Post A7OYNFeH2J9GacSgO8 by Rokken@liberdon.com
(DIR) More posts by Rokken@liberdon.com
(DIR) Post #A7OO4pXcMgtOrgvSee by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T01:50:19Z
10 likes, 6 repeats
BREAKING NEWS STORY, EVERYONE PANIC! ARIZONA MAN USES RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION TO EXPRESS OPINION! AAAAA
(DIR) Post #A7OOaGxYTShYsX3CAi by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-19T01:56:00.866354Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Rokken I don't get people who put up the confederate flag. The south lost. You don't want to be a loser. You want to be a winner.
(DIR) Post #A7ORhj1UpgTlo18hV2 by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T02:30:58Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog The US proceeded to lose in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Don't get me wrong -- the Confederacy isn't exactly my cup of tea, but the US is the one that won to go on to fund terrorism, shoot up its own schools, and have zero representation for its people while handing corporations their every desire on a silver platter, up to and including wars to enrich the war profiteers.
(DIR) Post #A7ORtF5PxjrWQwSujw by lefarfadet@mstdn.io
2021-05-19T02:33:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@RokkenI'd be more upset about the american flag being upside down...
(DIR) Post #A7ORx2DLlKq9faz4EK by ew@social.ancreport.com
2021-05-19T02:33:42.736412Z
5 likes, 2 repeats
@djsumdog @Rokken lincoln and the union is where the corruption in america started, the confederates tried to get away from it and were slaughtered for it
(DIR) Post #A7OSDumycgqxYzhHyy by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-19T02:36:47.555047Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Rokken lose in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan … including wars to enrich the war profiteersIt defends on your definition of losing. The people who were playing the game won biggly. The US hasn’t really lost Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, sure the people are fucked, but the game was never about democracy or freedom or whatever bullshit. It was to take the opium, oil and prop up the corrurpt regimes to cheaply extract all the other resources. 🛢️🛢️🛢️
(DIR) Post #A7OSJDzmdnaEZzDf7Y by shebang@freespeech.group
2021-05-19T02:37:45.587600Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Rokken @djsumdog Here is my observations a devil foreigner (Canadian).While the left associates the confederate flag with racism, I don’t see why they get to decide that. It wasn’t their flag, and the war wasn’t entirely about slavery, it was also very much about federal power. That’s why the common soldier fought, he certainly didn’t own slaves and racism didn’t end in 1865 (it obviously ended in 2004 when Obama got elected). There is a cultural difference between the north and south in America and it seems to me that many southerners gather around that.
(DIR) Post #A7OSMz93nQRrgELrQe by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T02:38:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog and you still don't see why someone might want to try that secession thing again?
(DIR) Post #A7OSfWllWL7nB0IUmO by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-19T02:41:46.994793Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@shebang @Rokken the war wasn’t entirely about slavery,To be fair on this point, slavery was a big part of it. States’ rights was kinda a weasel term. If you go back and read each state’s deceleration of independence (those that survived; not every state had one) almost all of them mention the right to keep slaves in the opening paragraph (sometimes in the first sentence).
(DIR) Post #A7OSiAzExrLiUHrZYG by chuculate@anime.website
2021-05-19T02:42:16.250940Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ew @djsumdog @Rokken don't ever forget the appeal of the underdog.
(DIR) Post #A7OSqHdg7DyXR4dxHE by shebang@freespeech.group
2021-05-19T02:43:43.556485Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog @Rokken do you think that was the reason the soldiers fought so far against the north? So the wealthy could keep their slaves? They just hated the blacks so much that half a million people had to die. Nah, that might have been the reason for the wealthy few, but it wasn’t for the common guy.
(DIR) Post #A7OSt9L3QsqIYrIaxc by ew@social.ancreport.com
2021-05-19T02:44:13.542172Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@chuculate @Rokken @djsumdog why would I root for the side that put southerners in camps, mass raped them, and made them dirt poor for 80 years
(DIR) Post #A7OT1BZ72NzTmfhr0q by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T02:45:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shebang The average soldier was drafted. Maybe they would have joined anyway because of Union soldiers invading, but most of the time they were pressed into fighting and weren't rich enough to dodge the draft. It's true that there's a cultural divide somewhere around the Ohio River, but it's also true that racism happened and people looked to the political entity that proclaimed black slavery the natural order of things for symbolism.
