Post A0F9DaHSDSAjdvptmi by fluffy@social.handholding.io
(DIR) More posts by fluffy@social.handholding.io
(DIR) Post #A0EwjG6DcLujQkow3E by freemo@qoto.org
2020-10-17T03:26:37Z
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Am I the only one who feels its weird that we as humans have this unwritten rule that two people need to stick their genitals in each other in order to be candidates for raising a child. Many would assume that a marriage without romantic love would not result in as good a child as one that does... But the more I think about it the more I think it shouldnt be so hard to be close with someone in a non-romantic sense and have enough emotional respect and enjoy each other company enough that it would be a wonderful environment.But even without a kid in the picture this setup is unheard of. You just dont have two people who want to bond and live together and share a life if sex isnt in it, and good sex. Hell I've had that opinion myself at many times. But it just makes no logical sense, its not like humans cant go around having amazing sex with whoever they want, but again we just dont let that fly in this species I guess... humans are weird.
(DIR) Post #A0EyNoHk2CwYzf6uiu by olamundo@qoto.org
2020-10-17T03:45:04Z
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@freemo Raising a child is one step further than I've considered. I find it very perturbing that two people that aren't related and care a lot about each other are expected to have sex, all of the times.Its like when two people get close enough, there is this invisible pressure saying "now you f*ck". It is a pressure that seems is always there, no matter if all the parties involved are on agreement that it should not involve sex. This external "demand" seems to break the mood many times.Not advocating a no-sex policy. I'm just saying its really hard to enjoy intimate relationships without this social pressure.Maybe we've overcome sex-repression and reached a sex-expectation society? idk if it makes any sense..
(DIR) Post #A0EyaN72NCFWU35rgu by freemo@qoto.org
2020-10-17T03:47:19Z
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@olamundo Yea exactly. I dont see sex as bad, or to be avoided.. Only that it seems oddly placed as a criteria for whom you might want to spend a lifetime with. I enjoy my time with people I've never had sex or was interested in sex from them more than most people I've had sex with.It makes more sense to just be around who you like being around, and fuck who you like fucking, and who cared if or when the two overlap or not.
(DIR) Post #A0F485ygxAxERUcivo by freemo@qoto.org
2020-10-17T04:49:31Z
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@olamundo I have not, I'll check it out thanks.
(DIR) Post #A0F9DaHSDSAjdvptmi by fluffy@social.handholding.io
2020-10-17T05:46:43.643166Z
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@freemo It’s an interesting thought. Try thinking about what it really means to enjoy company, especially over a long term.
(DIR) Post #A0F9MlFgnFqmHEO1Wy by freemo@qoto.org
2020-10-17T05:48:10Z
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@fluffy I have a few people whom I'd be very happy to spend a lifetime with and have no sexual interest. Though to be fair the more I enjoy being around a person the more attractive they will look, so it might make sex less of a barrier. but it is hardly the central and defining quality of spending time with someone.
(DIR) Post #A0F9hkAM1hc8zQtdL6 by fluffy@social.handholding.io
2020-10-17T05:52:05.472775Z
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@freemo Have you talked with any elderly folk about what it’s like to live with someone for 30 or more years? Although for sure someone pleasing on the eyes is more pleasant, it seems that mutual cooperation seems to be what really causes lifelong partnerships. My understanding is that many of these, despite having children, were effectively platonic and constructs more of economic necessity and societal demand than romance. In truth, I suspect marriage and lifelong partnership as a romantic pairing is relatively novel, historically speaking.
(DIR) Post #A0FANI0r5cd7pwGQAi by cy@fedicy.allowed.org
2020-10-17T05:58:49.239582Z
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@olamundo @freemo I can’t help but feel like people talking all about how pressured they are to have sex (in totally unquantifiable ways) are just trying to make themselves feel better about people who can’t get any. “Oh no, I’m not ignoring their problems, and only thinking of myself. Actually, those people should consider themselves lucky!”
