Post A3AQsav0EVa8fKcMe8 by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
(DIR) More posts by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
(DIR) Post #A38Fe1BomspBzMPUQ4 by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T15:32:04.562376Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
Obama-era US agencies wanted to use social media to control the world. If your nation does not have its own equivalent, you need one.https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-uganda-election-facebook-idUSKBN29G14MNote: Fediverse syndication would be a good option, since you could have custom filters for each node to accommodate national customs through censorship.https://newatlas.com/what-is-the-fediverse/56385/This is the easy way to get on the Fediverse with the shortest learning curve and highest tolerance for Open Discussion:https://freespeechextremist.com/main/all?utm_source=amerika.org
(DIR) Post #A38G91VRf0XjwoNIqu by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T15:37:40.761256Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@amerika If someone had an instance that blocks loli and nnia, etc., I would suggest it to family and friends.As it is, they're better off on facebook or whatever. At least there they're stuck with people who are like them and aren't anonymous. Being exposed to this much degeneracy I think, would bring many people lower, rather than making them stronger or healthier-thinking.
(DIR) Post #A38GvFFtqOiKUS66jo by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T15:46:23.660698Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Orakel That's a good point. I would run a node that filtered out a few others, like the loli and spinster types, plus of course insane people like quodverum. Normies need... easy, and simple. They are not interested in the interface or infrastructure like nerds are.This is hard for nerds to understand.
(DIR) Post #A38HQtOwdHjdyfQ2EK by clayvaulin@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T15:52:06.833687Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Orakeli think an instance with strict sfw rules for its own posters, that federates with everyone while filtering most things from the global feed would be good. that way normies could only see nsfw or controversial opinions if they sought them out@amerika
(DIR) Post #A38I2S3WkbSEAgJJh2 by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T15:58:54.047443Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@clayvaulin @amerika I don't know what sfw is. I am not computer literate for the most part. I think of what I would want my children exposed to, and if content is just filtered, like children, people will seek out the worst of what is available.The Left isn't wrong in their belief that people are to be led to the correct conclusions. The Left just keeps leading them off a cliff and telling them they'll spout wings and fly when they do.Most people will go along and jump, because death is preferable to being an outcast.
(DIR) Post #A38IAqAF05ndG5S1Ls by Secftblgirl@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T16:00:25.068548Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Orakel @clayvaulin @amerika SFW =Safe for work
(DIR) Post #A38IArMgXJLcyyHTO4 by mar77i@gleasonator.com
2021-01-11T16:00:24.336258Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Orakel @clayvaulin @amerika SFW is about what you’d want to expose your coworkers to. Then again, nowadays this might be impossible to determine with all the politics.
(DIR) Post #A38IBvcaCFHSTOE6KW by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T16:00:36.852191Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@clayvaulin @amerika Just figured out it was "safe for work."Morning brain. =)
(DIR) Post #A38IGzL3nppzRyRXc0 by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T16:01:31.662776Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@Orakel @clayvaulin It's the SFW/NSFW dichotomy: safe for work versus not safe for work.Unlike most people, you and I recognize the human genetic hierarchy, meaning the innate caste system.* Most people need to be told what to do (90%).* Some people can follow principle (9%).* Some can lead (1% or fewer).
(DIR) Post #A38IPa9onOXnxSHaaW by mar77i@gleasonator.com
2021-01-11T16:03:04.405194Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Orakel @amerika @clayvaulin Traditionally the internet differenciates nudity vs non-nudity content with “not”/“safe for work”.
(DIR) Post #A38IcFd2QrLo3OzVcO by clayvaulin@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T16:05:22.304282Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@mar77iid say gore is also part of it and violence can be as well@Orakel @amerika
(DIR) Post #A38ImvRDqBFQcSYQ6q by mar77i@gleasonator.com
2021-01-11T16:07:17.785832Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@clayvaulin @Orakel @amerika Arguably, people started talking about whether something is SFL - “safe for life” - in this context. As some of the stuff circulating out there is traumatizingly fucked up.
