Post A348DD2x7QdAdGh2DA by samurro@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by samurro@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #A33RxA08TgacTl2Ya0 by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T07:56:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
In the recent days, due to the news with WhatsApp, I've seen a lot of people getting their loved ones away from WhatsApp (which is good), to other services like Signal and Telegram (which is not good).If you managed to convince them to try something new, why not choose something that's not centralized and proprietary software? And instead something that's based on open standards, that's open source, decentralized, federated, platform agnostic, easy to host and lightweight, something like XMPP?
(DIR) Post #A33ShywzNjz5oetXDE by Hawk1291@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:04:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund yes agreed. I'm happy to see them improving from one perspective but they are just changing owners. Why suffer all over again right? I had a similar feeling last month: https://fosstodon.org/@Hawk1291/105194052108770526
(DIR) Post #A33TuhczCLpboGATku by jb@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:18:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund Out of curiosity, how would switch to XMPP work? Host own server? Is there even free servers? Use some paid for server?
(DIR) Post #A33UWMIqvo8ufzhs3M by tzycce@linuxrocks.online
2021-01-09T08:25:06Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@hund I've given up trying to convince people move to #xmpp. People outside of privacy enthusiastic find the whole idea out of touch tinfoil type of thing. Even the ones who have the skills to run their own server if they decide to.For me Signal represents sane compromise.
(DIR) Post #A33VAFBEpiSuAWAD1U by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:32:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hawk1291 I think that's because they never really wanted to use Mastodon in the first place. That's why it's bad for them, even though they tried it and gave it a "fair" chance. :/
(DIR) Post #A33VgYfdu5vvsqnH04 by samurro@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:38:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tzycce @hund This, XMPP useage is too cumbersome for most people. I actually tried to set up matrix on my fathers phone, but its so unreliable it feels like a beta version to me.
(DIR) Post #A33VhR79U21Yjo50NM by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:38:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jb I host my own public server via @Linuxkompis. There's a lot of other free servers out there like https://nixnet.services by @amolith.Hosting your own is so lightweight it can be done smoothly on the first Raspberry Pi and even on that super cheap Zero model. :)
(DIR) Post #A33VmDRFkzytlrlEno by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:39:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tzycce I have my mom and my girlfriend on XMPP. :) My mom required some brute force convincing though. ;)
(DIR) Post #A33VpzaDDIBbxPkhFo by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:39:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@samurro @tzycce Why didn't you try XMPP with him instead? It's a lot easier and straightforward. :)
(DIR) Post #A33Vwi3Kmyf3cCZpOy by lopeztel@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:41:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund element (self-hosted) is my first choice and signal is my backup
(DIR) Post #A33W0hFxgwWcItNtsO by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:41:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lopeztel Element is part of the global warming. :P
(DIR) Post #A33W1Me9ntEyfo1ImW by lopeztel@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:41:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund *self-hosted matrix server
(DIR) Post #A33WJtEhNMakxZwh7Y by tzycce@linuxrocks.online
2021-01-09T08:45:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund sure I could convince the people most close to me. But that is not enough. The most difficult ones are hobby related group chats.
(DIR) Post #A33WL0kIwLs8XaGPSq by lopeztel@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:45:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund well, I'm pretty sure :raspberrypi: consumes much less power than a regular server, so family comms shouldn't be a problem at least. I'd have to measure energy consumption somehow.
(DIR) Post #A33WQDMNT7eb6uYMVs by jb@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:46:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund @Linuxkompis @amolith Ok, nice. I recall some 10y ago I looked into XMPP for a bit and it looked somewhat sad. Looks like it's improved nowadays.
(DIR) Post #A33WUjp6iF0Qx69GAS by Hawk1291@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T08:47:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund yeah probably has a lot to do with it.
(DIR) Post #A33XitQDvCpajKp3xY by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T09:00:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jb @Linuxkompis @amolith I've been using it for about 15 years, I have never found it lacking. It have improved with time, along with how we use our instant messaging services. :)
(DIR) Post #A33YBxcxMhjWAedfzE by sotolf@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T09:06:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund is XMPP federated, or do you have to gather all your people on one server?
(DIR) Post #A33Z9qcIYkPFnpt4xE by 0@mamot.fr
2021-01-09T09:17:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tzycce#Quicksy@hund
(DIR) Post #A33ZFtv3C5DzmaXqkK by samurro@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T09:18:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund @tzycce I used it briefly with a colleague, but I am not convinced of their applications and like I said its as cumbersome as matrix.
(DIR) Post #A33aHKFurQEzhwY2AS by lxzio@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T09:29:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund @lopeztel they do have beta version which uses golang. Only uses around 100 to 200 MB of memory. And CPU usage is also quite low
(DIR) Post #A33b7oFOb7IJmdKZ7o by wonderingdane@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T09:39:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund Isn't Signal open source?
