Post A5MD2Zff22d9ebfql6 by Woodpile@social.quodverum.com
(DIR) More posts by Woodpile@social.quodverum.com
(DIR) Post #A5MBKmTTy2e6fSX0eu by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T04:35:19Z
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As a fellow traveler on a photon (and presumably mass-less yourself) you could traverse billions of light years IN A VIRTUAL INSTANT.From that photon's perspective only.Time in your frame would be "normal", while time everywhere else would be abnormally sped up. Relative to you.The universe would be a massive fireworks display as whole galaxies underwent life and death cycles.Any galaxy that far away didn't exist before you left and one you "saw" wouldn't be there when you arrived.FUN?
(DIR) Post #A5MBxRFsnJ1U9PbUkS by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T04:42:18Z
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Hate to be the sci-fi spoiler but, wormholes or not, if you ever DID travel at light speed - kiss your entire civilization, and likely your entire species - goodbye first. It would all be gone in an instant. There would be nothing you would recognize to return to.
(DIR) Post #A5MCTTI0lYlvj7sEnA by Wesihcfan@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T04:48:06Z
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@StevenDouglas That's assuming time is real. The thought occurred to me the other day that humans are the only species on the planet that use the concepts of time, distance, temperature, mass, volume, color, etc.No other species "measures".
(DIR) Post #A5MCavwkcNs8dGUIQy by BrokerDon@noagendasocial.com
2021-03-19T04:49:26Z
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@StevenDouglasI'm missing something... Don't photons travel at the speed of light? Travelers on a photon should require billions of years to travel billions of light years.Please fill me in.
(DIR) Post #A5MCu2VQSH7YTfohrU by Wendy@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T04:52:53Z
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@StevenDouglas I found, after watching the Star Treks a bit too much, that its shields, warp speeds, light years, and wormholes were repeated so often it became shallow and I began to hate it. I felt a lot was being just stuck in there and I didn't even understand the SCIENCE! behind it.
(DIR) Post #A5MD2Zff22d9ebfql6 by Woodpile@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T04:54:26Z
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@StevenDouglas Brilliant and deep!
(DIR) Post #A5MEITgNAH6LfV9cRM by scottgfx@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T05:08:30Z
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@Wendy @StevenDouglas If we're not already, we'll all be on the Holodeck, living in a simulation of our requested time.
(DIR) Post #A5MEPwyodTxcYmLNy4 by Wendy@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T05:09:52Z
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@scottgfx I actually abhor all that now; it's not even an escape entertainment anymore. I want the real.@StevenDouglas
(DIR) Post #A5MFR2Q008YJfe8ooy by BCPaladin@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T05:21:16Z
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@StevenDouglas Unless you believe in special relativity.
(DIR) Post #A5MHAED16v6ZDxBIHY by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T05:40:38Z
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@Wesihcfan Except when I a cat "calibrating" for a jump. That's loads of math (and space-time-mass oriented physics) that their brains are processing, but just not consciously understanding as such.
(DIR) Post #A5MHkr2wBvQm6KvoMi by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T05:47:16Z
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@BCPaladin It's the second plank of special relativity that is misapprehended by many:2. The SPEED of light in vacuum is the same for all observers, regardless of the motion of the light source or observer.SPEED vs TIMEThe trap is in the "regardless of the motion of the light source or observer" part.The "SPEED" is the same for all observers.The "PERCEPTION" (the actual passage of TIME relative to one another) is always different.As special relativity AND experiments have proved.
(DIR) Post #A5MIKHMiKW4hrb4c4W by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T05:53:39Z
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@BCPaladin Imagine if you could instantaneously (MAGICALLY) view me aboard a ship traveling at light speed. I'm about to take a sip of coffee. The cup is a millimeter from my lips.You could live your entire life watching that. The cup would never reach my lips. I'd be as still as any galaxy in the sky. If I could have the same image of you I couldn't even watch it. Your entire existence wouldn't even register as a blip on my screen, it would be gone in less than a flash.
(DIR) Post #A5MIicNxpShE0SGQ1Q by BCPaladin@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T05:58:03Z
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@StevenDouglas This is true. But in that context how do you reach light "speed" without acceleration. Speed is distance over time. So you have to be moving. In order for me to be able to observe you I would have to be traveling at the same speed. Relativity.
