Post A42MS7cJymIKBOZ3zc by metapianycist@queer.party
(DIR) More posts by metapianycist@queer.party
(DIR) Post #A413NznN1fywTj5kW0 by vortex_egg@hackers.town
2021-02-07T02:01:11Z
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A reminder that all the research and data shows that people who believe in QAnon and other far right conspiracy theories are not stupid or uneducated (in fact it tracks with a higher attainment of educational outcomes), and the liberal narrative that believes it is so is a classist footgun that is going to bite everyone in the ass.https://newrepublic.com/article/161266/qanon-classism-marjorie-taylor-greene
(DIR) Post #A415XgS20B5jHtrFYW by space_cadet@aus.social
2021-02-07T02:16:56Z
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@vortex_egg How does it correlate with religiosity, I wonder? And not just Xianity, I mean any kind of superstitious belief?
(DIR) Post #A415Xh0lv0sf1e6zho by vortex_egg@hackers.town
2021-02-07T02:20:02Z
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@space_cadet That’s a good question. I’ll keep my eyes open for that.Related side-note, I have an intuition that there is a parallel anti-religious liberal classism that works with the exact same logic: “Anyone who has religious beliefs must be stupid.”
(DIR) Post #A415XhWK1i7MbUsBsm by space_cadet@aus.social
2021-02-07T02:26:00Z
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@vortex_egg Yeah that type of No True Scotsman pigeonholing is so lazy and elitist for atheists/naturalists to be guilty of
(DIR) Post #A415XhygKGnq1S8q5Q by mithrandir@pl.wizards.zone
2021-02-07T02:28:35.927440Z
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@space_cadet @vortex_egg ah, but atheists and naturalists have a long, proud tradition of being lazy and elitist!
(DIR) Post #A415XiEzLdqYq1lrVI by space_cadet@aus.social
2021-02-07T02:19:28Z
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@vortex_egg Because gullibility/suggestibility and/or sloppy logical thinking seems to be a prerequisite and that is more related to childhood indoctrination than formal education and/or actual IQ
(DIR) Post #A41695dZK7EI7E5hzs by space_cadet@aus.social
2021-02-07T02:35:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mithrandir @vortex_egg In addition, the Venn diagram of the perfect group of friends would also include Hedonist. Then I could finally let my hair down and finally let my inner European Aristocrat live his best life
(DIR) Post #A42MRypSeYSQvXdviy by metapianycist@queer.party
2021-02-07T03:47:37Z
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@space_cadet @vortex_egg In Steven Hassan's work on cults, he finds that cults and cultlike groups don’t desire gullible people because gullible people can be easily swayed against the cult. cults instead use people's critical thinking ability (and their faith in their own critical thinking ability) against them. people who doubt their own critical thinking ability are much less susceptible to cults.
(DIR) Post #A42MRzNqahxmeBjOK0 by space_cadet@aus.social
2021-02-07T03:51:18Z
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@metapianycist @vortex_egg So,... does that mean that QAnon isn't a cult? Because (and pleae correct me if I'm wrong) people who believe every consipiracy theory they hear, are definitely gullible people ... right?
(DIR) Post #A42MRzsgk2dKBqA1OS by vortex_egg@hackers.town
2021-02-07T04:02:35Z
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@space_cadet The point is that it isn't about gullibility or stupidity. Very smart and critical thinkers can and do get drawn into cults despite, and often because of, their critical thinking abilities.Conversely, belief in things that are not perfectly reducible to sound syllogistic logic does not entail that the believer is either gullible or stupid (or in a cult).@metapianycist made a branching reply to my post which sums it up nicely: https://queer.party/@metapianycist/105687885875109801
(DIR) Post #A42MS0PImmilozQ4EC by space_cadet@aus.social
2021-02-07T04:11:22Z
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@vortex_egg @metapianycist Ok but. I see a distinction between QAnon and cults. It seems to me, that QAnon supporters will just believe anything that Q tells them. They can make up a new conspiracy every week and every single one of them will believe every single one of them. Whereas, cults have a fixed rulebook of "The Truth" that the cult leader made up on day 1, and the cult leader may spout a new "truth" every now and again but it's rare.
(DIR) Post #A42MS0y2hcVhYjfoNU by metapianycist@queer.party
2021-02-07T04:22:09Z
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@space_cadet @vortex_egg if qanon supporters are as gullible as you posit they are, it would be much easier to sway them away from their belief system. additionally, cult leaders have added new material to what they want followers to believe, sometimes contradicting previous material, more frequently than you posit.
(DIR) Post #A42MS1PL48LQvORbvM by space_cadet@aus.social
2021-02-07T04:33:42Z
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@metapianycist @vortex_egg I think I'm gonna check out some of this Steven Hassan stuff. Any recommendations for a good summary-type book?
