Post 9yekNtSInktkIlPTuK by eal@social.sakamoto.gq
(DIR) More posts by eal@social.sakamoto.gq
(DIR) Post #9yehTG1q0ETltdtiLY by tuxcrafting@fedi.absturztau.be
2020-08-30T17:54:04.724922Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
timezones are annoying
(DIR) Post #9yehWQCadPXWJkR4Jk by Rape@traboone.com
2020-08-30T17:54:41.214599Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tuxcrafting If we lived under Communism we could get rid of it.
(DIR) Post #9yehaEtIdBvkOYEVea by rick@fedi.n0id.space
2020-08-30T17:55:22.491774Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@tuxcrafting utc shoud replace all local times
(DIR) Post #9yejEsmxoMEvfoDJK4 by normandy@biribiri.dev
2020-08-30T18:13:55.540717Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tuxcrafting it's a necessary evil when you're on a spinning ball in space. Though we could make it less annoying by getting rid of things like daylight savings time.
(DIR) Post #9yejMt1IpqQMhujlXE by Moon@shitposter.club
2020-08-30T18:15:22.584832Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@normandy @tuxcrafting Everybody has smartphones, the clock on your phone should just use the GPS to determine the exact time of day for your precise location, so that noon happens when the sun is perfectly overhead.
(DIR) Post #9yejWKTC99KeRpHnjE by normandy@biribiri.dev
2020-08-30T18:17:04.640477Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Moon @tuxcrafting It'd be pretty annoying to schedule things, even more so than our current system.
(DIR) Post #9yejfdVcjF7O6RrO7c by Moon@shitposter.club
2020-08-30T18:18:46.097704Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@normandy @tuxcrafting people should be more flexible, in some places they call this "Indian time"* when you just show up for things "whenever".* I have also heard this called: jamaican time, mexican time, and mormon time.
(DIR) Post #9yek78v63HZjLBtJ2W by wowaname@anime.website
2020-08-30T18:23:43.128105Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Moon @normandy @tuxcrafting common in south america i believe
(DIR) Post #9yekNtSInktkIlPTuK by eal@social.sakamoto.gq
2020-08-30T18:26:43.504639Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@normandy @tuxcrafting I sometimes fantasize about the whole planet using UTC. It's just numbers anyway, people would get used to it.
(DIR) Post #9yekTvMYcgWjxFbAsS by Moon@shitposter.club
2020-08-30T18:27:51.346643Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@eal @normandy @tuxcrafting I'm trying to just covnert my brain to 24-hour time, but it's been a year and I still have to always translate to 12-hour time in my brain.
(DIR) Post #9yekYJSIzMk5pqNbbE by shpuld@shpposter.club
2020-08-30T18:28:37.945204Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eal @normandy @tuxcrafting yeah but you'd never know if someone else is talking about morning or evening or what without calculations
(DIR) Post #9yekn1GospRvmK1JJY by wowaname@anime.website
2020-08-30T18:31:15.214576Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Moon @eal @normandy @tuxcrafting i wish my microwave could use 24 hr time
(DIR) Post #9yekwXxQiq6LlKUfdw by eal@social.sakamoto.gq
2020-08-30T18:32:58.957116Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Moon @normandy @tuxcrafting Hm, both are about as comfortable for me, but I learned to use them as a kid.
(DIR) Post #9yel4lexf6MSZjm7f6 by eal@social.sakamoto.gq
2020-08-30T18:34:28.773425Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shpuld @normandy @tuxcrafting Not sure if I get it, like if someone on the other side of the world is talking about their morning?(The day "switching" while the sun is up somewhere would be a big drawback actually.)
(DIR) Post #9yelHcks53eUirfb1c by shpuld@shpposter.club
2020-08-30T18:36:48.457414Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eal @normandy @tuxcrafting if someone says "I had to wake up at 8" it loses its meaning if you dont know where they live
(DIR) Post #9yelvSJIKjDxublRxo by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T18:43:56.080623Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@normandy @tuxcrafting >it's a necessary evil when you're on a spinning ball in spaceIt isn't. We decided that we want 12:00 to be noon and 00:00 to be midnight on the whole ball. Or rather old sun-based clocks did. There's little reason why one place's morning couldn't be at 06:00 while some other country has their morning at 14:00. We'd just have to get used to it.Clocks vary around the world because early clocks were linked to the sun. As such the clock was slightly different in every location.