(DIR) Post #A5MJf0O8kFmHFIBfsW by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T06:08:37Z
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@BCPaladin At light speed the passage of time elsewhere depends on the distance I travel. 1 Astronomical Unit (AU) is the distance from the sun to Earth.If I traveled that distance as a circle ending up back at Earth, I would effectively transport myself 8 mins into the future.That's the "time", from our perspective, that it takes for a photon leaving the sun to reach Earth.NOTHING on my end, while EIGHT MINUTES happens on yours.I would miss out on that time. AND the trip. *BLIP!*
(DIR) Post #A5MKW1JW2E9lSoItWK by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T06:18:11Z
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@BCPaladin Even that's misapprehended. It's not that matter can't reach the *speed* of light. It's that it can't do it in OUR *time* frame. As proved in colliders.From your perspective my MASS appears to have grown so great that I can no longer accelerate.Nope.From MY frame nothing has changed. I'm still accelerating, but it will take me BILLIONS OF YOUR YEARS - to accelerate any more.By the [MY] time I achieve light speed I've already spanned the entire universe.
(DIR) Post #A5ML7DsgH0TD9eUXU8 by BCPaladin@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T06:24:55Z
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@StevenDouglas What I always come back to is that we're not talking about what is understood as time, which is just another unit of measure. Perspective is just a word to describe the orientation from which one sees. I understand the concepts to the point that I see that what we're talking about is the concept of space-time introduced by special relativity and that beyond the speed of light something happens that affects the physical. If it was truly physical it would be linear.
(DIR) Post #A5MLzpQ2vJT1DN8Twm by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T06:34:47Z
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@BCPaladin If I accelerated at 1G it would take about eleven months to achieve light speed.MY TIME ONLY.Problem: I'd be at the edge of the known universe LONG (relatively speaking) before then.From YOUR TIME my speed would be incredible but my *acceleration* would remain that same, relatively tinier but still constant amount.From MY TIME I'd be out of the solar system in a few months, as the solar system rotation and position would appear, exponentially, to speed up and speed past me.
(DIR) Post #A5MMNfvLsSi6iT9LwO by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T06:39:05Z
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@BCPaladin SciFi authors talk about stasis and cryogenetics to handle long hauls. No need.IT'S BUILT IN NATURALLY.From your perspective I'm already slowed to crawl before I exited the solar system.
(DIR) Post #A5MMp7H8IHpzMbQGY4 by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T06:44:03Z
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@BCPaladin SciFi authors talk about stasis and cryogenetics to handle long hauls. No need.IT'S BUILT IN NATURALLY.From your perspective I'm already slowed to an imperceptible crawl by the [YOUR] time I exit the solar system.I don't know why but I've always been able to keep multiple frames in my mind simultaneously. The inability of people to separate themselves from THEIR frames (reckoning all others thereby) keeps them, I believe, from seeing the real experience - and limitations.
(DIR) Post #A5MNsehsYMOZs8BUp6 by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T06:55:54Z
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@BCPaladin Here's the big problem (in terms of perception - not Einstein's theory). Speed is a function of time (AND distance, but let's just talk time). The "speed" of light IS a constant.HOWEVER - we're reckon/filter it through OUR TIME FRAME - which is NOT A CONSTANT. As already proved many times.And that's where everyone's minds turn to jelly.
(DIR) Post #A5MO0H5yDw7WxX5Ou8 by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T06:57:17Z
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@BCPaladin Here's the big problem (in terms of perception - not Einstein's theory). Speed is a function of time (AND distance, but let's just talk time). The "speed" of light IS a constant.HOWEVER - we're reckoning (filtering) it through OUR TIME FRAME - which is NOT A CONSTANT.As already proved many times.And that's where everyone's minds turn to jelly.
(DIR) Post #A5MPCqy2mHHPdywMWO by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T07:10:45Z
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@BCPaladin So when Special Relativity says the speed of light is the "same for all observers" it is saying that with an EARTH-CENTRIC speed (distance/time) reference. And so it is true. As long as I use THAT as my reference it will be the same everywhere, for all observers, regardless of motion, regardless of PERCEPTION - or the REAL DIFFERENCES IN THE PASSAGE OF TIME.IOW, it's a circular reference/argument.