(DIR) Post #A42MS1rLO0kKKFXyZk by vortex_egg@hackers.town
2021-02-07T04:36:53Z
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@space_cadet I read his book The Cult of Trump.@metapianycist
(DIR) Post #A42MS2PNLTy61nT9cW by vortex_egg@hackers.town
2021-02-07T04:37:48Z
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@space_cadet And this is his website: https://freedomofmind.comHe was an ex-Moonie indoctrinate who got deprogrammed and then spent the rest of his life learning about how cult indoctrination and cult deprograming works.@metapianycist
(DIR) Post #A42MS2zBCMbloqDkQa by vortex_egg@hackers.town
2021-02-07T04:41:51Z
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@space_cadet Another distinction that comes up with Qanon is that it is what is being referred to as a "participatory" conspiracy theory. It has a lot of the same elements as a traditional hierarchical cult, except members also self-initiate by making up their own elaborate theories which then get traded around with other people in the community.In a lot of the reporting I've seen, people aren't just believing whatever Q tells them. A lot of times they would go months without hearing a new "Q drop". And there were lots of recorded instances (in the exfiltrated and archived social media data) where Q would get into fights with some of the regular people because they were stealing "his" spotlight with their own theories.@metapianycist
(DIR) Post #A42MS3Yd4Yxramo3gO by vortex_egg@hackers.town
2021-02-07T04:43:55Z
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@space_cadet @metapianycist But it's worth noting again, some of these people are CEOs, doctors, lawyers, PhD graduates, etc...
(DIR) Post #A42MS43pCZuz9XOyJ6 by space_cadet@aus.social
2021-02-07T04:48:28Z
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@vortex_egg @metapianycist My wife's friend is married to my friend, they met each other while they were both in the same cult, and they left it together. She was the brightest girl at school and studied music & art after school, he was/is a very, very bright engineer and highly paid executive. Clearly, IQ is irrelevant to being drawn into a cult. It might, however have some bearing on the chances of a person eventually leaving.
(DIR) Post #A42MS4Z1Kas6iHzsvo by vortex_egg@hackers.town
2021-02-07T04:53:18Z
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@space_cadet It's possible.One lens I'm looking at it through is contagious collective make-believe. Have you ever played "the floor is lava" or another kind of make believe game (maybe sports? sports fandoms?) and found yourself getting really into it emotionally and physiologically even though you also know it isn't "real"?I think the pertinent point is that everybody can be susceptible to make-believe, and that it can run away from us. And that make-believe can coexist alongside rationality without one crowding the other out.@metapianycist
(DIR) Post #A42MS54ZRI6oI8l56m by space_cadet@aus.social
2021-02-07T05:03:57Z
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@vortex_egg @metapianycist Yes, this is how I think of scientists being religious. Rational thought can superstitious beliefs can be compartmentalised and so they are not mutually exclusive existing in a brain. However, I am almost certain that political policy and religiosity cannot be kept separate in the brain, because political policy is based on belief, not rational thought.
(DIR) Post #A42MS5aTWfd5t5gYq0 by vortex_egg@hackers.town
2021-02-07T05:48:07Z
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@space_cadet I wonder if there is a kind of modern "rationality-chauvanism", that might be common among the non-religious liberal set, which assumes that all beliefs lie either within a zone of rationality or else outside of it in the hinterlands of irrationality.People are mapped into this space as either "being" rational or "being" stupid; or else it assumes that the only way someone could hold rational and irrational beliefs at the same time is through compartmentalization or mindkill.I think the reality is much more complex, and the domain of rationality and "justified true belief" is much much smaller than the fief it lays claim to.@metapianycist
(DIR) Post #A42MS65fegaDRqHTSi by qwxlea@ioc.exchange
2021-02-07T13:38:03Z
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@vortex_egg @space_cadet @metapianycist Isn't it part of the zero-sum divide we see on (US-centric) social media? Anybody not agreeing to the party-line is bad. On the right it's anything that smells like socialism and liberalism.On the left it's anything that's non-progressive or conservative.Religion is by definition conservative. If it was new, it would be called a cult. Everybody has to be safely dead to be called a religion.#philosophy
(DIR) Post #A42MS6bvikO53tNEkC by metapianycist@queer.party
2021-02-07T16:08:02Z
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@qwxlea @vortex_egg @space_cadet please consider the long history of jewish leftist radicalism before using the word "religion" as you are using it.
(DIR) Post #A42MS77TpRcmdk8QvA by qwxlea@ioc.exchange
2021-02-07T16:34:01Z
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@metapianycist @vortex_egg @space_cadet Hmm, don't know exactly what you mean. All I noticed is that being religious *and* being left-leaning is not easy, as it (religion) is considered (by many on the left) conservative and non-intellectual. But maybe you read what I wrote differently. If so, no ill will was intended.
(DIR) Post #A42MS7cJymIKBOZ3zc by metapianycist@queer.party
2021-02-07T17:09:07Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@qwxlea @vortex_egg @space_cadet idk what your experience of religion has been but it would be good to ask yourself if by "religion" you more specifically mean Christianity or Christian fundamentalism. judaism does not have an emphasis on faith or belief or theology. if what you are saying about organized religion in general is not applicable to judaism or buddhism, it's not applicable to religion in general.