(DIR) Post #A38JAcxGDEjIFDqFUm by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-11T16:11:32.266815Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amerika @Orakel @clayvaulin I don't think that's genetic, I'd say it's mostly cultural. We haven't seen a single generation unindoctrinated by the state in a while. I don't think I'm thinking wishfully, I might be an optimist but discarding the cultural option seems too much.There's a literal mind control apparatus surrounded what kids see and experience. Kids are kidnapped one fourth or the day, three fourths of the year swallowing official truthisms
(DIR) Post #A38JQzL4kyHSIimaOW by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T16:14:32.473739Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@clayvaulin @mar77i @Orakel I suggested the idea of user modes a long time ago.One is family mode. No violence, obscene language, nudity, or angry words. It's for whole families, so language and imagery has to be children-appropriate.Another is random adult mode. This removes the NSFW and NSFL material.Then there's "After Dark" mode, where you can get all the juicy stuff.Having used every corner of the intertard, just about, I'll say that "After Dark" mode sounds great until you realize that it's nude losers with dirty rooms and sad death videos from third world failed states.
(DIR) Post #A38JYxUjUtX0tj6H20 by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T16:15:58.819824Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@green @Orakel @clayvaulin I disagree entirely. Genetics trumps propaganda (education, training, legal threats, economic rewards) every time.
(DIR) Post #A38KaAeq8vDXxwyBNY by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-11T16:27:21.218890Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amerika @Orakel @clayvaulin Genetics is correlated, sure, but correlation is not causation, and my point stands: those other countries are pure authoritarian shitholes
(DIR) Post #A38KtU8fw7Jrt78PZI by apropos@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T16:30:53.780871Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@amerika @clayvaulin @Orakel @mar77i take blockbots and federate them and add other tags than "blocked": you tag-subscribe to some popular people and you get a feed of tags they add to posts, including tags the people they're subscribed to themselves, and then when you get notifications the tags are collected and weighted, so you get"FUCK TRUMP OMFG" pol:1.0, lang:0.5"Anyone remember this video of the dog during early covid in China?" nfsw:1.0 gore:1.0"uwu here are my tits" nfsw:1.0 tits:0.5And then the user modes are in your frontend in the form of default and custom rules like "break from politics: no pol > 0.1, delay 1hr", so posts show up as new for you one hour after they're posted and they're hidden if they have significant weight to politics, and you get a view of the fediverse as if there was nothing political to talk about for the time being.Needs a lot of care with ergonomics, and good defaults, and probably a 'confidence' alternative to 'delay' so that you see a post if people seem to agree that it matches your filter otherwise. And you can make it fun by attaching filters to username or avatar changes, and adding emphatic filters and not just blocking ones: "of halloween @apropos" with orange background is more likely to see any posts tagged as spoopy
(DIR) Post #A38L3D5gB0DNuRN27E by mar77i@gleasonator.com
2021-01-11T16:32:38.885479Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@apropos @amerika @Orakel @clayvaulin Dude, those tits are a .3 at best!
(DIR) Post #A38L6RBcE1neUlgb8S by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T16:33:14.234158Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@apropos @Orakel @clayvaulin @mar77i I agree.I really like where Reddit was going, before they broke it, with Automoderator.You could write your own YAML-style rules.I would apply that to everything in the sub, instead of just removals like Automod does.This would enable people to adopt the type of formula you are describing, and then tweak it.
(DIR) Post #A38LjfvRMLVVV9pXCy by mar77i@gleasonator.com
2021-01-11T16:40:19.408321Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amerika @apropos @Orakel @clayvaulin You sounded a bit like the vetting process is being done by someone else. This is kind of the crux here, while as many people as possible should be engaging wrt vetting, as soon as you put those into the vetting process, they’re gonna have to expect to see bad things. Otherwise it turns out that all their filters always filter more than what they were going for - or they’d know about it.
