Post A2g59xvTo1dnQWdT16 by namark@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by namark@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #A2ee6rHl9CRe2fOHqK by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-28T08:44:51Z
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got to love the hypocrisy of modern leftist people. dividing people into groups where some have more worth than others (everything not male and white) and some are forbidden doing things.it's racism/fascism sprinkled with pink glitter.i could point out people here but that is bad style. their ability of maintaining the self image that they are _good people_ however is astounding. then, the nazis where perceiving themselves as good people too.
(DIR) Post #A2ejrfk0O1XncQkDAm by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-28T09:49:20Z
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@bonifartius > dividing people into groups> stupid bad evil leftist people
(DIR) Post #A2eqVsa4fQ7ekVeeOW by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-28T11:03:49Z
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@namark never said that i'm not doing these things
(DIR) Post #A2er0GqszZ0giE0gAC by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-28T11:09:19Z
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@namark and isn't dividing by political self association different from dividing by unchangable things like your ancestry or sexuality?
(DIR) Post #A2ewj8rg2CqWk5az2W by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-28T12:13:27Z
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@bonifartius no, it's the exact the same fallacy. Just like you do not have a gaydar or a racedar, you do not have a politicdar. When boyz are out gay bashin, they don't study the full life or medical history of every victim, they see a rainbow - they bash; a guy with long hair? - bash. Any kind of objective basis for discrimination something like racism ever had, has been thoroughly disproven. These days the racist conviction is that it's a superior religion. There is no clear way to even define races, but we must still group people based on superficial differences, cause otherwise we can't mass murder them and win.
(DIR) Post #A2ezGCblL0GVoh2mCu by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-28T12:41:50Z
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@namark maybe it's me being a touchscreen peasant.. :> but i can't quite follow you.if someone is making political statements, i don't need a radar for that, i don't have to know how they look. excluding and shitting on people just because they belong to a major group isn't better than if it happens to a minority. this kind of behaviour will only make things worse. i don't fucking care what people _are_ as long as they act decent. many modern left behaviours explicitly go contrary to that.
(DIR) Post #A2ezkXpyyKIULVAC1I by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-28T12:47:11Z
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@bonifartius I think namarks point, and it is a valid one is ...shitty left people are shitty, andmost left people are shittythese are very different thanleft people are shittyWith that said I took what you said (and I tend to voice a similar opinion) to just be more of an implied meaning. If I (and I presume you) say the left is shitty we arent trying to say 100% of the left, only that it is a pervasive problem with **most** of the left.Similarly "McDonalds is shitty, they have trouble getting orders right" I dont think someone should or would imply that I am claiming that there is no well run mcdonalds anywhere on the earth that tends to get orders correct, only that most of the time with most mcdonalds it is and will be an issue.@namark
(DIR) Post #A2f2VdgtE8701CUibg by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-28T13:18:12Z
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@freemo @namarkin the end it is about shitty people, yes. a problem is that non-shitty left-people are forced to be shitty out of fear of being canceled.there are many good ideas on the left, but with this climate of fear i can't support them as i view the behaviour of many as unethical. i can talk with right leaning people about those things and while we might not agree, it's not a BLOCKED&REPORTED&CANCELED-fest afterwards.i think my pain point is that there is no centrism anymore where ideas a discussed and compromises are made. which is imho the only way to get things to get better, without violence.
(DIR) Post #A2f2rCAAFtMB0sSxii by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-28T13:22:04Z
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@bonifartius I agree with and understand your perspective. All I was saying is that it appeared Namark was interpreting your language in a more liteal way than you were implying. Your fundamental argument isnt one I disagree with though. I will add this though, you are describing the left mostly in america and while a majority of those on the left it isnt all of the left even there. In europe and the rest of the world the left, by in large, doesnt act that way.All that said from an american perspective your perception is fair and one I agree with once you get past the literally language and realize your talking about "most of the left in america" and not "all left everywhere and all people on the left"@namark
(DIR) Post #A2f7K4u6irqMiLz2ZM by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-28T14:12:10Z
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@freemo @namark i'm no native english speaker, so i am happy for your rephrasing as i've might have written things a bit too plain :)i actually am in europe and have the feeling that these behaviours are crawling in from discourse in the USA, maybe currently in a more moderate form. things aren't discussed properly anymore, they are declared dogma.
