Post 9xh62Ce86aODltNFdw by klardotsh@toot.cafe
(DIR) More posts by klardotsh@toot.cafe
(DIR) Post #9xh5jKyYubXY6Rw33Q by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-08-01T23:42:35Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
If everyone employed by Google vanished tomorrow the world would be immeasurably better off
(DIR) Post #9xh5kd2DFrzkOwG5qq by lucky@pleroma.mouse.services
2020-08-01T23:43:29.242819Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Finally a Drew post I can get behind.
(DIR) Post #9xh62Ce86aODltNFdw by klardotsh@toot.cafe
2020-08-01T23:44:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir There are people who don't deserve to die just because they're there earning a paycheck, man. Sure, they need to take a long, hard look at their employer's numerous problems and figure out whether they're aligned with those values (if so, why? and if not, why are they still accepting the blood money?), but they don't deserve death, much as how all law breakers don't deserve death despite what your neighbor said!
(DIR) Post #9xh6OiknPXCVipEHqa by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-08-01T23:48:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@klardotsh fun fact, said neighbor is on welfare right now
(DIR) Post #9xh7dww14J7c09Ir4q by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-08-02T00:03:40Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
s/employed by Google//
(DIR) Post #9xh8GRfDGcziJGndmi by masstransitkrow@social.masto.host
2020-08-02T00:09:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir developers who continue to stand by G***** in spite of all the harm they're causing or wish to cause are complicit tools in the destruction of the free and open web, not to mention humanity.I try to see the best in people until they demonstrate otherwise. It's pretty clear they're OK with this.I hope whatever they paid you was worth it. I hope that whatever emergency exit plan you have won't fail you in your time of need.
(DIR) Post #9xh8o26qmeBottk6uu by brandon@fosstodon.org
2020-08-02T00:17:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir i see you, too, dabble in misanthropy
(DIR) Post #9xh9EuvTbEasRMF47s by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-08-02T00:19:19Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@brandon dabbling is not the right word for my relationship with misanthropy
(DIR) Post #9xhK1tslGgKUvyy3qS by tija@pleroma.uwah.moe
2020-08-02T02:23:28.505840Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@klardotsh @sir > There are people who don't deserve to die just because they're there earning a paycheck, man.They could get their paycheck elsewhere.
(DIR) Post #9xhLHOpMb3etCtKh9M by klardotsh@toot.cafe
2020-08-02T02:27:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tija @sir I never said anything to the contrary. I said they didn't deserve to vanish/die
(DIR) Post #9xhLHPSiEl8NAvk7U0 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-08-02T02:36:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@klardotsh @tija I didn't say that they deserve to vanish. I said the world would be a better place if they did.
(DIR) Post #9xhMs41F1am3L6w3Ps by tija@pleroma.uwah.moe
2020-08-02T02:55:19.002310Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@klardotsh @sir Do you suggest sending them to GULAG? That’d be more cruel. And bound to other problems, which may backfire in a decade or so.
(DIR) Post #9xhN0ybqVU2jAUJ56m by roka@pl.smuglo.li
2020-08-02T02:56:56.231623Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tija @klardotsh @sir it's cruelty only when used against human beings
(DIR) Post #9xhNgnfNaCaJOKu17A by mikegerwitz@mastodon.mikegerwitz.com
2020-08-02T03:02:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
(DIR) Post #9xhObVZFXwpLlV4lhg by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-08-02T03:12:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mikegerwitz the basic principle, "the tendency to believe that what people do reflects who they are", falls somewhat flat when you consider that what you do is the only thing that defines your impact on the world, and who you are has nothing to do with it
(DIR) Post #9xhRXTAAqOKt0o72x6 by tija@pleroma.uwah.moe
2020-08-02T03:47:37.169082Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@roka @klardotsh @sir If you’ll be searching for food in the slums around Googlopolis, I’ll leave some canned tuna in my grave.
(DIR) Post #9xhfJB9wNqEGTj5F7A by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-02T06:21:50Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mikegerwitz @sir even if you are right, and google employees are, to an extent, victims of the situation they're in, that doesn't affect whether removing them would make the world a better place.Like, if you make anyone who gets paid by google disappear the moment they get paid, nobody would work for google, and - according to Drew - the world would be a better place.Whether doing so i ethical, practical, or worth the cost i another story.
(DIR) Post #9xhjrQExDeq4uh0pto by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-02T07:12:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir I think what @mikegerwitz is saying is more like, "everyone would do this in their situation".So if you want to fix it, you'd need to make sure nobody ends up in such a situation.
(DIR) Post #9xhomMoR2Gpobb180u by cy@fedicy.allowed.org
2020-08-02T08:08:02.484673Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Including the people employed by Google!
(DIR) Post #9xi05Pph84z6yEtMvo by namark@qoto.org
2020-08-02T10:14:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir yes, we must all understand this fundamental truth. In snake oil industry, it's not the oil sellers or the oil buyers, it the bottle makers who are at fault. When Doodle company's snake oil has best bottles how can our actual medicine(tm) ever compete??
(DIR) Post #9xi7xlsm446cfnCMN6 by temporal@mastodon.technology
2020-08-02T11:41:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir I presume you mean "find new jobs in such a way no two googlers end up in the same company", because them just vanishing would be bad for the world for the same reason we consider the death penalty to be bad (c.f. your earlier toot on it).