(DIR) Post #A38M1PojzHkUkv9iU4 by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T16:43:31.968774Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@green @amerika @clayvaulin Culture is what people, or a nation, is. I am so tired of people making value judgments on culture outside of what the mass of people are. They make the culture, even here in America, where it is forced down our throats, and people eat it anyway, because they do not have something inside them that screams "NO!," and rejects it.Normal people, and children, gravitate to the lowest common denominator. If you put a chimp in kindergarten, the children will act like the chimp, not the best-behaved, most introspective child.People are what their culture is. Not individually, but as whole you can judge them that way. And every lowly culture is because they kill or allowed to be killed the best of them. People are, and gravitate toward, what they are.
(DIR) Post #A38MJhPRJtJUWq2WUC by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T16:46:50.338719Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@Orakel @green @clayvaulin So much brutal truth here:> If you put a chimp in kindergarten, the children will act like the chimp, not the best-behaved, most introspective child.Lowest common denominator always wins in any social situation. This is why our ancestors relied on hierarchy.> And every lowly culture is because they kill or allowed to be killed the best of them. I remember reading about multiple third world societies where people who invented useful things like irrigation were considered "witch doctors" and killed. Of course they were: they made everyone else look stupid.> I am so tired of people making value judgments on culture outside of what the mass of people are.In other words, behavior defines culture.Lazy thinkers rely on "education" as the solution to everything.They mean propaganda.When they say "culture," they mean ideology and obedience to social rules, like don't tell people the truth... it will just upset them.These are the values of dying civilizations.
(DIR) Post #A38N6LdZ3afNC1qOEC by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T16:55:37.778391Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
@amerika @clayvaulin @green Someone gave me a book written about the Civil War the other day, and in the introduction, explained that the United States was already dying after WWI. I thought about you. You're the only person I'd ever heard say that.I grew up steeped in this culture, while being outside of it because of our religion somewhat. None of it ever sat right with me for some reason. I don't know why, but I tried to fit in anyway. I do now too. In short conversations with everyday people, I rarely reveal anything about what I really think, because I will always be both Left and Right. I love our pretty planet and it's adorbs little animals and want them protected from nasty companies that would torture both for money. I also believe families are important, our sexes have natural roles, and money isn't as important as happiness and joy and staying in touch with nature, which actually makes us sane.FREAK. =)
(DIR) Post #A38NmUr3B13JwXFYWW by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T17:03:14.908812Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
@Orakel I think there's a business model here too.A Fediverse node that filtered out the bad stuff and allowed a "normie" Facebook-style experience might get quite a few users.Most people want to brag about stuff they have bought, drunk, eaten, or produced through sexual activity.They want an address book to stay in touch with others without having to do the work.They don't care about free speech, except as a negative right, meaning that they want to be able to say what they want and not be interrupted in doing so.
(DIR) Post #A38OIrEpUU0IdBns5g by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T17:09:05.818499Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Orakel @clayvaulin @green > I love our pretty planet and it's adorbs little animals and want them protected from nasty companies that would torture both for money.I agree, but is this Leftist? The primal Rightist position is hierarchy, meaning that we have people who can command that companies do not do such things. Also, aristocrats were the ones who set aside lots of land for nature, preserving "green belts" that exist to this day, at least on Brokeback Island (UK).> I also believe families are important, our sexes have natural roles, and money isn't as important as happiness and joy and staying in touch with nature, which actually makes us sane.Straight out of Emerson and Muir. Pure common sense.I always say that my heart is Leftist, but my brain, experience, and intuition dictate a hard-Right position. Like monarchism, traditionalism, nationalism, anti-socialism, and culture-rule. Hierarchy, including nature and the gods, basically.> the United States was already dying after WWISome of us spent way too much time on the "lost generation" literature (Eliot, Hemingway, Joyce, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Dos Passos, etc).