(DIR) Post #A2f7VClRq2u2HJErrs by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-28T14:14:07Z
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@bonifartius I live in europe and the USA, it is 100x worse in the us but you are right that to a lesser extent it is creeping into europe. Depends where though, in the UK its almost as bad as the USA, the Netherlands on the other hand seems to be fairing pretty well.@namark
(DIR) Post #A2fXGdeqAH2w9QrZPE by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-28T19:02:52Z
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@freemo @bonifartius My point is that left does not exist other than what you define it as. Grouping people based on a vague political statement is no different than grouping them based on color of the skin, clothes or length of nails. You imply that the world is divided into people who are left and who are not left, and you have a natural leftdar, even more, everyone has a natural leftdar: are they *some superficial characteristic*? - bash! This is the curial fallacy imo. The tactic you employ to justify yourself here is common to the ideas that you are trying to criticize. "They bad, they discriminate, so I discriminate them". There is no they. You can criticize ideas without demonizing people, even those who at some point might in some ways appear to hold them, and trigger your enemydar. In this particular case your are criticizing something that you immediately engage in yourself.The all vs most is a distraction. Talking about a McDonalds you will be talking in specific context in which McDonalds is a well defined dichotomy. We collectively ensure it is well defined, by not allowing any random thing to be deemed McDonlads by any random party. That is the fundamental thing that you require before you even begin with any of the loosey-goosey statistics.I dare, anyone willing, to define the dichotomy of the left based on mathematical principles: define the binary relation, and demonstrate that it's reflexive, symmetric and transitive, without turning it into a tautology. In other words - show me your glorious any% accurate leftdar.
(DIR) Post #A2fXccWp2nVH1Gaudk by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-28T19:06:51Z
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@cowanon what does that even mean? enlighten me please, I hunger for shorts!!@bonifartius @freemo
(DIR) Post #A2g1ApP6ZpgDT7eGKO by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T00:37:54Z
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@namark Not everything that is definable need be definable by mathematical principles.Two important points here.1) There are universally accepted definitions for what constitutes the left2) Even if we accepted the definition of the left as arbitrary the fact remains that the vast majority of people self identify as left or right, so we can also use ones self-identification as the left as its own metric.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g2rOmJXvKXITMq4O by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-29T00:56:52Z
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@freemo @namark my limited life experience tells me that if someone declares _being_ left, it's show, will be thrown overboard as convenient, and it's likely a bully. people who act decent don't have to declare moral superiority and people aren't absolved of being shit by declaring the "correct" political alignment.
(DIR) Post #A2g30PDDIoOvFUFCT2 by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T00:58:27Z
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@bonifartius I'd say you describe 95% of the american left, 70% of the UK left, and 5% of the Dutch left@namark
(DIR) Post #A2g3DL3M4p3879neRk by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:00:50Z
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@freemo and I self identiofy as queen victoria today, politically leaning inside out. You are basically saying that the term is entirely meaningless and the whole point of it is to split people into two tribes, and as long as that happens we are golden. Yes keeping the definition vague serves that purpose quote well. My point is that for any even semi-meaningful definition that you can come up with that is not just dichotomy for dichotomies sake, you would struggle to even prove basic properties that are required for it to be a dichotomy, let alone all the other claims you make.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g3dRxJ2JBz3EQBI8 by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:05:29Z
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@namark While self identifying as queen victoria may not mean you are queen victoria I can make several correct assumptions about people who self-identify as queen victoria, namely that they are delusional (not you as this was rhetoric of course).Similarly even if we agreed the left is a fiction and that people who self-identify as left are identifying with a fictional concept, it still doesnt change the underlying assertion or make it any less valid. That is, that people who claim to self-identify as left have certain common qualities in personality among the majority of such people.So the left being a fiction, if that were true, doesnt in any way weaken the argument. The left doesnt need to be a "reality" for it to be true that those who self identify with it are often bad people.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g47hdJJPssMTUhZw by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:11:00Z
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@freemo maybe the dutch are more relaxed than germans? or maybe my sample group is simply more extreme.anticapitalists with new iphones giving you lectures are a classic example here. as are people caring about immigrants (which is important) but saying that environmental issues are not relevant with a straight face, ignoring that environmental problems are a major reason for immigration. it can really be infuriating seeing those people succeed because they scream louder.@namark