(DIR) Post #9xiIihubdx19Vk4h2u by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-08-02T13:42:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@namark in this analogy google employees are making the oil, not the bottles. Which I feel is pretty obvious
(DIR) Post #9xiIyiDiGVjL6GdxYG by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-08-02T13:45:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@namark if anyone's making the bottles it'd be, like, supermicro
(DIR) Post #9xiKG8K0ZcWKvhSVzE by namark@qoto.org
2020-08-02T14:00:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir snake oil is nothing sold as something. It takes no effort to make it, it only takes effort to sell it. Are you saying everyone working at google is a salesperson?
(DIR) Post #9xiKT76MQAv8uUGTya by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-08-02T14:03:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@namark now you're over-extending the analogy. You're suggesting that what Googlers are making is "nothing". What the real comparison with snake oil is not selling "nothing" as "something", but selling something harmful under the guise of being beneficial.
(DIR) Post #9xiKZLNkEwBGwBMofA by Sajori@blob.cat
2020-08-02T13:58:33.201200Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @namark I say this sound like a flat statement. Saying "what you do don't define who you are" is pretty hypocrite at some extent because in the end, what you do become in a part of who you are so in the end. I think this phrase it is most used for people that want to shake off the responsibility of being part of evil deeds justifing that they didn't have a choice when that it is far from truth. There are always a choice but you have to decide the easy way or the right way and sadly in this age of moral and principles decadence; the easy way it is the common choice. I know this world is like this because like a old quote said "the bad people wins when the good ones don't do what it have to be done" Shaking that statement away, I think most of you don't respect the position of @sir about preferring being right that in ease and comfortable but contributing a huge wrong in the web world. Think about the ww2 and how complacent German people and and tell if they weren't as evil as the Nazi itself and Hitler. (I put this as an example, not as a way to judge or condemn the German people. I am just stating a fact.. :ablobcatcoffee: )
(DIR) Post #9xiKZLmClzkMA2oLmy by namark@qoto.org
2020-08-02T14:04:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sajori Not sure who you are quoting. I see the "what you do don't define who you are" was discussed but not in this thread. My point was that in snake oil industry the buyers and sellers are more at fault than the bottle makers, and retiring the bottle makers will not solve any problems.@sir
(DIR) Post #9xiM40fnNvCLdozqu8 by namark@qoto.org
2020-08-02T14:20:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir I simply meant to express my opinion, so I'm not sure why are you arguing the meaning of an analogy that isn't even yours in this context. Nevertheless a quick search reveals, that snake oil originally indeed was an actual snake oil, made out of snake. Ineffective but not harmful, so nothing. The ability to sell this nothing as something, is what allows you to then replace the nothing with another cheaper nothing that might also be harmful. It being harmful does not matter and is not a necessity for such industry. It being nothing is. The cheapest nothing just so happens to be harmful. Nobody advertises snake oil as "this will cure all your diseases by killing you".
(DIR) Post #9xiMO2Ye5TSBHJCgC0 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-08-02T14:21:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sajori @namark don't blame the victims, and don't defend the evil megacorp, bad look
(DIR) Post #9xiNZrHXw6LhjhP9UG by Sajori@blob.cat
2020-08-02T14:14:59.200043Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@namark @sir well, get your statement and put it in the google terms google devs and users are the ones that are making the web going to the hell not google itself. Google is doing their evilness thanks to both of them and the user and devs use the complacent excuse that is not their fault that the web is on this state but then they complain on how worse is becoming all. Pretty stupid on my opinion. They want someone to fix their problem but they don't want to involve at all. I just going to see how bad the web will become and when the IE days return all over again but worse, I will laugh hard! People don't learn unless all goes to hell sadly! :ablobcatcoffee:
(DIR) Post #9xiNZrm26kjfGFfV0S by namark@qoto.org
2020-08-02T14:37:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sajori You think your average web developer is concerned about chrome becoming the standard? You think they cry and moan while (apparently literally everyone at) google is force feeding them? No, they rejoice that they no longer need to support another stupid browser. The so called web platform was doomed since its inception. It was just an attempt to escape the tyranny of proprietary OS, which is why it eventually turned into an OS itself, but you can't fix a foundation by building the right type of balcony. The web would have stayed simple and narrow scope, if the native OS platforms adopted the free software culture. @sir
(DIR) Post #9xiPmH0IKS92tUNnrU by namark@qoto.org
2020-08-02T15:02:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir wait @Sajori? I though I'm the one doing that...
(DIR) Post #9xjIseZT782zCetGTo by mikegerwitz@mastodon.mikegerwitz.com
2020-08-03T01:19:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @sir I'm not certain what "their situation" is, specifically, given how vast Google is, how diverse their employees are. It's not even possible to make informed ethical judgements about "Google employees" as a whole because there are so many different projects and outcomes. It's painting in too broad of a stroke, and is dangerous.
(DIR) Post #9xjJoCuQ7QqkCs8NV2 by mikegerwitz@mastodon.mikegerwitz.com
2020-08-03T01:28:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir That's a valid consequentialist perspective, but consider that many don't benefit from the same situation you are in, able to fund themselves without ethical compromises.I've also been in software long enough to lament that people do not even consider ethical consequences of their actions. I gave a talk on that at LibrePlanet. It doesn't make the consequences any better, but if we hope to work with others to make the world a better place, understanding root cause is important.
(DIR) Post #9xjfyjQlzfICo7WG6S by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-08-03T05:38:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mikegerwitzI don't think Drew was making an ethical judgement here.@sir