(DIR) Post #A38Sa7oFX2GIlWrNZo by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-11T17:56:59.131258Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@amerika @Orakel @clayvaulin Right / Left hegelian dichotomy is bullshit, libertarian / authoritarian is where it's at
(DIR) Post #A38SmPjIjN4RoqPBei by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T17:59:15.515974Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@green @Orakel @clayvaulin I disagree. Right is order, Left is egalitarian.Libertarian theory is broken, but Austrian economics is the root of all things.
(DIR) Post #A38T9N0X19NK2MPXZg by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-11T18:03:21.540933Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@amerika @Orakel @clayvaulin I don't want teleological order, I want freedom
(DIR) Post #A38THwXAoZzqXMlbfs by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T18:04:57.403196Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@green @Orakel @clayvaulin I think you only get "freedom" with order.Otherwise, the "freedom" of others causes your "freedom" to become moot.That's what we have seen in this historical cycle.
(DIR) Post #A38UP3SjYNW80Se4A4 by AnnoyingOrangeOfficial@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-11T18:17:24.991014Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@green @amerika @Orakel @clayvaulin It's tomayto or tomahto. Choose orange.
(DIR) Post #A38UQyoToIcUAMjc4u by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T18:17:47.697752Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@AnnoyingOrangeOfficial @green @Orakel @clayvaulin #monarchism FTW
(DIR) Post #A38UdddHs16GEyXG7M by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-11T18:20:01.919452Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@amerika @Orakel @clayvaulin Depends on your definition of freedom, I define it as non-aggression so freedom of others doesn't affect me negatively
(DIR) Post #A38UjsKu7FLNa1uXh2 by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T18:21:12.593672Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@green @Orakel @clayvaulin Ignores the question of social order. That creates anarchy, and your freedom goes bye-bye.It's not a trivial problem (understatement of the decade).
(DIR) Post #A38VMdd4jIhRGFtU8W by Largest@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-11T18:28:10.165244Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@green @amerika @Orakel @clayvaulin Both dichotomies suck, 1D and 2D partitions of politics in general are bullshit because you are either looking at a person's oppinion on a single statement where Stalin and an average muslim can be assigned as literally the same (lib-auth), looking at a person's oppinions about multiple statements merged together awkwardly into a single axis where Hitler and someone in a vegetative state can be assigned as literally the same (left-right), or both at once, which reduces inaccuracy slightly but that still isn't good enough to accurately represent the complicated world of politics. Obviously some statements are more important for politics than others (noone disagrees with 1=1) so we don't need an aleph-zero axis political system for a good approximation of the situation, but in order to represent politics well, merging statements should be avoided while the amount of axises should be maximized.
(DIR) Post #A38VQNGPWCQ7f94f1E by Largest@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-11T18:28:52.534390Z
6 likes, 0 repeats
@green @Orakel @amerika @clayvaulin Help how do I rate myself autistic
(DIR) Post #A38WcQBsYtggAZGMqW by AnnoyingOrangeOfficial@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-11T18:41:04.142293Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Largest @Orakel @amerika @clayvaulin @green If you watch The Annoying Orange you're guaranteed acoustic.
(DIR) Post #A38WnVNJcu2TQythYG by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T18:44:16.555170Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@Largest @amerika @clayvaulin @greenplease_be_patient_with_me_i_am_…
(DIR) Post #A38ehYpAgkMs1mbSgi by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T20:12:50.501620Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@AnnoyingOrangeOfficial @Largest @Orakel @clayvaulin @green I thought I liked acoustic music, but now it turns out, I like autistic music.Summoning - 01. Arkenstone.mp3…
(DIR) Post #A38emRPnfB6uUq3yi0 by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T20:13:43.397254Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Largest @green @Orakel @clayvaulin Hybrids are inherently recognized by the Left-Right system, including neoconservatives, fascism, national socialism, and libertarianism. In fact, we are living in one: market socialism.
(DIR) Post #A38iCeF4tXC1fdEh96 by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-11T20:50:43.892842Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Largest @Orakel @amerika @clayvaulin That optic is not interesting to me, I'm interested in lib-auth because it's the difference between nomocracy and teleocracy. All I want is to maximize my freedom
(DIR) Post #A3ANSn3oAPowvpjyC0 by Largest@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:09:04.499474Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@green @Orakel @amerika @clayvaulin Maximizing freedom requieres preventing society from breaking down into barbarism and that requieres law, what kind of law one supports can't be accurately presented with lib-auth.