(DIR) Post #A0FB8pMiu2B6tA9zu4 by cy@fedicy.allowed.org
2020-10-17T06:07:12.204233Z
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@freemo Well golly, I for one think that parents have no right to raise their own children, considering their track record of fucked up indoctrination, abuse and domestic violence. Just rotate children randomly at birth! At least then you can raise them with your head, rather than the feelings in your gonads. As a bonus, you won’t be the one who has to teach your little baby teenager about the birds and the bees!OK seriously though, I don’t think a majority of birth parents fuck up their children. Most parents are… probably fine at raising them? I don’t know the statistics really. But yeah, more oversight that isn’t reserved only to the one whose butt they came out of is definitely a good thing. It’s not weird if you feel that way.
(DIR) Post #A0FC84mYCNwsMoRjoe by freemo@qoto.org
2020-10-17T06:19:02Z
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@cy @olamundo Who said anything about being pressured to have sex being an issue?The part I find counterproductive and even puzzling in terms of human nature, is that without an element of sex any such venture would seem insufficient to both you and the child.My concern has more to do with the odditiy of seeing sex as a requirement for raising a child than any concern about pressuring two people to have sex if they happen to have a child. Typically people wouldnt respond by pressuring them to have sex at all, the response would be more like "Is it right to raise a child in a loveless marriage, your hurting the child staying with someone you dont love", implying romantic love. If anything they would be discouraging the relationship from continuing in that scenario rather than pressuring the people couple to have sex to legitimize it (which isnt how most people would approach it I dont think).
(DIR) Post #A0FDcW59MX5Pg6E0y8 by olamundo@qoto.org
2020-10-17T06:35:56Z
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@freemo @cy Maybe mutual care and respect is the main component for parenting, yes.
(DIR) Post #A0FFd1ijvmFViB77qK by freemo@qoto.org
2020-10-17T06:58:20Z
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@olamundo really should be the only goal.@cy
(DIR) Post #A0FMd0pTwaJKcuCwTo by josemanuel@qoto.org
2020-10-17T08:16:48Z
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@freemo The way I see it, sex (in a relationship. Not talking about one-night stands and the like) is just friendship taken to the extreme. So it makes sense for it to appear the closer you get to someone.I guess the idea is that these relationships, by their very nature, are more stable than others, and that should be useful when raising a child.There's also the fact that sex places a responsibility on the people involved (at least it does on me. Maybe I shouldn't generalise) to care for the other person even after the relationship ends.@fluffy
(DIR) Post #A0FMrWR9Dzbsi3kDVA by freemo@qoto.org
2020-10-17T08:19:26Z
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@josemanuel But is sex just friendship taken to the extreme? You exclude one-night stands from that assertion. So clearly sex is sometimes less than friendship, and sometimes more than friendship. So is that really saying anything at all, its basically just saying "some of the people I have sex with are very close friends to me, some are not"@fluffy
(DIR) Post #A0FQJY4z0kgLm5QtI8 by josemanuel@qoto.org
2020-10-17T08:58:08Z
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@freemo Yes.Let me explain further: Let's assume there are two kinds of sex: One based purely on physical attraction, and another that sort of grows organically on you through the development of an intimate relationship with another person.Neither is better than the other. And the first kind does not exclude a genuine bond with the other person. It's just that it didn't come from it, but it might develop into it.My point is that a relationship based exclusively on physical attraction or sexual compatibility is not as stable as the one based on bonding, and thus it may not be as appropriate for raising children.Now you might argue: “Well, what makes a regular friendship less stable than the kind of extreme friendship you talk about?” That's where the part about sex placing a responsibility on one comes in. One can't break such a relationship just like that. Not me, at least. There has to be a VERY compelling reason, because the relationship has reached a point where its loss would be a huge blow to the way one lives one's life up to that moment. Expectactions of how it was supposed to go suddenly fly out the window. Divorce is, again, an extreme form of this phenomenon.So, my answer to your comment is: Yes. Having sex is just an action and it is independent of why we do it. But the reasons why we do it make the act itself have different consequences.@fluffy