(DIR) Post #A2g4Lbu7PPVweDzIS8 by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:13:32Z
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@freemo "people who claim to self-identify as left have certain common qualities in personality among the majority of such people"how exactly does that work? what are they a hive mind? is it that they agree on something? The best you can claim is that they agree with each other on something. Now tell me what that something is, and then we can discuss whether that something can reasonably satisfy the properties of dichotomy defined on the set of all people. @bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g4PCyQ2gSOU8iNcG by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:14:07Z
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@bonifartius I cant speak to germans personally. I dont cross the border to germany often enough to say.@namark
(DIR) Post #A2g4eAZhF85BOCHjv6 by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:16:48Z
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@namark Depends on what you mean by Hive Mind. But yes thats part of it, people who identify as being on the left tend to parrot, often without bothering to understand, things that other people who identify with being on the left tend to say. More so if those people are in high regard among the left (such as being a leader in a party that likewise identifies as being on the left). So yea, group think is a big part of "how that works"And no the best we can claim is not simply agreeing on something (though there are things they tend to agree on). Personality traits, tactics used in discussion, specific phrasing without understanding the meaning of the words, are all things we can also claim is common or shared among the majority of those identifying as on the left.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g4woL88VJ1vmMQi0 by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:20:15Z
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@freemo nice, some kind of weird subspecies of hive mind parrot-humans. What a discovery you have made. @bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g524t62UBAhWl9ua by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:21:09Z
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@namark If thats how you want to summarize the left thats fine by me.. group-think (hive mind) parrot-humans isnt far off.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g59xvTo1dnQWdT16 by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:22:37Z
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@freemo those are your words, and I see little difference between those and what our fedi resident racist officiandos would claim. @bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g5KJBxawh8HGHBCK by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:24:27Z
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@namark No they were your mangling of words I stated into a new sentence, new phrase, and with new context.. you cant just take individual words someone used, rearrange them into a new sentence and pass them off as mine.. they are yours, entierly yours.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g5LROSaSHo0If9Oq by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:24:44Z
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@namark actually, it's not a new discovery but how church and politics always have worked. humans like to be in an in-group and do things which are expected from members of that group. this is well documented, a prominent example being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave_(experiment)@freemo
(DIR) Post #A2g5b9Rf5Pa4yHeScC by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:27:31Z
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@freemo you said that people who say they are left, have some kind of internal natural (not agreed upon, not societal, but natural) common tendency, that resembles parrots. @bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g5tuOLHMxZmm2jPE by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:30:50Z
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@namark Nope, thought if thats the hyperbole you want to stick to rather than bothering to have a constructive conversation, go with it.Usually I find when someone starts resorting to manipulative and inaccurate paraphrasing, especially to the point of absurdity that it is below what I'd expect their normal level of intelligence to indicate, tells me they simply have no constructive counterargument and are just too stuborn to admit their argument was a dead end.Feel free to prove me wrong and bother to actually contribute constructive comments to the conversation rather than going off into fictional manipulative rants if you wish. I obviously wont address absurdities but would be happy to continue discussion if you wish to come back to the land of maturity.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g5woeX4Yrar70CdE by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:31:29Z
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@namark see also:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_dynamics@freemo
(DIR) Post #A2g5yeokbum2voeyO0 by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:31:49Z
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@bonifartius @freemo indeed it works very well, I can see it working on both of you right now. Not what @freemo said though.
(DIR) Post #A2g64lfe2lgXvKJYJM by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:32:54Z
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@namark @freemo of course, thats the fun thing about it!