(DIR) Post #A3ANhih8gFttjgFwQ4 by Sentoos@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:11:48.081096Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Largest @green @Orakel @amerika @clayvaulin because when i think freedom, i think of laws forcing people to act "civilized", or whatever the hell that means to the government making said law. "Thread locked cause y'all can't behave" and all that shit
(DIR) Post #A3AO92CYGNyk3MyQvg by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:16:42.669901Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Largest @Orakel @amerika @clayvaulin Max lib is not lawless, though it depends on your definition of liberty. I define it as non-aggression, which requires some definitions for person and private property. That's the institution (metagame or nash equilibrium) necessary for liberty to occur.If you're discussing in other terms ir other definitions, it's only natural you think I'm typing nonsense, it all depends on the set of axioms the discussion orbits around
(DIR) Post #A3AOKIr6gT9stHJg36 by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T16:18:46.711870Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@green @Largest @Orakel @clayvaulin The problem with "muh freedom" is that it does not create civilization, but it presupposes functional civilization.
(DIR) Post #A3AOQw3jq2TIDTO4Ia by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T16:19:58.756561Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@Sentoos @Largest @Orakel @clayvaulin @green freedom = equality = "good to the good, and good to the bad" = the bad win out because they are more efficient than the good.
(DIR) Post #A3AQ23VBEIfpy4UFiC by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:37:52.564630Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amerika @Sentoos @Largest @Orakel @clayvaulin I don't know what you are talking about, that's not how I define freedomIf you make your own definition of freedom and attack it instead of handling the definition I gave, you might reach statements you gave before such as "freedom is equality" or "freedom presupposes civilization", but they don't affect me because that is not the "freedom" I'm talking about.If you are uncomfortable by defining freedom as "non-aggression" and your attached to "freedom is equality", we can store those meanings into different variables, let's call them freedom.x for non-aggression and freedom.y for equality
(DIR) Post #A3AQ6LSCQWLGnr8czo by milk@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:38:39.307116Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@green @amerika @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @clayvaulin freedom is bad because it lets people do stuff i don't like.
(DIR) Post #A3AQGIVkDsmwZWXfgO by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T16:40:28.013109Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@green @amerika @Largest @Sentoos @clayvaulin What is freedom, and how do you get it for yourself while restraining others from interfering in your attaining it?
(DIR) Post #A3AQIpzci0yWzejFYG by Sentoos@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:40:54.803601Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@milk @green @Largest @Orakel @amerika @clayvaulin humans should be in caves eating nuts and berries and masturbating i never asked for any of this shit man
(DIR) Post #A3AQSZ7cI2f3Z46eEC by Sentoos@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:42:40.318915Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Orakel @green @Largest @amerika @clayvaulin my entire ideology can be summed up with "leave me alone". i believe people should stop trying to force their will onto others. i know this will never happen, but that doesn't make me any less tired of it.
(DIR) Post #A3AQVA0Q7xZIXMyfrc by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T16:43:09.168902Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Sentoos @Orakel @Largest @clayvaulin @green anarchy's a mess
(DIR) Post #A3AQdV23pr4a4AimhM by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T16:44:39.605825Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sentoos @Largest @amerika @clayvaulin @green You can not control others. You can control you. How do you attain the freedom you desire while restraining others from interfering in your definition of freedom?
(DIR) Post #A3AQl6FTrcfRWBceVU by Sentoos@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:46:01.307465Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Orakel @Largest @amerika @clayvaulin @green i just don't like heavy handed government dude stop being a dimestore philospher
(DIR) Post #A3AQsav0EVa8fKcMe8 by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T16:47:23.287775Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Sentoos @Largest @amerika @clayvaulin @green It's a question. How can you get what you want while stopping others from interfering?Wishes are great, but they don't accomplish shit.
