Post A7SCOouO0P9fsPBGMq by starbreaker@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by starbreaker@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #A7S8yUtVUmdKPbWgNM by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T21:19:55Z
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Thinking about an alternate history where Microsoft never released Internet Explorer. How different would the modern software landscape look, especially the Web? Without the pressure from Microsoft, how would JavaScript have evolved? Would it be in any way similar now? Who else might have competed with Netscape? Would the W3C still have attempted, or maybe even succeeded in, their efforts to XML-ify everything? Would JSON or XML even exist? How would this all affect the rest of the industry?
(DIR) Post #A7S97u2tLvY51XOuRc by mdhughes@appdot.net
2021-05-20T21:21:37Z
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@alexbuzzbee Without MS sabotage, Java applets would've fully developed into the main interactive content system. JS & CSS would remain a minor afterthought.
(DIR) Post #A7S9AQFiZyV7UUbM5w by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T21:22:05Z
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@mdhughes You're right, I completely forgot about Java!
(DIR) Post #A7S9Ul5MpeU9tYSOX2 by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T21:25:43Z
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@mdhughes I wonder if Web Start (or something similar) would be a thing, or maybe even take over from applets?
(DIR) Post #A7S9WJmbJW6rnRQHFQ by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T21:26:02Z
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@mdhughes I wonder if Web Start (or something similar) would be a thing, or maybe even have taken over from applets?
(DIR) Post #A7S9jN8Y9fMPxmujHE by mdhughes@appdot.net
2021-05-20T21:28:24Z
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@alexbuzzbee Hopefully. By '98-ish? We had applets as a zip instead of streaming each class down individually, which caused half-broken applets sometimes. I hated having to structure my applets as loading page, that then invokes the next class which makes it load and long delay later, program runs.
(DIR) Post #A7SA1TcSn9xfHTXSfw by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T21:31:39Z
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@mdhughes I really wish I could send a Terminator back to kill IE and stop Oracle from buying Sun now. I think the Javaverse would be a better place to be a programmer.
(DIR) Post #A7SB4HzmZ82W3LLorQ by mdhughes@appdot.net
2021-05-20T21:43:21Z
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@alexbuzzbee I think I prefer actual coding in modern JavaScript, Java even before generics was always a lot of jerking around with types, and now it's a giant maze of arguing with the compiler and rewriting subtypes over and over.But it was awesome having a consistent UI toolkit, filesystem, network tools on every machine.
(DIR) Post #A7SBIJrMQoF3tA6NWK by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T21:45:55Z
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@mdhughes Yeah but somebody would have invented better JVM languages (people did even without Java being the main client app language), and the infrastructure around it would have just kept getting better.
(DIR) Post #A7SBcodph9cv9GY1OS by mdhughes@appdot.net
2021-05-20T21:49:36Z
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@alexbuzzbee True, and I have used Beanshell, Groovy, Kawa Scheme, Clojure, and I wrote a language in Java, Minimal (used in my original Hephaestus game engine).But so much of production Java would be (and still is, on back end) in the core language, and SUN started that process of making it harder and harder to use long before Oracle.
(DIR) Post #A7SBkzjiKQa7sKCNRw by SciencePhysicist@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T21:51:05Z
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@alexbuzzbee I'd be more interested in a history where OEMs didn't bow down to Microsoft and not ship Windows on everything. Perhaps novell would still be with us, maybe group ware might have become more interesting space.Either way I would like to think that without Microsoft interoperability would have been achieved with open standards, across the board
(DIR) Post #A7SC19IOYS6G9l7hyq by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T21:54:01Z
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@mdhughes It's certainly not an unequivocal improvement, but personally I think I would prefer dealing with the Java language in an environment where the JVM really does run everywhere without incredible hassle to the various problems that JavaScript and modern Web apps bring.
(DIR) Post #A7SC8MPyAIl4sh6ZLU by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T21:55:19Z
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@SciencePhysicist Maybe OS/2 would be alive. Maybe NT OS/2 would even have happened.
(DIR) Post #A7SCOouO0P9fsPBGMq by starbreaker@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T21:58:18Z
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@alexbuzzbee I'd send one back to whack Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Sergei Brin, Larry Page, Brendan Eich, Mark Andresson, Paul Graham, Peter Thiel, Jack Dorsey, Ev Williams, and Mark Zuckerberg.@mdhughes
(DIR) Post #A7SCkH3EZCUlEzY6oC by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T22:02:10Z
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@starbreaker @mdhughes The one I wonder most about is Graham, what did he do to get on the list?
(DIR) Post #A7SDhVjjbsKVs9ftr6 by mdhughes@appdot.net
2021-05-20T22:09:43Z
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@starbreaker @alexbuzzbee I'm'a send my new Terminators back to stop your old busted Terminators from hurting Jobs, Woz, Andreesen, Graham. Probably Brin & Page don't deserve it either, but I'm sure they have their own.
(DIR) Post #A7SDhW8Y7cBB77HiXA by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T22:12:52Z
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@mdhughes @starbreaker Gotta do something about Apple after we start to get into the modern era though. I don't think Google deserves to be founded.
(DIR) Post #A7SEC6l4WrZ1NdtFoG by starbreaker@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T22:18:23Z
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@alexbuzzbee Aside from running a little sociopath incubator called Y Combinator?@mdhughes
(DIR) Post #A7SEEo04j9nG4XC5se by starbreaker@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T22:18:55Z
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@alexbuzzbee Aside from running a little sociopath incubator called Y Combinator? Graham is one of the money men behind a lot of the really dumb shit that comes out of Sillycon Valley.@mdhughes
(DIR) Post #A7SEYdb776ffbIyWjw by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-20T22:22:28Z
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@mdhughes @starbreaker Or maybe not. They weren't evil way at the beginning. If we could somehow stop them from taking the company public, maybe that would help.
(DIR) Post #A7SZml8pxbLQ5bK9aK by derp@fosstodon.org
2021-05-21T02:20:20Z
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@alexbuzzbee technically, Microsoft never released IE. They rebranded another browser. Just like they are doing recently again.
(DIR) Post #A7SZvHAskKhzkqLF4q by alexbuzzbee@fosstodon.org
2021-05-21T02:21:52Z
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@derp They released a piece of software known as "Internet Explorer." Just because they did not develop the entirety of the code does not mean they didn't release it, just like that fact that the Document Foundation didn't write the original StarOffice code doesn't mean they didn't release LibreOffice 7.