(DIR) Post #A0FR0UPEXoauplNeQy by freemo@qoto.org
2020-10-17T09:05:50Z
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@josemanuel Sure, obviously thats what I figured you meant.. but im still not sure its saying anything useful when you really think about it.I mean, sure, sex can have varying degrees of meaningfulness and that can often be a reflection of how closely connected you are with the person. I'm just not sure if thats really saying anything that wouldnt apply to any other activity.. consider if i reward it for something else."lets assume there are two kinds of conversation: One based purely on an interest in the subject, and another that grows organically on you through the development of an intimate relationship with another person"The thing is, "sex" isnt the unique element here, the truth is, when you have a special and intimate bond with someone, even if there is no sexual or romantic element to it, then many activities can become quite special and go well beyond an ordinary friendship.I do agree that sex adds an element of trust and relying on the other person for some element of safety, it puts you at risk of STDs for example. So there is at least some need for a level of intimacy that comes with trust if nothing else. but then again so does riding on the back seat of a motorcycle with someone.Even the "One can't break such a relationship just like that".. i mean sure thats true, but again I dont think it has much to do with sex.. When you have a close meaningful relationship with someone sex has little to do with how easily you can break such a relationship. It should be unthinkable regardless of sex, if the relationship is truly meaningful anyway.@fluffy
(DIR) Post #A0FhlShaIQ8KQTNsDg by 2ck@qoto.org
2020-10-17T12:13:40Z
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@freemo certainly not the first... co-parenting with a surrogate mother is definitely a thing
(DIR) Post #A0FxtHfomYV1nyJGCG by namark@qoto.org
2020-10-17T15:14:19Z
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@freemo Sex is natural, so the question is not why you must, but why don't you? Why aren't you guys eating that pizza that's lying right there in your fridge for months or years? Like what's the deal? Why so picky? Nobody has a freaking clue what would raise a child how, so people are understandably paranoid.
(DIR) Post #A0G0lrhPFuYh5ACrqq by olamundo@qoto.org
2020-10-17T06:16:57Z
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@cy @freemo I am sorry if I came out that way. What I think is actually that an oversexualized society also has that effect of making some people feel wrong or left out.Also, because people try to have sex in the way that is presented to them in extremes, such as porn and romantic movies, they end up frustrated.Someone may not find a ripped, strong man to have wild sex in every single position with, nor an elegant, perfectly dressed and made up woman to spend a tastefuly erotic evening with.Sex should not be an obligation, neighter should there be a correct way or timing for doing it (as long as there is comunication between the sexual parties).Of course, some jackass can use this subject to brag or even to get laid - but that is true for any subject/stand. Doesn't make it moot.
(DIR) Post #A0G0luiE3JzqQZc42q by cy@fedicy.allowed.org
2020-10-17T15:46:45.457710Z
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@olamundo @freemo It’s okay I’m not upset. I’m sorry if I’m coming off as too confrontational. It’s just something I run into a lot.I don’t think people are oversexualized. If anything, that’s used as an excuse to make sex forbidden, claiming it’s harmful or a bad influence. The funny thing about porn and romantic movies is I don’t have to watch them. It is a problem that it’s so extremely normative, in that you can only find one kind of porn, but that means we should be making more, not less. Sex should not be an obligation, but our biology gives us those urges anyway, so there’s no reason to fall to the delusion that we can undo puberty and happily live chaste lives. It’s a healthy activity that people don’t do too much of, so worrying that we do is just needless guilt. Especially when it makes people with those urges feel like they’re having them on purpose, or choosing to be unhappy.
(DIR) Post #A0G1PWwJrGaAHV5zzU by cy@fedicy.allowed.org
2020-10-17T15:53:56.625636Z
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@freemo @olamundo Well, I agree. And I’m certainly full of respect for people who can adopt, who aren’t just trolling for victims they can abuse without consequences. Honestly I do suspect there are some anti-neglect instincts about biological offspring, but very weak in humans. So there is a (very weak) argument for people to raise a child because they had sex. Mostly people just need the freedom to do it, and oversight and education to make sure they’re not doing anything horribly wrong, whether their child is a product of their sex, or not.