(DIR) Post #A7OT7U33EPfaqSiGp6 by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-19T02:46:50.115527Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Rokken I’d like to see peaceful divorce. No one is old enough to know the horrors of a civil war in America. My parents’ both survived a civil war, and that shit … it doesn’t go away. My sibling and I grew up in the shadow of that. My father told me about how his family left everything they had and walked .. they walked because the trains were being stopped and the people robbed and slaughtered. War is a crime against civilization. To quote William T Sherman:“I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell. … You people of the South don’t know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don’t know what you’re talking about. War is a terrible thing! … War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”
(DIR) Post #A7OT8V2X1vgiD5xFGC by chuculate@anime.website
2021-05-19T02:47:00.649462Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ew @Rokken @djsumdog you would never. I was replying to djsumdog while extending your thread. Do you consider the yankees the underdog?
(DIR) Post #A7OTAx9XTfbnyqOzHk by average_random_joe@noagendasocial.com
2021-05-19T02:47:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ew @djsumdog @Rokken I don’t know, Adam’s and Jefferson had their fair share. Hamilton? I mean If I remember right, DC moved to buy a bit of Washington’s property at a premium. And then you had the army bonds that enriched bankers. If it wasn’t corrupt during Washington’s reign, it certainly was after. They did great in creating this more perfect union but power always corrupts. That is why you want as little in one person as possible.
(DIR) Post #A7OTCMq5SiKxvzyhBQ by ew@social.ancreport.com
2021-05-19T02:47:40.909254Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@chuculate @Rokken @djsumdog oh, I misread then
(DIR) Post #A7OTG2m40MamrXqhZA by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2021-05-19T02:48:23.715780Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@shebang @Rokken @djsumdog it's something we're allowed to hate. Most people don't turn down something they are socially allowed to hate unless they have a reason to
(DIR) Post #A7OTLaA1IoYlrAhB1k by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T02:49:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog Peaceful divorce is my goal, as well, but the CNJ is so intertwined with the idea of my state seceding that to use anything else would essentially be political suicide.
(DIR) Post #A7OTZjp8AjXhsdftMe by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-19T02:51:56.560608Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Yoda_Jedi_Master @Rokken Your instance looks like it runs soapbox. Click on the **MD** for markdown syntax. Then you can use > on a line to start a quote, underscores around things for for _italics_ and double stars for **bold**. It won't be formatting on instances that don't support Markdown rendering.
(DIR) Post #A7OTaneRQWCy2bBHrk by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-19T02:52:08.732030Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Yoda_Jedi_Master @Rokken Your instance looks like it runs soapbox. Click on the MD for markdown syntax. Then you can use > on a line to start a quote, underscores around things for for italics and double stars for bold. It won’t be formatting on instances that don’t support Markdown rendering.
(DIR) Post #A7OTfodTC7DoXe7P1s by chuculate@anime.website
2021-05-19T02:53:03.030837Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ew I may have made it difficult to read. @Rokken @djsumdog
(DIR) Post #A7OTgbi6jf2wkDfIYq by Tepid_Tapir@poa.st
2021-05-19T02:53:11.729790Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog @shebang @Rokken this is what the winners of the war want you to believe. It was about state rights. And this is coming from a born n raised northerner.
(DIR) Post #A7OTlJRC6J1DWJzujo by ew@social.ancreport.com
2021-05-19T02:54:01.497054Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@chuculate @Rokken @djsumdog no I was just making assumptions
(DIR) Post #A7OU0SPD2YMtg5I5Vg by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-19T02:56:46.281877Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Rokken CNJ?I honestly think the US will likely fall into a defacto EU state .. there's no way to restrict work or travel with the way the nation is laid out. I just think states will start ignoring federal laws (some already have with cannabis). The US will turn into the schengen area, the dollar will be like a Euro. ventually there will be a big trigger: e.g. a state outlawing federal income tax. If things break apart, the states won't look like they do now geographically; they'll form new borders with the rivers. The other parallels will disappear.
(DIR) Post #A7OUEKF0C1CUPT84zw by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-19T02:59:16.463883Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Yoda_Jedi_Master @Rokken oh it doesn't add anything to the UI. You just have to know it. Lookup "markdown syntax" .. it's used a lot of places, blogs, Reddit, etc.
(DIR) Post #A7OUGp9iDw4ErwqXlw by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T02:59:43Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog Confederate Naval Jack -- the rectangular version of the battle flag.Honestly, that sounds like a good thing. I already advocate for that happening for the South if it ever gets around to seceding. It maximizes the ability for the people experiencing issues to solve them, while easing logistics. However, I would make adherence to some form of the Bill of Rights mandatory.