(DIR) Post #A2g67Q32tNqjjOWYYS by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:33:18Z
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@namark funny, when its the left you have some absurd paraphrasing about me thinking its a "human parrot species" or whatever nonsense... now all of a sudden that you feel you can use it as a personal attack its a perfectly normal stance when applied to us...Might want to look in a mirror your hypocrisy is showing.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g6MqGvfszfPIN8vA by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:36:10Z
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@freemo if it's a natural thing that applies to all how is that a personal attack? or do you mean it a natural thing that only applies to inferior subspecies of hive mind parrots, and find it incredibly insulting that I dare to equate you to them?@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g6gUC5TCpoizTTTU by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:39:43Z
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@freemo what is there to prove wrong?I said that only reasonable thing that you can claim is a dichotomy is some sort of an agreement between people. You said that it's not an agreement but a natural tendency that apparently only applies to a certain group of people. If you meant something else, feel free to clarify. @bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g6xdHquq3vqhLaXg by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:42:42Z
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@namark When did I say it applies to all? I never once said all people equally demonstrate group-think.That said, as I already stated (and you seem to continually be misreading things as I dont think your this stupid not to know basic english), the issue isnt that you might think I am experiencing group-think, thats not really the objection at all. The objection is that a second ago you ridiculed the very idea that a person could even experience group think (with such absurdities as calling it a parrot species or some nonsense) and then you go and use that very idea you just flamboyantly dismissed in an attempt to weaponize it against me.It isnt that you are accusing me of group-think that is the problem, its the hypocrisy that you behave as if it is an absurd idea when I posited it and then double back to use that very idea in earnest to describe me.your willingness to use hypocrisy when it suits your needs is the only issue here, not the claim itself.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g7L62ECJ6FfaE9h2 by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:47:02Z
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@namark dont tell me what I said, as I didnt say that. Quote me if you wish to tell me what I said as you clearly have an inability to repeat what I say accurately.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g7M9gu5dG5IYl3cO by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:47:16Z
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@namark you really have a problem differentiating between decisions people are free to make and reflect upon, and intrinsic unchangeable traits. we are talking about the decisions here. repeating stuff without reflecting upon it is a decision, not an intrinsic trait.if someone says "$skincolor people bad" it's targeting an intrinsic, unchangeable trait and is bullshit. if someone says "people mindlessly repeating things like '$skincolor people bad'" are bad, it's targeting a conscious decision.@freemo
(DIR) Post #A2g7YVaKVx8yfzZcie by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:49:29Z
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@freemo It's not an absurd idea in the way that it applies to all. It is an abdurd idea to think that it applies to yourself or your group any less that to any other group, just like with any natural behaviour of a human being. I thought I don't have to break it down to that level. Humans also like to eat. DId you know? It's facinating. We are talking about discrimination and dichotomy. Something you can reasonably discriminate people by. What you are saying in that context amounts to "one can manipulate people into discriminating based on anything, and that that it's good and should be perpetuated". @bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g7dASWUHcMbT8yAq by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:50:19Z
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@freemoI'm asking you, as that is my understanding. If you don't wish to speak, then don't.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g7jRssc8q0NrT0lM by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:51:22Z
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@namark Again with the inability to comprehend what I state clearly...I did not say it applied any less to my group or me, nor did I claim it applies more. I made no statements about if or to what extent I am susceptible to the effect.What I did say (but you seem to keep reading what you imagine, not what you say) is that your hypocrisy in finding it absurd to state about others, and then to use it as a statement about me as if it is not absurd, shows the weakness of your argument. As I've reiterate several times now, I objected to the hypocrisy, not the accusation itself.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g7nYH6nN8nMYkwnA by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:52:08Z
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@namark And i answered, I told you no, that does not remotely resemble my views or what I said.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g7oEtWKwp3Xr3DUm by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:52:14Z
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@bonifartius no you're targeting a superficial trait in both cases "discriminating based on skin color is meaningless" is probably what you mean, but you are falling into the same trap that you are describing.@freemo
(DIR) Post #A2g805U59MCLpnnmO8 by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:54:23Z
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@freemo than try to explain by directly addressing my points, cause what you said so far was clearly not sufficient for the oh so dumb me. If you don't wish to speak, again simply don't.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g89x5RE67ogayjwW by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:56:11Z
