Post A0EHA8HaajLCvpGrTM by gassahara@mstdn.io
(DIR) More posts by gassahara@mstdn.io
(DIR) Post #A0EHA8HaajLCvpGrTM by gassahara@mstdn.io
2020-10-16T19:05:25Z
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@neauoire that's one way of solving data provenance, what do you think about lanier's idea of selling your data to companies (instead of they stealing it), to me both (nelson's idea of copyright forever and lanier's idea of your data is something to be sold) seem to have something wrong... but from the engineering point of view seem so atractive
(DIR) Post #A0EHAM1nUF1lYtzRnk by IRC@fedi.absturztau.be
2020-10-16T19:40:54.628582Z
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I personally have a good grasp on what says he demoed years ago watching his Youtube series:https://invidious.snopyta.org/channel/UCr_DXJ7ZUAJO_d8CnHYTDMQBut I agree with @neauoire, there should be a dummies guide to implementing one. Email him to see if he can publish one, or a repository if he still has one:https://xanadu.com.au/ted/My personal philosophy is: If you can't demo it, it doesn't exist.
(DIR) Post #A0EJT5Yj8qHztYSCB6 by gassahara@mstdn.io
2020-10-16T19:51:16Z
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@IRC @neauoire so, di he explain how does it work? am i right in my apreciation (table of pointers to content in remote sites) or definitely wrong? "The Xanadu model has always been very simple: make content available with certain permissions; then distribute and maintain documents simply as lists of these contents, to be filled in by the browser (in the same way that browsers now fill in GIFs)." from:https://xanadu.com/nxu/. Or does the demo work different than his idea of hypertext?
(DIR) Post #A0EJT5rA2J2Coj4uuW by IRC@fedi.absturztau.be
2020-10-16T20:06:51.991577Z
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@gassahara tl;dr possible now, weak realistic compromised implementations then.I'm reading the other thread @neauoire was discussing with the @enkiv2 and I can tell you as well from experience it's been revised and revised, and revised again.I stopped paying attention 6 years ago as I had to attended to personal matters, like my Named Data Networking project, and several proposals from businesses asking for my help with several loses of life. My best description of his idea is basically an address book of address books of address books that lead to the location of stored words.His ideas are possible today with signed homomorphically one way functions to not only describe the unique computer in the planet (which by the way, will perish in a drop puddle) that was used to write that paper with that author at that time, but describe it enough in the state relative to the neighbors it was able to contact to notify _it's my work you can copy that I own_. This accounting the near possiblity of _coincidence in our observable universe_ esp. with memes.
(DIR) Post #A0EKk4ZQAfYXhnROdM by gassahara@mstdn.io
2020-10-16T20:15:56Z
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@IRC @enkiv2 @neauoire that's exactly how i read it, i don't (really don't) understand the concept of copyright but frankly the web that we have failed to group of specialists that gave their work to humanity and now is being capitalized by companies and enterprises, the work of translators for example that fed google's algorithm, and musicians, authors and artists whose work was capitalized by distributors, i can't help but being seduced by nelson description of exactly these cases
(DIR) Post #A0EKk4lpQXTsKHFIyO by IRC@fedi.absturztau.be
2020-10-16T20:21:09.005463Z
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@gassahara Don't sue me, but intellectual property is bald face lie. Ted's and my network vision of content/words align because we both believe everyone should have a copy of everything, especially if you can't read (encrypted). That way _nothing is lost_, but searchable by the neighbor that kept a copy.But like I said, his Xanadu while idealistic, it is now truly achievable mathematically, now it's getting something implemented I can keep in my pocket until a thief steals my memex and drops on the toilet. [Realist if it wasn't blatant.]@enkiv2 @neauoire
(DIR) Post #A0EMeZYkF1TRzGd66C by gassahara@mstdn.io
2020-10-16T20:34:08Z
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@IRC @enkiv2 @neauoire I agree. But do you think we need a have a way to reward specialists that put knowledge on the net (of which everyone have a copy), since every other specialist is being rewarded? or is this an outdated idea also (i remeber Mc Carthy objections to Stallman whose idea was that every content on the network be accesible to which he replied: my daughter is a writer, how is her work rewarded when she puts it on the network?, remembering than in Stallman ideal)
(DIR) Post #A0EMeaoNaNZfs2x66i by IRC@fedi.absturztau.be
2020-10-16T20:42:29.700921Z
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@gassahara specialization is like a funnel: the more people look for a specific focus, the less the demand will be there, the less willing readers, the less willing paticipants.You want to target the common joes of the world to use your fun thing, and use it well.That way, even a stupid hillbilly that solved world hunger can publish his video log of his accidental fertilizer that reforested the middle east.Let demand & supply lead what people want to connect to and observe.Did you read how rubber was innovated?@enkiv2 @neauoire untag?