(DIR) Post #A7OUUFQpqC7k7zFxyK by Indigo@shitposter.club
2021-05-19T03:02:10.086712Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog @shebang @Rokken Slavery was a negligible part of why the south succeeded at best, the main reason was the tariffs being imposed on the southern states by the north, which were crippling southern agricultural industries to bolster northern onesAlso, The Corwin Amendment of 1861 (before the war started) would have fully and completely enshrined Slavery into the constitution as a state issue, under the condition that the tariffs stay. Every state that broke off to form the CSA voted against it except Mississippi, because slavery was not the main issue, the issue was that the south was paying a lions share of the taxes for the whole country, but not receiving representation in the government.Also, as has been stated, the average southerner didn't care about this or slavery, they were fighting to defend their homes from being burned down, because Grant was a sadistic bastard and the scorched earth policy would easily be considered a violation of the Geneva convention today.
(DIR) Post #A7OUYKybAUSYTy00Dw by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-19T03:02:54.310015Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Rokken oh I’m not saying it’s a bad thing at all. I think it would be a good thing, just like the UK leaving the EU; really the only good way to go. A hot war would be horrific.
(DIR) Post #A7OUcQpVLc6jnJhKJU by Indigo@shitposter.club
2021-05-19T03:03:38.864637Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djsumdog @Rokken @shebang *Seceded, not succeeded.
(DIR) Post #A7OUfe8WKWYpvv7p56 by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T03:04:12Z
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@average_random_joe @ew @djsumdog The problem began in 1788. The Constitution has too much wiggle room, and look where it got us. Even little things like "delegating," rather than "granting" authority to the federal government would have solved things.
(DIR) Post #A7OUgj13fnOzMB9JFg by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2021-05-19T03:04:25.261997Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Yoda_Jedi_Master @Rokken :agummywhee:
(DIR) Post #A7OV1T6W1pt05VapIe by ew@social.ancreport.com
2021-05-19T03:08:08.036222Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Rokken @average_random_joe @djsumdog or just not signing the constitution
(DIR) Post #A7OV7blQkCP4gRerpY by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T03:09:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Indigo@shebang Said like a true lost causer. Slavery was not the cause of /war/, but they sure talked a lot about it for it to not be their main issue. A whole lot more than they did taxes. The Corwin Amendment could be repealed later, and it's true that all the stuff about slavery in the Confederate constitution could be repealed too, but it was massively less likely when there weren't any free states to pester them to it.
(DIR) Post #A7OV9KcbRxv663LpQW by average_random_joe@noagendasocial.com
2021-05-19T03:09:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Rokken @ew @djsumdog I think you overestimated the goodness of human beings and the corrupting effect of power. Power has a way of consolidating unless actively fought against regardless of language and of always corrupting. While I think it could have been worded better, I don’t have any illusions that we wouldn’t have ended up in much the same situation.
(DIR) Post #A7OVK6vqgiEEpBUdAO by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T03:11:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@average_random_joe I probably am, but it would have delayed things a little, hopefully. I can't really say. Odd, since I usually have a pretty negative view of humanity.
(DIR) Post #A7OVMeOJG7HVAv14pE by average_random_joe@noagendasocial.com
2021-05-19T03:11:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ew @djsumdog @Rokken And be conquested and executed by The prime super power at the time Britain. They were licking their chops and probably should have won even with the colonies united against them. Separate they would have easily fallen and been be made an example.
(DIR) Post #A7OVRPRMH00IFniB28 by ew@social.ancreport.com
2021-05-19T03:12:49.744961Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@average_random_joe @djsumdog @Rokken defense pacts are a thing you don't need a federal government
(DIR) Post #A7OWIp5vcanJAR9pS4 by Indigo@shitposter.club
2021-05-19T03:22:30.797556Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Rokken @shebang Slavery was an issue, I'm not saying it had nothing to do with it; I'm saying that it was a much more nuanced conflict then court historians give it credit for, and the textbook understanding of the war is skewed heavily in favor of the north.Also, while you can make arguments about thet individual southern states' motivations may have been, Lincoln's were clear; he did not give a crap about the slaves, and said so himself more than once. He was only interested in the war as it keyed into the interests of his railroad buddies, and was debatably the father of neo-conservatism, but that's another topic.
(DIR) Post #A7OWPBpG1LA3P7Oao4 by average_random_joe@noagendasocial.com
2021-05-19T03:23:39Z
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@ew @djsumdog @Rokken They are a thing. Those are what started WWI. And didn’t help the Greeks. And how long before they have a National army? Like the EU is pushing for? Open borders and free trade also pushed prosperity a lot. Our system wasn’t perfect but don’t underestimate what good it was able to do in a world unprecedented with a similar system.
(DIR) Post #A7OWVm1QMBJtP0E4Po by ew@social.ancreport.com
2021-05-19T03:24:49.238687Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@average_random_joe @djsumdog @Rokken apologist
(DIR) Post #A7OXCpmWFprfVxmrs8 by Tripp@poa.st
2021-05-19T03:32:38.053412Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Rokken Man, if the faggot media ever saw what I fly on my property they'd probably have a heart attack.