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@namark I have, multiple times, and each time you have come back with an absurdist paraphrasing that doesnt remotely resemble what I just said.I also didnt call you dumb, I said your pretending to be dumb and I know damn well your smarter than this but are only doing it because you have run out of constructive counterarguments to support your PoV and backing down isnt in your repertoire @bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g8MxtHY4uGwaUvXE by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T01:58:34Z
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@freemo Sure, applies to everyone, how does it create a dichotomy then? Explain to me how something that is the same for everyone is a dichotomy? Again the only way I can interpret what you are saying is that the dichotomy just exists arbitrarily for the sake of existing, cause you just want it to exist or something. There is no difference between you and the left other than that you are not left.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g8dMwIBcb9GQjBvE by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T02:01:32Z
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@freemo Sure I'm not dumb I'm just being super dumb. I will repeat the same thing in different ways ten times over if that's what it takes, language is not perfect. If you don't want to talk don't talk. @bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g8lR6sZ09qW3WhqC by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T02:02:56Z
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@namark Sure, applies to everyone, how does it create a dichotomy then?Since i did not claim it applies to everyone, your fundemental axiom that is present leading into the question is already incorrect before we get to the question. Therefore I can not answer a question that is founded on an invalid axiom. Again the only way I can interpret what you are saying is that the dichotomy just exists arbitrarily for the sake of existing, cause you just want it to exist or something.Since your base axiom that you used to construct this scenario is itself invalid any interpretation you draw from it is likewise invalid. There is no difference between you and the left other than that you are not left.That is certainly your opinion. Though I do not agree, as was already stated I see a great many differences on aggregate between those who identify as left and those who don’t. you obviously disagree, that is your right, however wrong I may think it may be. Restating it over and over though wont get you anywhere on its own.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g8u1BYJu08ibnwzA by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T02:04:30Z
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@namark Not sure why you keep saying I dont want to talk. I have replied to (talked) every comment you've made so far.Feel free to repeat the same thing in ten different ways if you wish. But so far the variations dont appear to add any new information or clear up any confusion. It seems what your saying is clear enough, just happens to be wrong by my assessment (and I have explained why at each point thus far and am happy to continue to do so).@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g8x90xfSnhrwLEPY by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T02:05:07Z
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@freemo I say you mean it only applies to some people, you say no. I say you mean it applies to everyone you say no. I confuse. Please don’t just say no to everything, tell me what you think.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g8z7gJawN0JWcyo4 by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T02:05:31Z
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@freemo I ask you to clarify and you simply say that you already did. @bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2g948YxkGHOUma01Y by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T02:06:20Z
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@namark I have so far clarified every statement you have asked me to, if you feel I avoided any such request my apologies, reiterate it and i will clarify again.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2gnBrb2vrMVpUdLdo by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T09:36:00Z
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@freemo It is my opinion that, for as much as such a thing is natural, it applies to everyone, therefore it is not a meaningful dichotomy. I would attribute it to myself as much as I would to you, I point you out in this discussion because you are the one arguing for the “common sense” of left’s existence, while I’m going against the grain. My initial point is that such dichotomy for the sake of dichotomy should not be accepted and reinforced, but questioned and rejected.Now tell me wheater you agree or disagree With the first sentance. Does the hive mind parrot syndrome apply to all equally or some especially? I argued the both points here but I guess it was too concise to be apparent.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2gnbJjnRPyuLarcMS by freemo@qoto.org
2020-12-29T09:40:32Z
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@namarkSure. I would say some people tend to be more susceptible to the group-think/parroting than others. It also may vary for any one person from topic to topic.I would say no one is completely above it, generally some will do it to some extent (be influenced by the groups ideology), but it is a spectrum. I know some people who almost completely blindly follow the majority in most situations, I know others who are the polar opposite and will disagree with the majority as a matter of course even if the majority may have a very obvious and valid point.So no I dont feel it applies to everyone equally. I do think there is some natural tendency towards it, again, stronger in some than others. But even then many people make a conscious effort to be aware of and negate that while others seem oblivious to it.So yea I dont think youll ever find someone immune to it entirely, but it is not a universal constant everyone demonstrates in exactly the same perprotion as anyone else either.@bonifartius
(DIR) Post #A2gnfg4MM2rKlYYqtk by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T09:41:24Z