(DIR) Post #A0HKbUzwzjPW1RAtpA by gassahara@mstdn.io
2020-10-16T18:51:44Z
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@neauoire there is another aspect, the machine that have the /original/ material have a reference to the program using it automatically (for example it has a copy of the movie that uses the part video) this is what have been impossible to achieve even now...
(DIR) Post #A0HKbVHfvpaYuPT3S4 by samizda@ni.hil.ist
2020-10-17T02:21:36Z
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@gassahara why is it impossible though? i think the webmention service already addressed it in some way: https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/
(DIR) Post #A0HKbVURANnTXzRFLM by gassahara@mstdn.io
2020-10-17T02:27:28Z
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@samizda two way links update the pointer automatically, the hypertext program knows all forms in which the pointer is being referenced, in the example the author making the video doesn't notify manually to the author of the part of the video used, this is done automatically not by the program that makes the video but by the hypertext system
(DIR) Post #A0HKbVfmUCs47AkJ1c by samizda@ni.hil.ist
2020-10-17T02:34:08Z
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@gassahara i see what you mean. i imagine that if the hypertext system takes over, then maybe programs will implement hypertext-based asset store... (but that could be another kind of hegemony)
(DIR) Post #A0HKbVr7o1wegM3Mhs by gassahara@mstdn.io
2020-10-17T02:42:34Z
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@samizda that is what should happen, it doesn't have to be hegemonic, there could be data shared between different systems making different pointers to the same data (not talking about copies but to the same data).
(DIR) Post #A0HKbW4azwijM8M7hg by gassahara@mstdn.io
2020-10-17T02:44:35Z
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@samizda Ted has said that the original hypertext system is incompatible with the web but that there could a /version/ of the system, i don't see why not, RSA signed data could be copied maintaining data provenance and javascript methods would be sufficient to provide context awareness. I question to be asked in this network is if such a system could be implemented on top of gemini
(DIR) Post #A0HKbWKC3xCI8Vea12 by samizda@ni.hil.ist
2020-10-17T02:56:41Z
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@gassahara i'll take a look at gemini, the concept seems interesting. "hegemony" is not the exact word... i am concerned that if every piece of data have a unique and only presence in that system, then data storage and security would be a problem. (or maybe i just haven't read enough about xanadu)
(DIR) Post #A0HKbWVXNmGshgxdhI by gassahara@mstdn.io
2020-10-17T03:07:02Z
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@samizda that is definitely an issue since in that time security was not a thought, was not a thing actually :D, and as @IRC mentioned if there is only one copy of the data on the system, that piece of data *will* be lost, i think that can be solved by copying content and signing it, but data provenance and two ways links are separate from the whole unique and only presence in the system thing
(DIR) Post #A0HKbWlUQT21VAQNYu by IRC@fedi.absturztau.be
2020-10-18T07:03:38.627279Z
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@gassahara my brain is farts today.What are particularly referencing me in regards?Security is handled _today_ by homomorphically signed handshakes of _this entity_ is real and did _f(g(x)) == even_key()_. You don't have to be able to read a block of data to prove it belongs to someone in the wider known net, so that when you log back in with your key, you can tell you hemisphere away neighbor: “Hey that's my encrypted blob! Thanks for the copies of the copies bros! Now I can read my secure fanfic dairy in peace with this new dumb phone I bought in Bangladesh!”Basically twisting the pyramid of security: you don't have to care everyone in the planet has a copy of your entire existence on your machine, because with a simple flag, your private data is only unlockable by your personal secret paraphrase with your secret key you hang in your secret pocket.Also, I will never tell you all the secret shit I keep in cat pictures. I just know my daily consumption of anime will keep me entertained enough to host a few bytes of shit-I-don't-really-give-a-fuck-about-but-will-store-anyways-for-common-weeb.Not talking about Xanadu btw.@samizda