(DIR) Post #9yema9UBE83POzGGi8 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T18:51:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting I think it's more useful to have hours linked to the daily cycle of local community. For example, working 9 to 5 feels the same regardless of your timezone AFAIK, but in your system some people would call it 10 to 6, other 12 to 8, referring to the same experience.
(DIR) Post #9yemxwgaT5OiebPVKa by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T18:54:57.471783Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting That already happens, I work 7 to 3. "9 to 5 job" is just an expression.We're used to this time so we'd find it weird as fuck, especially for the first couple weeks or months. But the first generation to grow up with the clocks like this wouldn't bat an eye.Changing a country to use UTC clocks wouldn't be much different than making the US switch from Fahrenheit to Celcius. In fact it'd maybe be even easier since the scale is the same. For the average person it just means they have to get used to a new "Freezing point" and "Boiling point"
(DIR) Post #9yen7KYZ5SnLIG8Jd2 by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T18:56:34.039150Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting And it's not just a programmer's dream to have UTC clocks everywhere.In today's age where people work and communicate often near exclusively instantly via the internet and across borders, having easily comparable timestamps across countries is already more important to most people than the clock matching the sun. An example is if you work at a company in the UK that's open from 08:00 to 16:00, but you have a trade partner somewhere in Asia that you often work with. It's far more practical to know that it's open from 14:00 to 22:00 than "08:00 to 16:00 but in asia time" is. In fact most employees at your company have probably already converted the time into UTC and memorized it as such.
(DIR) Post #9yenNHqUvvmnWH86O8 by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T18:59:32.036941Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@normandy @tuxcrafting @wolf480pl This happens every time. For me too. I have plenty of international companies I work with. But I don't remember when they open in their timezone. Instead all I care about is that 03:00 is when they start replying to the mails I sent yesterday or such. And if I send an E-mail after 11:00 I'll probably not get a reply until tomorrow.
(DIR) Post #9yenVPZa5Vipnl5hzc by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T19:01:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting "so we figured we would order another pizza, but it was 14:00 so all the everything was already closed""wtf why are the pizza places closed at 14:00""why wouldn't they, it's the middle of the night..."
(DIR) Post #9yenh7WV1QdLIREUz2 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T19:03:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting 7 to 3 is definitely not 9 to 5. You get plenty of time in the in the afternoon. If you work 9 to 5, you don't.
(DIR) Post #9yenuWFYOrqPkWhCRU by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:05:38.014412Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting Now you're just falling for confirmation bias.In a realistic conversation it'd be "so we figured we would order another pizza, but all the pizza places had closed" and the other person assumes it's because it's late.
(DIR) Post #9yenvmpOFUr9SG3v84 by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:06:25.935219Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting Regardless, is it really that important to know when another person's local pizza place closes?
(DIR) Post #9yeo7Y6coKnlGojThg by normandy@biribiri.dev
2020-08-30T19:08:37.020024Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @tuxcrafting @wolf480pl I think you do have a point. Localized time makes sense when people didn't have to work and interact with people outside their town that much. But now with people constantly travelling to different places (at lest pre pandemic) or communicating with someone across the world, it does start to break down.
(DIR) Post #9yeoOGYRJscjl5iJtI by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T19:11:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting no, but it is important to be able to refer to how late in the night it was.Like, people would start saying "2 hours past midnight" or something instead, at which point you have two parallel time systems...
(DIR) Post #9yeomJk17goKalb7RI by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:13:19.954538Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@normandy @tuxcrafting @wolf480pl Oh yeah, it was definitely very useful before when people mostly worked locally. Problem is just that adjusting local business and lives to one new timezone is a lot less difficult than the current situation of adjusting international business and lives to multiple timezones (sometimes at the same time) every day.
(DIR) Post #9yeomKWwBnwV2UUBgu by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:14:37.891668Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@normandy @tuxcrafting @wolf480pl There's actually a fair number of people saying we should just UTC everything.Personally I don't care much. But I do believe that objectively speaking, switching to UTC would fix a ton more than it breaks.
(DIR) Post #9yep44nzORBPTuvKzI by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T19:19:06Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting IMO, if you end up with 2 time systems anyway, you may as well use localtime and UTC and teach people to use UTC in emails...