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@bonifartius To elaborate on this particular case. What do you think people who seriously peddle "whitey bad", are going to justify their stance with? Biological inferiority? No, they are going to claim that circumstantially a group of people that are white has been formed that is privileged through systemic discrimination, therefor the only way fight this, circumstantially, is to persecute this unconscious conspiratory group. I'm pretty sure they will bring up exactly the same arguments and examples you bring up here, to defend the existence of the left and your persecution of it.When someone says "whitey my enemy" you shouldn't say "then you are my enemy", you should say "what the hell are you even talking about, that makes no sense". @freemo
(DIR) Post #A2gy0Ml0Lp5YUe0nAG by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-12-29T11:37:11Z
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@namark i never said "you are my enemy" but pointed out the hypocrisy and similarity to facism which worked by the same means and actions. i have every right to be pissed at this, as it's completely bullshit and actively _against_ left ideas. then you came along and tried to construct a logical fallacy around that. 💁
(DIR) Post #A2hJ26VFqtRxhOJZuS by namark@qoto.org
2020-12-29T15:32:47Z
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@bonifartius I'm sure that's what you had in mind all this time while going:> not gonna drop any names here, but modern leftie is the new nazi> the dichotomy is well defined cause it's human nature> at the same time being leftie is a decision, regardless of the fact that I just tried to justify the dichotomy by claiming that the group behaviour is natural> I meant to criticize the idea, but it's a fundamental human right to make up an enemy group and be pissed at them, so I can do that
(DIR) Post #A3IbqRTIUQFDZQtUTw by brother@kawen.space
2021-01-16T15:27:56.064151Z
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@bonifartius I don't know why some people find it healthy or useful to parse entire demographics as a singular person for the purposes of assigning blame and responsibility (e.g. all men being responsible for historical and institutional patriarchy.)It makes no fucking sense at all. It doesn't allow for individual differences in worldview, personality, priorities, intelligence, opportunity, etc. It doesn't allow for the fact that people can and do change their minds all the time, jumping one ship for another or striking out on their own to codify a new philosophy.But honestly, I'm at the point where I just let them get on with it, lol. I once saw a top virtue signalling ancom claim that Carl Jung's work was useless based on his ethnic and cultural background, and him being a "universalist" (a gross misunderstanding of his archetypes and collective unconscious models.)It's actively funny. Again, let's bring up the Nazis: to them, psychology was a "Jew science," and even the work of Jung (a non-Jew) was "tainted" by the hand of Freud (a Jew) to them.Learning to separate my hatred of Yaldabaoth/Abrahamic religion from my feelings about the specific people who have, at times, followed that dark path (usually for reasons of having been born into a culture that did so) unlocked a lot of knowledge. If I was still put off by examining the "tainted" I never would have discovered some incredibly useful things."Knowledge hath no enemy but ignorance."
(DIR) Post #A3J3pTlTHABL6qiwXw by bonifartius@qoto.org
2021-01-16T20:41:24Z
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@brother > I don't know why some people find it healthy or useful to parse entire demographics as a singular person for the purposes of assigning blame and responsibility (e.g. all men being responsible for historical and institutional patriarchy.)my take is that it's an easy way to get into an in-group.> It makes no fucking sense at all. It doesn't allow for individual differences in worldview, personality, priorities, intelligence, opportunity, etc. It doesn't allow for the fact that people can and do change their minds all the time, jumping one ship for another or striking out on their own to codify a new philosophy.logically it doesn't make sense, but from the social/emotional point it's easy social credit as long as it is accepted by the majority. maybe that's what we get by telling whole generations (myself included, i guess it has taken it's toll on my brain too..) that they are special and then fucking the brain some more with advertising a life they can never have. previously we've had the church in this role, only with different things being bad or good.> But honestly, I'm at the point where I just let them get on with it, lol. I once saw a top virtue signalling ancom claim that Carl Jung's work was useless based on his ethnic and cultural background, and him being a "universalist" (a gross misunderstanding of his archetypes and collective unconscious models.)ignoring is maybe the wisest thing to do. on the other hand i feel bad seeing the world going down the shitter and the only thing people see and do is quickfixes and throwing shit at each other. hey, we live in a time where everyone right from the extreme left is a evil nazi enabler and everyone left from the extreme right is stalin. what could go wrong! except that the ideals of both sides would get a majority of their proponents shot, while oligarchs gain more and more power.> It's actively funny. Again, let's bring up the Nazis: to them, psychology was a "Jew science," and even the work of Jung (a non-Jew) was "tainted" by the hand of Freud (a Jew) to them.people screaming "nazi" aren't that well informed in general, otherwise they wouldn't resort to time-proven tactics which reliably fail to prevent people from going even more in that direction. things like canceling & deplatforming don't work, they just create more reason to be this way.> Learning to separate my hatred of Yaldabaoth/Abrahamic religion from my feelings about the specific people who have, at times, followed that dark path (usually for reasons of having been born into a culture that did so) unlocked a lot of knowledge. If I was still put off by examining the "tainted" I never would have discovered some incredibly useful things.at least those things have a cultural significance in the western world, so knowing about them can't hurt. at least for comedic value, things like ophanim etc. ;) work by others who merely were living at times or places where those religions ruled isn't necessarily "bad" (but might well be, as with everything). i'd say that e.g. while masonry advanced by building churches, it's nonetheless rather astounding what they were capable of in those gone days.