(DIR) Post #A0ISfnBaJDOeNc8PYW by mikelga@qoto.org
2020-10-18T20:08:37Z
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@freemo bufff... Romantic, good sex, genital stickment. Forget all those words there is no real romantic relation, good sex, enough sex, children are expensive but cars, houses, drugs, alcohol, amusement etc are expensive too and everyone have some of then.I think couples have to be very close friends, real friends. A person you can trust and the other can trust on you too.Do not imagine you are having sex until you realize that you are having it. This could be your best sex if you do not expect to have it and you don' t expect to have it good. That is why it is that hard to have good sex, even have sex.Romanticisme, toxic waste hehehe.Have children is the very hard decision. Life time comitment but for me was my very best decision, almost the unique good decision. HeheheDo not hesitate, stick to your mate, stick to life.
(DIR) Post #A0JHdtHzk0KCONz2tU by musingsole@qoto.org
2020-10-19T03:50:00Z
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@cy @freemo @olamundo Reading through the thoughts here, I think there is a large emotional component of parenting that's being ignored out of naivete. And it's not just that there are hormones and biological mechanisms that reprogram parents brain in the run-up to the birth (though there is that, and probably similar mechanisms that we don't know of).But ignoring that, as you alter your life for a newborn and then care for the child, your internal, life-narrative starts to define your self by that child. It's utterly unlike getting a hamster one day and similar but infinitely more than getting a dog. (But also, like not because the average response isn't the same as an individual response. So of course there are individuals who don't develop this attachment for various reasons.)
(DIR) Post #A0JHdtV6xEoh347WL2 by cy@fedicy.allowed.org
2020-10-19T05:39:55.799078Z
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@musingsole @freemo @olamundo I’ll be honest with you, if my parents had treated me like a hamster, and didn’t worry so much about being proper empathetic hard working devoted parents attentively raising me as carefully and correctly as possible, I probably wouldn’t be as fucked up as I am today.
(DIR) Post #A0kUw0B86i7RU7G95s by musingsole@qoto.org
2020-11-01T04:04:26Z
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@cy @freemo @olamundo > Can human beings that do/don't love each other romanticly, that do/don't have sex with each other, take care of another human being that may be or not be the offspring of said human beings?That's obviously true in countless variations. But it's also an abnormal situation by it's nature. Any particular arrangement after the average situation of parents raising their own children would itself be so minuscule of a statistic that it's broadly only worth talking about at a societal level under one category: orphans. And orphanages certainly exist that are staffed by individuals who would otherwise be strangers. Though no one seems to be advocating these situations as an ideal childhood.
(DIR) Post #A0kUw0LlTAcs16Edfc by cy@fedicy.allowed.org
2020-11-01T08:46:05.477320Z
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@musingsole @freemo @olamundo Orphans have the problem that exploitive parents looking for slave labor or unwilling fetish fuel like to snatch kids up in bulk. Not really a fault of the orphanages, who try pretty hard to ensure parents are legit with the extremely limited budget that they have. More funding to child protective services would really help there, more than going after orphanages I think.What we need is not more parents snatching kids out of orphanages, but more oversight and checks to the power parents hold over their children. You shouldn’t have the power to abuse children and get away with it, not even if you try to call it “raising your own children” to scare people away from saving them from you.Either that or orphanages designed to raise children themselves, not just temporarily house them until some rando comes along looking for more fodder to feed to their death bondage cult they call Christianity. At least for orphanages, there’s some public oversight.
(DIR) Post #A1BbqFGsZ1M6d6ED9E by musingsole@qoto.org
2020-11-14T04:18:57Z
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@cy @freemo @olamundo The pedo-angle never occurred to me as to why adoption systems are so strict. I just accepted it and didn't think on an understandable cause. Thank you :)
(DIR) Post #A1BbqFcVGceXiALTqy by cy@fedicy.allowed.org
2020-11-14T10:40:40.759362Z
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@musingsole @freemo @olamundo Honestly, I believe orphans have way, way less of a chance of being molested than people raised by their own family. The vast majority of kid diddling happens between family members, because pedos can’t just snatch kids from orphanages. They have to be filthy rich first, with connections to the underworld, and pay out the ass to the slave traffickers who find it easier just to scoop up poor kids in Asia, than trying to fool CPS. It’s a lot easier to just “be a parent” and then nobody ever checks to see if you’re too hands on in your sex ed.
(DIR) Post #A1C7tHR8AOSmkOVx1E by freemo@qoto.org
2020-11-14T16:39:31Z
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@cy I tend to agree@musingsole @olamundo