(DIR) Post #A5MPn1rXkNpbrM9LIO by BCPaladin@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T07:17:18Z
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@StevenDouglas Exactly
(DIR) Post #A5Mb6UcO9qIg2cXqEq by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T09:24:04Z
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@BCPaladin If a magical "instantaneous" observer from Earth looked at a stopwatch aboard my "near speed of light" craft, it would appear frozen in time.For me it would continue ticking normally. To ME, the "speed" as I travel between two rapidly spinning/exploding galaxies: Clickick…pause…clickick - MANY TIMES the speed of light.Perceptually.Ad Hoc cheat (which works mathematically): "Space AND time was compressed." (CONFLATED)Yeah, I hate it when Van Allen Belt particles do that.
(DIR) Post #A5MbHaLrBJsF0a6LzM by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T09:26:04Z
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@BCPaladin If a magical "instantaneous" observer from Earth looked at a stopwatch aboard my "near speed of light" craft, it would appear frozen in time.For me it would continue ticking normally. To ME, the "speed" as I travel between two rapidly spinning/exploding galaxies: Clickick…pause…clickick - MANY TIMES the speed of light.Perceptually.Ad Hoc cheat (which works mathematically): "Space AND time were compressed." (CONFLATED)Yeah, I hate it when Van Allen Belt particles do that.
(DIR) Post #A5Mkyg90Q3aV0uiK3M by tinadiz@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T11:14:42Z
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@StevenDouglas @BCPaladin Steven,, could you please return to handy recipes?I cannot fathom time and photons and relativity...I only have four brain cells left.BTW I have discovered what exactly a black hole is.. (just between us?)I would say good morning, but I think it might be evening where you are...
(DIR) Post #A5MpK5xY29eAyZp2I4 by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T12:03:24Z
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@LuizLibonati Thank you, Luiz, I have read that, it's a wonderful article.
(DIR) Post #A5Mw2HNFYUtgqPIPCq by rosemaxx7@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T13:18:38Z
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@StevenDouglas sounds like something that might happen when we die...
(DIR) Post #A5N8VyKg7ABFvS1BSq by Wesihcfan@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-19T15:38:27Z
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@StevenDouglas True, but the cat doesn't know how high the jump was, what time of day it did it or what day it is.It could be argued that the cat is operating purely on instinct.
(DIR) Post #A5NyOiRC0ZxeDYvUYK by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-20T01:19:47Z
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@dvcali77 Made no sense to me. When something is created it ceases to exist? Was the "don't not get to" double negative intentional?
(DIR) Post #A5O3sjzpHGcrVgGJoO by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-20T02:21:16Z
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@dvcali77 To be clear, I'm not trying to anthropomorphize (ascribe human attributes onto) inanimate energy or matter.I later wrote about what we would experience (as imaginary observers) in a circular 93M mile light speed journey from and back to Earth.*BLIP!* as 8 minutes "instantaneously" passes on Earth - from our perspective.So, no disagreement there. But.Generation/dissipation (not creation/destruction) of energy always has a time element to it. Which we can measure. (cont)
(DIR) Post #A5O5OQ278RT4og09jM by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-20T02:38:11Z
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@dvcali77 The point of my thread was not about extremes of Earth time vs light speed or the mechanics and dynamics of photons. Physicists are still lost in those weeds, as none can say with any certainty whether photons even have non-zero rest mass.It was to illustrate HOW our speed relative to other masses alters the time relative to each.That would be perceptible to us at any speed over 1/10th of the speed of light, and a concept that does not require full light speed to illustrate.
(DIR) Post #A5O7MPvEmCMbnkxT9s by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-20T03:00:15Z
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@dvcali77 The fun part (for me) is to illustrate IN BETWEEN dynamics, so that we as imaginary riders can see two different reference frames:* stationary observer on Earth* ship accelerating at 1G ...would look like side-by-side, simultaneously.All philosophical musings about whether or not time, which we experience and can measure in this realm, even exists are not relevant to that. Also the 1G constant acceleration is nifty from a SciFi perspective because artificial gravity.