(DIR) Post #A7OXMv4tPwvSpwBrma by oversaturation@poa.st
2021-05-19T03:33:42.549790Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Tripp @Rokken At this point the Confederate flag is just rebellion against the current anti-white status quo.
(DIR) Post #A7OXMvV7qPuS9ISofg by Tripp@poa.st
2021-05-19T03:34:27.313700Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@oversaturation @Rokken I fly the Confederate flag I fought under and a happy fun kiss fanclub one too because fuck everybody.
(DIR) Post #A7OXpLNbDoq4WCUgZE by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T03:39:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Indigo I didn't say you did -- but slavery 'not being the main issue' /is/ your claim, and nobody's ever backed up that claim with anything more than "well why didn't they ratify the Corwin amendment?"Between all their secession documents, the Cornerstone speech, and the language in the Constitution enshrining slavery that all of the states agreed to, they made a big deal of it.And nice deflection, someone else being bad isn't evidence their enemy is good. It's correct, but irrelevant.
(DIR) Post #A7OXrE9T4A3QgFmYHg by average_random_joe@noagendasocial.com
2021-05-19T03:39:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ew @djsumdog @Rokken If they makes you feel better. Understanding isn’t the same as apologizing for it. The real world isn’t as black and white as that
(DIR) Post #A7OXvBT6z4LHW7rCPw by ew@social.ancreport.com
2021-05-19T03:40:37.983440Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@average_random_joe @djsumdog @Rokken nah you're the type that apologizes for genocides because they were necessary
(DIR) Post #A7OYNFeH2J9GacSgO8 by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T03:45:42Z
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@s8n @Indigo 1860 was kinda late for that given that the three-fifths compromise was a federal law.
(DIR) Post #A7OZBnoEInHR13Dt0y by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T03:54:50Z
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@s8n @Indigo citizenship was already at least partially a federal issue since the very start. it kinda had to be given the whole "freedom of movement and full faith in the other states' records" thing.
(DIR) Post #A7OaDaVWpPJSILtISO by Indigo@shitposter.club
2021-05-19T04:06:23.257850Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
@Rokken Fair; I'll admit, I hate Lincoln, I hate how American folklore has deified a warmongering cronyist who suspended habius corpus and jailed journalists as a paragon of what a president should be; when I start talking about the civil war that tends to leak into the discussion even when it isn't necessarily relevant, I'm willing to concede that.I won't concede on slavery not being the cause for the war though, any survey of the economic situation the south was in would point to secession being the only option for them, and I can give plenty more examples of the south being willing to give up slavery before and during the war.It's worth noting that Virginia had a bill to abolish slavery fail by only one vote years before the war, and before most northern states abolished it (you could argue they kept slavery after the war in the form of barely paid Chinese labor or coal miners being paid in script all the way up to the mid 20th century). Also, by 1860, only 4.8% of the population still owned slaves (if the census of that year is to be believed), and virtually everyone actually doing the fighting were not slave holders (this includes Robert E. Lee, who freed all his slaves years before the war started).It's also well documented that when Jefferson Davis tried to get the British Government to support the south in the war, he did so on the basis of abolishing slavery as a condition for their monetary and military support.That's what I have off the top of my head, if I had the time to go through any of the books I've read on the subject, I could go more in depth.(I'm sorry for the long post or if I come off as upset, this is a topic that I feel somewhat passionate about, it isn't personal)
(DIR) Post #A7OaalDp9rzWBZewro by Rokken@liberdon.com
2021-05-19T04:10:33Z
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@Indigo holy fucking shit dude you need to get those goalposts bolted the fuck down. first it was "slavery was a negligible part of secession," then "slavery wasn't the main reason for secession," and now "slavery wasn't the main reason for war".also, ever hear of this funny little thing called a "draft"? it's what we used to dodge back in the 70s for funi wouldn't say it's that well known if after spending a few years around neoconfederate circles this is the first time i'm hearing about it.
(DIR) Post #A7OyCZO5u7pjQqSdxw by average_random_joe@noagendasocial.com
2021-05-19T08:35:05Z
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@ew @djsumdog I have no idea what you are talking about but you seem to know everything already apparently and have it all figured out and don’t need no one else. Like a mature adult. Good luck kid.
(DIR) Post #A7OybzF2ut1krALffM by average_random_joe@noagendasocial.com
2021-05-19T08:39:41Z
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@ew @djsumdog I have no idea what you are talking about but you seem to know everything already apparently and have it all figured out and don’t need no one else. Like a mature adult. Good luck kid.I am muting this conversation since it won’t be productive clearly. Because I point to two major points in history that your defense pact didn’t work, one of nation states the founders were well aware of, and suddenly I am literally hitler meaning you are empty