(DIR) Post #A3AR021fqVpulWHhY0 by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T16:48:43.895204Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sentoos @Orakel @Largest @clayvaulin @green You need a replacement for it, not just to say "I don't like that, get rid of it."Some things are part of reality.Choose a good government, and this is less of a problem.
(DIR) Post #A3AR3VI5UriOOgcLTs by Sentoos@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:49:20.906510Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Orakel @Largest @amerika @clayvaulin @green it really doesnt matter what i do about it because the US's administrative power is huge however i have considered hoarding weapons and living off the grid in some remote part of the mountains
(DIR) Post #A3ARALmZFO1sw08fr6 by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T16:50:35.818017Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Sentoos @Largest @amerika @clayvaulin @green I don't think that works. It actually makes you a target. Weavers tried it. Many have. Outside the system does not work.
(DIR) Post #A3ARDfs118my6YGvwm by servant_of_the_anime_avatars@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:51:10.862687Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@green @amerika @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @clayvaulin The issue I have with your "freedom = non-aggression" definition is that it makes many , obviously dystopian, societies extremely free. Nineteen Eighteen-Four is horse beaten to death at this point, but in essence it is a society funded upon voluntarism. (Almost) nobody there is aggressing towards anyone else against their wishes, even the wars are orchestrated and mutually agreed upon by the "opposing" governments.The same concept, just much clearer, you can find in Brave New World, where the drugged up mass man is living in near perfect harmony with each other.Based on your principles of "freedom" I don't see any serious opposition that you could have to those two societies. The drugged up mindless slave is totally free.For me Freedom is made up out of two parts:- The inner Freedom. Which basically is just self control and not being pressured by outside forces into certain psychological states.- The outer Freedom. The ability and willingness to take responsibility for yourself.It is important to point out that, from my understanding of freedom, the government is quite limited in how it can restrict or grant you freedom.
(DIR) Post #A3AROU5JAzWYjne0ga by Sentoos@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:53:08.692389Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @green @Largest @Orakel @amerika @clayvaulin guys i don't care what any of you have to say about government and shit i just don't like the trap humanity has built itself into and that's going to change. please find a better use of your time.
(DIR) Post #A3ARVKjiKbmJltoGX2 by Orakel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T16:54:23.351566Z
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@Sentoos @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @Largest @amerika @clayvaulin @green Better use of time = muting people who prefer to wish for things instead of trying to find solutions that get them what they desire.Excellent suggestion.
(DIR) Post #A3ARhvY1IFTrPnLSEa by Sentoos@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T16:56:39.352188Z
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@Orakel @Largest @amerika @clayvaulin @green @servant_of_the_anime_avatars you sound like a giant neckbeard dude
(DIR) Post #A3ASjaOb0UBGLYIA1g by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:08:09.438302Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Orakel @Largest @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin (I wrote a set of definitions that I use on my theory, but I removed because I don't know if you're interested on discussing by those terms, tell me if you'd want to as I believe discussing around them allows for a more precise talk)>What is freedom (?)Freedom is non-aggression.>how do you get it for yourself while restraining others from interfering in your attaining it?With violence. Violence is legitimate when it's a response to aggression (defense).In other frameworks, subjects who commit aggression simply stop being subjects with rights, so violence against them is not aggression.
(DIR) Post #A3AT3qkfuA8QrkHWoi by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:11:49.160950Z
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@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin That's teleological, I'm not interested in planning to avoid a dystopia. If the future of a society with liberty at it's core is a dystopia, let it be then.Terms such as "dystopia", depend on a set of terms with unclear definitions, I'm not sure what you mean by dystopia, even
(DIR) Post #A3ATXrQ7z2TNcvytf6 by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T17:17:15.222477Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@green @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @clayvaulin Dystopia = extreme dysfunction, Utopia = perfect function.