(DIR) Post #A33kgPc74lKF6fWzxo by debacle@framapiaf.org
2021-01-09T11:26:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tzycce @hund If I suspect friends that they have WA or Signal installed on their phone, I beg them to remove my contact from their address book on the phone, because I don't want my phone number, even hashed, transferred to certain servers. It were too easy to build my social graph from that.In fact, people would need to have consent of all their contacts before transferring phone numbers, but most people don't care or don't know.
(DIR) Post #A33mOW5eSRUBt9wTGC by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T11:45:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sotolf Didn't you read the message? I said it was federated. :D
(DIR) Post #A33mcjqa6fV4bpftDs by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T11:47:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@samurro @tzycce Which applications is that? And who are they? XMPP is just a mere protocol.How is it cumbersome to sign up for an account where you have to give them a username and a password? And then use said username and password in an application or some web client. :)
(DIR) Post #A33mgzhV6b6Iw7SMim by sotolf@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T11:48:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund 😅 Maybe I should learn to read :p
(DIR) Post #A33qW9ZmRpmiCCvp7A by tzycce@linuxrocks.online
2021-01-09T12:31:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund @samurro Who will take care of the server? Will they trust the person/company? People are very suspicious of private person or small company running service. They rather rely on megacorporations.
(DIR) Post #A33xm9N1gDH3s1Xaj2 by samurro@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T13:52:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund @tzycce Conversation(s). The problem lies within if you e.g. bring one person to use XMPP its like asking to have an exklusive communications app just for you, because nobody else has it.
(DIR) Post #A340HUWbHIVKMh5jGa by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T14:21:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tzycce @samurro Someone who cares to host it? Perhaps a friend or something. If they don't have anyone, then they have to learn how to do it or just not use a online instant messenger service at all.
(DIR) Post #A340Onnc0yHEAdXDAu by samurro@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T14:22:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund @tzycce So they would go back to SMS. Not sure thats the appropriate way of thinking.
(DIR) Post #A341rX8h8QPwqveyTw by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T14:38:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@0 @tzycce Another great project is @snikket_im.
(DIR) Post #A346sMfI3xywQa7cH2 by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T15:34:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@samurro @tzycce If someone can't even decide on where to register an account, they have other issues to deal with before they're ready for the Internet.
(DIR) Post #A346w5Hsc9VngrwgM4 by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T15:35:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@samurro @tzycce How did they decide on a cellphone carrier to begin with? That seems like a far more bigger choice to do.
(DIR) Post #A348DD2x7QdAdGh2DA by samurro@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T15:49:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund @tzycce Not sure where you from but deciding on a carrier is just a joice of net quality + price. Nothing to do with trust or privacy.
(DIR) Post #A34EAcSilcnyJVtVbs by softinio@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T16:56:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund I do think Signal is a good compromise. Out of interest what are your thoughts on XMPP vs Matrix? I would have thought Matrix would be contender here.
(DIR) Post #A34QNm0VmzXl8Djq6K by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T19:13:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@softinio Both are open source, decentralized and federated, which is good. What I don't like about Matrix is the fact that both the clients and the backend are bloated, the server is complicated and difficult to host and manage. And you can't even delete your own account. Where as XMPP is easy to host and (most of) the clients and the servers are really lightweight.What I don't like about XMPP is the fact that the goof E2EE options is a bit complicated to use for a regular user.
(DIR) Post #A34RBvqnSxgE8h6zjc by aladar@mastodon.xyz
2021-01-09T19:22:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hundBarely any good clients, incompatibilities with the awful modular nature of the protocol, no realible voice chat, no reliable video calling, increased server issues...
(DIR) Post #A34RkNcSjFO66mphwW by tzycce@linuxrocks.online
2021-01-09T19:28:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund @samurro Asking someone who has no experience of servers to host a chat application seems such a weird thing to do. It is far from a trivial task and copy&pasting without understanding what they are doing is going to lead to trouble more likely sooner than later. Registering an account to a free more or less unknown provider seems like a recipe for disaster to me.I would never do that for any other reason than testing.
(DIR) Post #A34Rr1joTw4SGtRObI by tzycce@linuxrocks.online
2021-01-09T19:28:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund @samurro Choosing a carrier seems like a trivial problem to me in comparison.Gatekeeping "they are not ready for the internet" isn't helpful at all since you hardly have a choice in modern world anymore. They would be just back to square one.
(DIR) Post #A34UbpalepEC7WehlI by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T20:00:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tzycce @samurro I have never said such thing.
(DIR) Post #A34pUUgr4NX4IxqTse by softinio@fosstodon.org
2021-01-09T23:54:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund which #XMPP server implementation did you use or recommend?
(DIR) Post #A35bbjBuLkMp6asxAO by hund@fosstodon.org
2021-01-10T08:53:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@softinio I'm using Prosody, it's easy to setup, it works great and it's really lightweight. The @snikket_im project is using Prosody as well. :)
(DIR) Post #A35bj2sRYWYYBhGorI by softinio@fosstodon.org
2021-01-10T08:55:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hund @snikket_im thank you!