Post A1icMaPOt5fYuoDPBw by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
(DIR) More posts by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
(DIR) Post #A1gnvFAaYVTiMK600m by fribbledom@mastodon.social
2020-11-29T11:50:44Z
0 likes, 4 repeats
The 2000-watt society:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000-watt_society
(DIR) Post #A1gnvFTjPKn5Jh3Hqi by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
2020-11-29T11:52:06.661535Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@fribbledom lowering power consumption instead of increasing power production is regression
(DIR) Post #A1goRtHIy9Ta1GnwTw by promethea@freethinkers.lgbt
2020-11-29T11:58:01.815218Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis @fribbledom You could increase real power consumption without increasing power production, via efficiency increases.I think that should be the focus, personally. At least until we can realistically consider setting up cold fusion or a Dyson sphere.Whether efficiency increases should be in the energy capture during the production phase or in usage later on is another question...And also I'm not an engineer or a physicist, so I may have no idea what I'm talking about.
(DIR) Post #A1gorKldtxlkW27wDA by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
2020-11-29T12:02:37.763924Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@promethea @fribbledom Power production is the major building block of big innovations, if you have tons of energy to spare you might start doing crazy shit>At least until we can If that’s where you focus, you’re likely never gunna get to that point
(DIR) Post #A1iZmVX1LLVHSKRqdM by Asimech@mastodon.social
2020-11-30T07:58:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis @promethea @fribbledom Obsessing over power generation to the cost of efficiency is not going to get us to that point either because climate change is too far gone now.The only power plants which could possibly catch up with the blown up waste are nuclear but they are way too slow to build.
(DIR) Post #A1iZmXHqoiYctrMlGa by Asimech@mastodon.social
2020-11-30T08:22:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis @promethea @fribbledom Also it's not like innovation doesn't happen when you have to be frugal.In fact even for the "innovation through excess" it would be helpful if the common behaviour was towards low power consumption. Because then you would need less production to hit the necessary unused capacity for whatever hypothesis they need to test.
(DIR) Post #A1iaabuTu1nhiXJRQG by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
2020-11-30T08:32:09.248559Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Asimech Innovation still happens. But the innovation is minor compared to what the increase in energy has allowed.There has been no innovation explosion as large since the industrial revolution. And that’s when we got a big jump in energy production.You can dream about low consumption all you want, it’s a shitty goal. Or rather, a goal of last resort if you’re unable to increase production.
(DIR) Post #A1ib5nuhK97fvGHvGa by promethea@freethinkers.lgbt
2020-11-30T08:37:47.871329Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis @Asimech I think that's because the industrial revolution allowed humanity to achieve its latent potential, and that potential is now being pretty well bottomed out and even adding more energy won't increase it.You need to increase the potential for innovation before further resources can actually facilitate it.
(DIR) Post #A1ibB53szjloYS6NUG by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
2020-11-30T08:38:45.117203Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@promethea @Asimech the thing is these kind of innovation explosions always follow a new method of gaining more and more energy. All the way back to fire.
(DIR) Post #A1ibOKIpdkY7aYPPGa by promethea@freethinkers.lgbt
2020-11-30T08:41:08.725915Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis @Asimech You could alternatively state that the innovation explosions always begin with a new method of gaining more and more energy, which would imply something else starts the innovation and “more energy” is just the usual first product.
(DIR) Post #A1ibV1mctRy4B8XYp6 by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
2020-11-30T08:42:20.788030Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@promethea @Asimech The thing is all the major innovations that come about use energy that would not be available with prior methods.And this is especially true with efficiency. How do you make a v1 product efficient? That makes no sense.
(DIR) Post #A1ibcPNHa1pZNACmuG by promethea@freethinkers.lgbt
2020-11-30T08:43:41.124294Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis @Asimech The new product doesn’t need to be more efficient if you have a substantial energy surplus because you already made old products more efficient.
(DIR) Post #A1ibiUBGcjE614U11E by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
2020-11-30T08:44:46.844646Z
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@promethea @Asimech but that’s not a new product, you’re just slightly improving on something elseLike a new iPhone isn’t a v1 product. But the first phone was.
(DIR) Post #A1icEQbzQd5EDKDJZ2 by promethea@freethinkers.lgbt
2020-11-30T08:50:33.737927Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis @Asimech No, I'm saying that if you used to expend a lot of energy on food production, for example, and then you invent farming and can produce a lot more food per energy expended, then you have more energy (and in this example, time and space) to use on other innovations.But if someone were just fairly close-minded and traditional they wouldn't invent something like fire or farming or engines, and if their society was close-minded and traditional then the society wouldn't *adopt* those inventions even if they did.So you need an innovative person in a forward-thinking society to achieve greater energy in the first place. A society which manages to achieve greater energy is already statistically much more likely to then use it toward other innovations.So, whence the innovative nature? That could be a more important question.
(DIR) Post #A1icMaPOt5fYuoDPBw by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
2020-11-30T08:52:01.694999Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@promethea @Asimech Yes? Don’t think that’s the point being argued tho.
(DIR) Post #A1icaEIvrrAqPjhBZ2 by promethea@freethinkers.lgbt
2020-11-30T08:54:30.226201Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis @Asimech I'm just saying we're not necessarily going to achieve greater heights just because we make a point of consuming more energy, which is how I interpreted your position.
(DIR) Post #A1icdpVO0odeewEmR6 by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
2020-11-30T08:55:07.795021Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@promethea @Asimech my point was always producing more not consuming less, if you go back to the original reply
(DIR) Post #A1id1uMTblcsfeYFKS by promethea@freethinkers.lgbt
2020-11-30T08:59:30.008836Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis @Asimech Yeah, but just using currently available power generation methods to increase power production wouldn't be likely to result in any innovations anywhere else... was what I was attempting to argue. Even finding a new power production method might not improve matters much if society is just tapped out on the innovation front.
(DIR) Post #A1id93h1JSHXdeZPM0 by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
2020-11-30T09:00:47.044712Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@promethea @Asimech Yeah, not anything crazy anyway.Maybe if we all went nuclear. But we do probably need new energy technologies to get another bump.
(DIR) Post #A1iiDtQzNftv2bCEQC by Asimech@mastodon.social
2020-11-30T09:56:55Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis @promethea So:a) In the past jumps in power production have preceded "innovation" either because before that there was a serious bottleneck of needed power. Right now there is none, except for stuff which we have _no_ hope of powering with current or incoming tech.(At least none I've heard of.)Even _if_ we went hogwild building the plants.b) Exactly what jump of energy production allowed for mobile phones? Or smartphones? It was energy _storage_ and _efficiency_ which enabled those.
(DIR) Post #A1iiL0T1dCZ2scXaK0 by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
2020-11-30T09:58:57.886515Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Asimech @promethea >because before that there was a serious bottleneck of needed powerneverthis has never been the way it workedFirst you get the spike in power. Then you get people trying shit that was unthinkable before it and innovating.How do you get off just talking out of your ass like that?
(DIR) Post #A1iihw2GH45DnOxI1o by Asimech@mastodon.social
2020-11-30T10:00:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis How about you don't assume I'm a complete moron for a second and think if perhaps you misunderstood what I was getting at?
(DIR) Post #A1iihwIZIR7wbyaJRg by Asimech@mastodon.social
2020-11-30T10:00:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@emilis Because I'm not the one who has been constantly assuming we can only do one of efficiency or production, mate.
(DIR) Post #A1iihwUyYJ3HESODmi by emilis@cdrom.tokyo
2020-11-30T10:03:06.171423Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Asimech All you’ve been doing is claiming shit out of your ass and now putting words in my mouth.