a good reason to view this as saying that Scripture is exclusive (and, again, the entire New Testament was added to these Scriptures after this time).“I have applied all this to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brethren, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another” (1 Corinthians 4:6)This one could actually be pretty good, but is unconvincing (when it comes down to it, the authority of the Church in interpreting the Bible will always be more convincing to me than that of Pastor Jim). This article refutes the idea of the verse supporting sola Scriptura (and mentions how, instead of using it to argue for the doctrine, Calvin said it was meant “either as referring to Paul’s writings, or to the proofs from Scripture which he has brought forward,” but waved it away as “a matter of small moment” regardless).“And he said to them, ‘Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, “This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.” You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men’” (Mark 7:6–8)(For the record, I’m not accusing you or all Prots of being liars or worshipping God in vain or whatever.) Yes, the man-made doctrine of Bible-alone is bad. (I won’t include the other two verses the article uses, because they’re more or less just used to support the notion of Biblical living in general, even though it views them from a mistaken perspective.) At any rate, the article also basically says the Bible doesn’t need to support the doctrine on the grounds that: “Sola scriptura is not as much of an argument against tradition as it is an argument against unbiblical, extra-biblical and/or anti-biblical doctrines.” This coming immediately after it says “while the Bible itself may not explicitly argue for sola scriptura….” :thinking: (if it’s really not in the Bible, which it clearly isn’t, it would seem to fit the definition of extra-Biblical)On the other hand, Saint Paul does explicitly support Apostolic Tradition, the oral teachings of the Apostles: “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thessalonians 2:15). We agree that the Apostles had the authority and were inspired to carry Divine revelation, but I think the difference is Protestantism would unreasonably place limits on the way that revelation is taught/recorded. Every Apostle had something to teach, but not every Apostle was called to write a book of the Bible.In the second place, if you’re talking about extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, the Church maintains it (as she maintains, by the power and working of the Holy Spirit, all truths entrusted to her), pic related. And, given that the Church’s position is that she is the one, true Church founded by Christ for the salvation of all men, the exclusivity would seem to make sense. Like, from the Catholic perspective, there aren’t supposed to be different brands of Christians, there’s supposed to be the Catholic Church and that’s it.Thank you friend. :smiling_ai:
(DIR) Post #A7d6WiOQj9RKwXU9Qm by adamwright@poa.st
2021-05-26T04:14:21.407591Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@AnonFromPorlock @Godcast this alone would make me choose Orthodox over Catholic if forced
(DIR) Post #A7d707hxgZG3r1dzTE by Godcast@poa.st
2021-05-26T04:19:40.543734Z
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@AnonFromPorlock Paul was aware his letters had spiritual authority. Protestantism doesn't "ignore" the issue of canon. As already mentioned, it comes down to writings of prophets and apostles. As you previously mentioned, you're going to go with the Catholic Church's interpretation of any given verse over the alternative, so you're going to take any passage used in support of Sola Scriptura as not actually supporting Sola Scriptura, making that point of debate irrelevant.The Catholic Church had a very flimsy claim to "being the one, true Church founded by Christ." If anything, the Orthodox have a more valid claim on that title. But that assumes apostolic succession is strictly necessary for a church to bear good fruit, which it very clearly is not.
(DIR) Post #A7dYSQZ1s2utCoBe5Y by AMaleKateMossFan@cawfee.club
2021-05-26T04:40:56.310751Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Vasta218 disagreed if he meant public officials. Agreed if he meant citizends and the voters and the general population.