(DIR) Post #9yepFdSUtR1K8tNnX6 by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:19:07.165030Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting I don't know how your language works but saying two hours past midnight is already an extremely common thing to say here in Norway.And in the first place this mostly just applies if you're ranting about personal stuff across borders."we ordered a pizza in the middle of the night and it got delivered half an hour later"already sounds way more human than"we ordered a pizza at 02:00 and it got delivered at 02:30"to me.
(DIR) Post #9yeq0tCACcuSYiH7rM by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T19:29:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting "half hour late" yeah, sure.But in Polish one would say "it was like 2 AM, everything's closed". If you said "2 hours past midnight" that'd sound archaic as fuck.
(DIR) Post #9yeqGp7N8684XxdFYm by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:32:39.981229Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting We already have two time systems. Relative "The morning, noon, dinnertime, midnight, late night, etc.) and absolute (1, 2 ,3 ,4, etc)By using UTC for business and localtime when talking to friends all we're doing is making a third "internationally absolute" time system.The UTC switch is about replacing the "locally absolute" time system with an "internationally absolute" time system.
(DIR) Post #9yeqSQDbWzKcnV4sb2 by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:34:46.182714Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting Yeah but that's just Norwegian. I don't know if Polish speech is weird, but most languages I know wouldn't care. The important piece of information is "everything's closed" the fact that it's specifically 2 AM rather than "middle of the night" would likely just be a supplemental fact outside of niche cases like if you're building up some horror story where the reader needs to know the exact time as well as the sun's position at the time.
(DIR) Post #9yeqUVw3FMXD6hrhHk by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T19:35:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting I'm not sure about Norwegian, but in Polish, absolute-localtime mixes heavily with relative in casual speak. Also, "morning" can vary from person to person living in the same town. For me, 11 AM is morning, most people would disagree.
(DIR) Post #9yeqiXCPLQxl55CWvY by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:37:41.192462Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting The same applies to most people, but how often do you need to differentiate between if you grabbed your coffee cup at 9 am or 11 am?For absolute time reports or logs of that time it's rather likely the other person would already know what country you're in.Of course there'd be bugs and inconveniences in casual speak. But for many people it would fix far more than it breaks.
(DIR) Post #9yeqkwZFzom0L62NjE by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T19:38:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting it's not about being exact, it's about quantifying how much fucked up you are.
(DIR) Post #9yeqsJINtPomr6erNQ by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T19:39:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting Most people work at the local factory, spray-painting chairs and whatnot. Those who interact with people in different timezones are an exception rather than a norm.
(DIR) Post #9yeqsnAGq99ZUd5ntY by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:39:32.924607Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting I don't know about you, but 2 AM doesn't carry a particularly different quantity of "fucked up" from "middle of the night" in my head
(DIR) Post #9yeqxSsvfPaw2pD37w by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T19:40:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting it's the mild case. As opposed to 4 AM.
(DIR) Post #9yer0CXAupCkCaL4oy by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:40:52.760476Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting Yeah but then you're in the same country.When everyone has gotten used to the pizza place closing when the sun goes down at 14:00 or whenever that point is rather moot.YOUR examples only count if a person tells this story to someone in another timezone over the internet.
(DIR) Post #9yerRb5xhpx8CBfpmi by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T19:45:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting ok, but then when you start talking with someone in another country it's more of a shock/barrier than it is right now. Not only do you need to learn another language, but also what our is the noon for them. I feel like in the end of the day people would just start using UK or US relative. Like, a story contains "7 in the morning" but I'll replace it with "14 in the morning" so that US people understand better.
(DIR) Post #9yerZ4XybST5Z9LFEO by vkk@mastodon.social
2020-08-30T19:46:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting @wolf480pl why can't we just use current system locally and then just use UTC when conversing with people from other countries? we keep following conventions while getting rid of any confusions.
(DIR) Post #9yerZ59CN4F5QakyFU by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:47:10.232514Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vkk @normandy @tuxcrafting @wolf480pl I already do that in all my business mails. Been doing it for 5 years
(DIR) Post #9yerg1nTE5xF40uCie by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:48:26.137030Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting Who knows. Humans would come up with something but exactly what it is I don't know.China already uses a single timezone, but I've never looked too much into how those people live, especially since China's, especially the western parts, don't communicate as much with other countries as say America and europe do with each other
(DIR) Post #9yeriNzZfyO4Tpgvr6 by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T19:48:53.275228Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting Well at least not outside of business transactions where China probably communicates with the whole darn world.