(DIR) Post #A3ATbIkMqCDvFO5ZHU by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T17:17:52.670237Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@green @Orakel @Largest @Sentoos @clayvaulin So, non-aggression requires aggression.I'll skip the intermediate step.That means I support aggression. For what? For positive ends, measured in reality, and not "what most people think."
(DIR) Post #A3ATf9dudE4OAZuHtw by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T17:18:34.435920Z
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@Sentoos @Orakel @Largest @clayvaulin @green @servant_of_the_anime_avatars This isn't the hookup channel. If you're looking for giant neckbeard bears, go to #sodomy.
(DIR) Post #A3ATqElnuPaNFzsn56 by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:20:12.201135Z
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@amerika @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @clayvaulin No, aggression is initiation of violence.How does non-aggression require aggression, anyway? Did I miss something?
(DIR) Post #A3AUH9YNPbXGtfR8Mq by servant_of_the_anime_avatars@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:25:25.612297Z
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@green @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin I really don't understand you argument here.I gave two very concrete examples of societies which are far more "free" then ours, by your standard as examples for what I would consider a "dystopia".Even if a general definition is totally based upon very particular value judgments we might not share, certainly we can talk about concrete examples.And while I don't think "avoiding dystopia X" can ever be a really actualizable political goal, you should always be aware of the things that can be justified through your principles.Would you support, e.g. editing gene editing to make people more obedient to authority and less confrontational?If given the choice would you want to live a life where you are kept under the constant influence of a drug which is keeping you perfectly content, while laying in a small pod?Both of these seem, by your definition, to make people clearer. Would you support them? Or on which principle would you oppose them?
(DIR) Post #A3AUQRP4PqLArbVppY by nobit@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:27:06.792642Z
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@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @green @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin
(DIR) Post #A3AVTnLHP6w5jEu1Ts by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:38:11.195033Z
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@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin If those two scenarios you proposed involve people freely choosing things, then those are free actions. Whether I support them or not is irrelevant, what matters is that I don't stop them.I wouldn't subject myself to a dopamine inducing drug that numbs my thinking down, but I cannot stop others from doing the same.Now, a detail I want to mention. My theory is not anthropocentric, I'm not going to explain all the details but in a nutshell, I treat persons as "sapient, free beings". Let's put some examples:Let's say some gene editing occurs and some people have children that will grow up to be obedient, authority supporting beings. If they no longer possess rationality, then they are not people in my view, they are goods.If a tyrant sends these beings to attack someone, these beings are the responsibility of the tyrant, and so if they commit aggression, it is considered as the tyrant himself to have committed the aggression.There is a number of arguments that can be made for those dystopias you mention to not surge out of spontaneous, free order, namely they are not efficient. But if they were and I was wrong, and they still respected private property and freedom, then they are what the sapient beings desire, and that's all that matters
(DIR) Post #A3AVUDiDMSjLVtphq4 by nobit@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:38:59.903025Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@green @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin "muuuuh freedom"freedom doesn't exist, we live in a fully deterministic world and you're gay
(DIR) Post #A3AVdDpyGWUMVXkmOm by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:40:37.316649Z
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@nobit @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin @servant_of_the_anime_avatars Even if the universe was deterministic, that doesn't have anything to do with the freedom I defined.
(DIR) Post #A3AVgPVFLhYjYba1aK by servant_of_the_anime_avatars@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:41:11.803731Z
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@nobit @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin @green The joke is that transhumanist hyper-fascism IS the idea "mode of production", just that making the GDP graph go up, does nothing to increase human flourishing.
(DIR) Post #A3AVnhvnERMejpTbiS by nobit@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:42:30.860547Z
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@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin @green fascism doesn't make the gdp graph go upfascism is fundamentally anti-capitalist, and if some alt-right faggot like Josh tells you otherwise is because they're libertarians, not facists.fascism advocates a planned economy
(DIR) Post #A3AVpnxjmKAC1VNznM by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:42:53.910493Z
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@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @nobit @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin Authoritarianism is not as efficient as a free market
(DIR) Post #A3AVuMyDYvhXkwmsKm by servant_of_the_anime_avatars@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:43:43.544030Z
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@nobit @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin @green Hyper-fascism as in a super computer being the head of global government, with the optimization target being maximum GDP.
(DIR) Post #A3AVwKBsrrWriN6zw0 by servant_of_the_anime_avatars@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:44:04.565915Z
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@green @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin @nobit Efficiency is not a virtue.
(DIR) Post #A3AWIjliRyVjPjYj7w by wikifarms@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:48:07.762714Z
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@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @green @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin @nobit Hello my inverted gnome didn't your Prussian friends make a list of Prussian virtues once?
(DIR) Post #A3AWLrER9tA7QhTtBo by Sentoos@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:48:41.488580Z
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@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @nobit @Largest @Orakel @amerika @clayvaulin @green i only support penis-leotard pseudo-monorchal authoritarianism sorry
(DIR) Post #A3AWN6alXFm7MFWJBQ by servant_of_the_anime_avatars@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:48:54.990326Z
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@green @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin I do not think you are actually engaging with my argument here.What I am asking you is to pass judgment on certain fictional societies and all you are giving me "it is okay if it is voluntary".My entire argument is that absolutely awful and destructive actions can be taken voluntary.
(DIR) Post #A3AWb1u5lN0us6CQca by servant_of_the_anime_avatars@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:51:26.065948Z
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@wikifarms @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin @green @nobit I am sure somebody did so, although I wouldn't know who specifically.
(DIR) Post #A3AX4Dvm7ppYZSuKXI by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:56:42.033726Z
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@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin Our view of the world is fundamentally different. You want to stop what you define as evil (let's refer it as to things you deem undesirable)I also want things I deem undesirable to stop, but I don't actually go and stop them forcefully.Our second difference is that I deem undesirable unvoluntarity, and you deem undesirable specific non-virtuous things.There are also other things I don't like: I don't like poverty, I don't like parasites. Poverty solves itself via free markets, so that's one down. Parasiting stops being a viable strategy once mutual annihilation sets in. Destruction is not bad, I don't find all destruction undesirable. Creative destruction comes as an example.You want my personal judgement on those scenarios you specified? Well, they're so broad I don't know what to say, really. I wouldn't do those things, but I'm glad people can do them if they so desire.
(DIR) Post #A3AXJIcGzGn7RjySRs by wikifarms@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T17:59:25.948760Z
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@green @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin idk tell when you were once in band camp
(DIR) Post #A3AXU72gMM1CjfU0dE by servant_of_the_anime_avatars@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T18:01:23.231772Z
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@green @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin It is clear that we have vastly different views of the world, what, to me, is slavery can be Freedom to you and I can not figure out why...
(DIR) Post #A3AXz71kSvI3fLpP16 by green@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T18:06:59.512151Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin Voluntaryism is also "allow people to fail, and even to fuck up miserably". I would advice my peers to not do things that are clearly, in my view, going to cause their doom, but I'm not going to force them.I think a society in which there are certain actions that are deemed too dangerous to allow (victimless crimes), is a dystopia in itself. Anyway, I hope we can get along
(DIR) Post #A3AYcgjVe6pBhQAUHw by servant_of_the_anime_avatars@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T18:14:07.877818Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@green @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @amerika @clayvaulin I don't want to put guns to people's heads and I do not particularly care about "lower politics", like X should be legal, Y shouldn't.My issue with your position is that your notion of freedom makes you unable to distinguish between a dystopian hellhole and your voluntarist utopia.
(DIR) Post #A3AaFznanF9Q4xNwAq by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T18:32:27.754735Z
6 likes, 2 repeats
@green @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @Largest @Orakel @Sentoos @clayvaulin The problem with voluntarism is that the nice people do nice things, then the bad people take over.
(DIR) Post #A3Ac8bUmxC36aKC0dk by Largest@kiwifarms.cc
2021-01-12T18:53:31.725633Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Sentoos @Orakel @amerika @clayvaulin @green reddit