(DIR) Post #9yetz8lTkBXi5JDOzo by vkk@mastodon.social
2020-08-30T20:14:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @quad @normandy @tuxcrafting i think this is definite possibility, for example, all our countries have different currencies but when interacting globally, it defaults into comparison in U.S. dollars.
(DIR) Post #9yeuOywAu9yl8OXZ56 by vkk@mastodon.social
2020-08-30T20:14:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @quad @normandy @tuxcrafting also, almost every non-american regularly makes cost comparisons in dollars, i.e., they know the relatively current exchange value to USD and can habitually make this calculation. so, I think it would actually be trivial for everyone to adopt UTC, they'd only need to memorize a static calculation depending on where they live.
(DIR) Post #9yeuOzM3LwgAQeeEPw by normandy@biribiri.dev
2020-08-30T20:19:00.079949Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vkk @wolf480pl @quad @tuxcrafting might not be so static if the place some lives in uses DST, as it coild change depending on the time of year. But that only ads to the list of reasons to ditch DST.
(DIR) Post #9yeupidjbeNoPKfFWi by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T20:23:48.017890Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vkk @wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting Would definitely work. The question is just if it's worth it. Or in other words, is chart 1 or chart 2 correct. I'd say chart 2 is probably the most likely
(DIR) Post #9yeuuAJOfG6pOBGu92 by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T20:24:38.159700Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@normandy @vkk @tuxcrafting @wolf480pl Ditching DST is something we should do before going UTC tbh.Besides, if the clock no longer needs relation to the sun's position in your local area, DST would be rather pointless by default.
(DIR) Post #9yeuzjfeczuEV7L3Ee by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T20:25:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting @vkk actually, if we want to disentangle the clock from the sun position, we should first move from UTC-based timezones to TAI-based ones. No more leap seconds and stuff.
(DIR) Post #9yevHAEl6nhfok4KtU by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T20:28:45.893350Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting @vkk That'd probably be a rather easy fix.It's just that getting all countries on earth to agree to do something is always pretty impossible. So if we see any changes to stuff like this it'd be extremely slow. Except DST, because for the most part each country handles that on their own and can throw it away if they want to without worrying if other countries will follow suit or not
(DIR) Post #9yevRMHnALeY5ALgMi by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T20:30:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting @vkk wait you actually think basing a 24-hour system on TAI would be a good idea?
(DIR) Post #9yexF8fq9KZeIYtjyS by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-08-30T20:50:47.925795Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @normandy @tuxcrafting @vkk that i don't know. i don't know much about TAI.All I know is that for the most part current clocks and calenders are pretty fucked. I don't know enough about either to propose what would be a decent solution, unlike timezones
(DIR) Post #9yexr9m2VZ1MiKvTN2 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-30T20:57:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @normandy @tuxcrafting @vkk ok, here's what it looks like:TAI - just SI seconds since epochUT1 a.k.a. GMT - solar time. 24 hours == one rotation of the earth relative to the direction of Sun, one UT1 second is slightly more than 1 SI second.UTC - number of SI seconds since epoch, except when it gets too far from UT1, we add or subtract a leap second to get back in sync.http://www.madore.org/~david/computers/unix-leap-seconds.htmlhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
(DIR) Post #9yfiClzODPdBD3PqXg by akater@shitposter.club
2020-08-30T21:06:52.622708Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@rick @tuxcrafting I agree. I have UTC on all devices where it is possible (not possible on my Android phone, hah). That's likely not the weirdest thing I do but that's the one people notice most, I guess. But I often fail to explain why UTC is good.
(DIR) Post #9yh1cDOrX34ZkX8Tqa by mmizore@jaeger.website
2020-08-31T20:47:55.396673Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @quad @normandy @tuxcrafting Good idea, if you run a multinational company train your employees to use UTC in emails, problem solved.
(DIR) Post #9yh1cEMlwIzkkLAKEC by shebang@pleroma.freespeech.host
2020-08-31T20:49:15.091666Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mmizore @wolf480pl @normandy @quad @tuxcrafting I liked Internet Beats. We should bring them back :blobcheerful2: