Post 9xRGzsluMeWUKfaDxI by tyil@soc.fglt.nl
(DIR) More posts by tyil@soc.fglt.nl
(DIR) Post #9xQYY3UqV5G5VGWVPM by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-25T00:08:25Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
If you use anything other than IRC for instant messaging, I hate you and I hope you step on a lego
(DIR) Post #9xQYY43ERElRDuby0O by orekix@anime.website
2020-07-25T00:16:02.912841Z
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@sir but nobody that I play with uses it
(DIR) Post #9xQZ5uILDbReoJoepc by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-25T00:16:24Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@orekix I hate you, personally, on a fundamental level
(DIR) Post #9xQep6TnGJh1P2Xl6O by wowaname@anime.website
2020-07-25T01:26:21.889896Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir đ
(DIR) Post #9xQfRaDf8eVcdxLZDc by overflow@pl.smuglo.li
2020-07-25T01:33:20.509000Z
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@sir my family and classmates donât use irc
(DIR) Post #9xQhJAD49pwZZGBHBA by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-25T01:43:29Z
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@overflow I don't care, come to IRC and we will make you a new family and new classmates
(DIR) Post #9xQm6sjtmncxgDV7y4 by chaosmonk@social.justos.info
2020-07-25T02:45:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Do you know of anything like https://jmp.chat for IRC? Otherwise, in order to give up XMPP I would have to go back to having a cell phone, which I would find much more painful than the lego.
(DIR) Post #9xQzC1xEFdK36zWOO0 by timokoesters@mastodon.social
2020-07-25T05:13:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sirWhy not something with E2EE by default, federating servers and (if you use a client that supports them) modern features (like searchable history, message redaction/editing, read receipts, file uploads with image previews, presence indicators, ...)? I'm a Matrix fan :P
(DIR) Post #9xR92lbAguzdJwQS7k by tyil@soc.fglt.nl
2020-07-25T07:04:58.642817Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@timokoesters @sir>Why not something with E2EE by defaultWhile that may sound cool, IRC is by default open to everyone. E2EE doesn't do much when some rando can just join the channel and start collecting all the messages. It may be useful for private messages, you then say. OTR comes to the rescue.>federating serversIRC is literally a federated protocol. Entities like Freenode or Rizon are *networks*, made up of multiple federating servers.>searchable history`grep`>message redaction/editingPlease don't. This is just as silly as rebasing a git repository to hide a silly mistake you made, and inconveniencing everyone around you by force-pushing it to the remote. Openness and transparency dictate you don't edit your messages. And redaction on Matrix is a joke too, by the way. The message is still on the server, juts like how any client could've just logged the message regardless of you redacting or editing it.>read receiptsSounds fun if you care about psychologically pressuring your peers into engaging with you. Not so fun if you want to be an adult human being that cares about others.>file uploadsClient side feature.>image previewsClient side feature.>presence indicatorsInterestingly, these are disabled on most if not all Matrix servers, because they cost too much resources for *enterprise level infrastructure*. Also, IRC does have /away to set your "presence", and it's an optional client side feature to do something with it.
(DIR) Post #9xRDVpmScYtGVPp1cm by timokoesters@mastodon.social
2020-07-25T07:52:05Z
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@tyilIs IRC + OTR something a non-techy friend can set up and use? On the Matrix side, clients hide things like authentication behind very user friendly flows, like qr code scanning or comparing emojis.@sir
(DIR) Post #9xRDVqdzPXhzBQrm3k by tyil@soc.fglt.nl
2020-07-25T07:55:02.915745Z
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@timokoesters @sir I wouldn't call the flows used by Matrix as very user friendly. Not if you have respect for the user in question, at least.IRC + OTR can probably be setup by a non-techy, yes. Or you could be a good techy friend and help them out.
(DIR) Post #9xRE3tYJ6WTy37RXmb by timokoesters@mastodon.social
2020-07-25T07:56:28Z
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@tyilYou wouldn't call them user friendly? Why?
(DIR) Post #9xRE3uKAEalORXplNQ by tyil@soc.fglt.nl
2020-07-25T08:01:12.048519Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@timokoesters https://soc.fglt.nl/notice/9xN0Gp4RZ1MaFnXgsSConstant pestering and needing to move between physical devices for simple tasks is not user friendly. Combine this with Matrixâ very common outages, and bridge issues, and persistent performance issues, and huge resource costs for both the server and clients.If it were user-friendly, they would care about the userâs limited resources. Not everyone is a web âdeveloperâ in the Bay area with 32gb memory laptops, and using the latest flagship phone. They should also care about being usable to begin with. I get disconnected on Matrix about as much in a week as I get disconnected from Rizon and Freenode combined in a year! And messages being slower to arrive than email is very indicative of something that is not âinstant chatâ. Itâs a chat, sure, but letâs not give it any prizes it doesnât deserve.
(DIR) Post #9xRED6wUgo6kBU9QG1 by roka@pl.smuglo.li
2020-07-25T08:02:54.040831Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir I primarily use IRC or Mumble, do I get stepped on bullied too?
(DIR) Post #9xREZyrusEzrnuumzQ by roka@pl.smuglo.li
2020-07-25T08:07:01.728367Z
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@tyil @timokoesters @sir IRC + OTR has never been easier ever since irssi added the module to its main tree
(DIR) Post #9xREvsH04mMpig5TzE by timokoesters@mastodon.social
2020-07-25T08:07:35Z
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@tyilYou can avoid the verification step by using your recovery passphrase (automatically generated, you can also set a custom one). The server is slow, but people are working on improving it and also creating completely new implementations
(DIR) Post #9xREvt0jKkwm0VU0GW by tyil@soc.fglt.nl
2020-07-25T08:10:56.871396Z
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@timokoesters I donât really care around my recovery passphrase either when Iâm on the go. The point of that thing is to be kept safe in case of emergency, not as just an extra password.Also, the server has been slow for years. They havenât done shit to make it bearable, except disable a shitton of features. So theyâre backing down on the Great Leap Forward from IRC, because they canât handle it. Note that Matrix has a reasonable budget for the enterprise grade infra. And they canât even get it working on that kind of hardware.Thereâs technically work on âcompletely new implementationsâ, sure. But until one is actually usable with all the features, Matrix is just a very poor protocol/service. Itâs not something you can recommend to anyone you respect, let alone a friend.
(DIR) Post #9xRFnXOTvACGbKAw3E by timokoesters@mastodon.social
2020-07-25T08:19:40Z
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@tyilThe recovery passphrase lets you sign your device, so other devices trust it and also decrypt old messages (if you back up keys on the server (yes they are encrypted)).Remembering the passphrase is a valid option if you are constantly on the go and log in from random devices
(DIR) Post #9xRFnXqUF2bA0BHIhc by tyil@soc.fglt.nl
2020-07-25T08:20:38.935057Z
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@timokoesters No, that's what my regular password is for. The one that I keep in my password store.
(DIR) Post #9xRGrbaUN3ZaihIMQy by timokoesters@mastodon.social
2020-07-25T08:28:13Z
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@tyilIf password==recovery passphrase, then the server hoster can read your encrypted messages (because they can see the password you log in with)
(DIR) Post #9xRGrcWGuDnHbuKVV2 by tyil@soc.fglt.nl
2020-07-25T08:32:35.945046Z
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@timokoesters You can sidestep the issue as much as you want, but the fact remains I suddenly need to store two seperate passwords, one intended for actual password use, and one intended for âthe developers decided something stupid again, and you need this in order to effectively be able to use the application at any point in timeâ. This is not user friendly.The ârecoveryâ passphrase has the word ârecoveryâ in it for a reason, itâs to recover shit in case I fuck up. In this case I was forced to use the same client on a different domain because some idiot decided some badly chosen name should be changed into another badly chosen name.Matrix and its developers donât give a shit about the user, and as such, you shouldnât give a shit about them or their terrible product. Stop praising them for making bad decisions for literal years on end. Itâs not going to get better if you pretend they can do no wrong.
(DIR) Post #9xRGzsluMeWUKfaDxI by tyil@soc.fglt.nl
2020-07-25T08:34:05.866864Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@timokoesters Also, compare this to IRC, where I need a total of 0 randomly generated strings in order to join in on a discussion. I don't need to make a commitment to anything or anyone if I just want to check out a channel and see if I like the people there.
(DIR) Post #9xRHA2Htq4r0k2O9eC by icedquinn@blob.cat
2020-07-25T08:35:57.603301Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@tyil @timokoesters it will all be moot when they finally ram through the encryption backdoor they've been retrying every vote cycle :blobcatgoogly:
(DIR) Post #9xRHFzZ0sanS1yEX3I by tyil@soc.fglt.nl
2020-07-25T08:37:00.879122Z
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@icedquinn @timokoesters I didn't even know they were trying to implement an encryption backdoor. Let me guess, it's to "stop fascism"?
(DIR) Post #9xRHLHFWYI6CKVdbDE by icedquinn@blob.cat
2020-07-25T08:37:59.536995Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tyil @timokoesters EARN IT has a sequel and it hasn't even completely failed as a bill yet :blobcatsadreachrev:
(DIR) Post #9xRL9JSGvRYxVo9Pn6 by timokoesters@mastodon.social
2020-07-25T09:19:59Z
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@tyilI'll leave you with your opinions, but one last note: You hating the name change and all the trouble that comes with it doesn't mean the protocol is bad. (Riot/Element != Matrix)
(DIR) Post #9xRL9Ltdqee15GyIjI by tyil@soc.fglt.nl
2020-07-25T09:20:37.272285Z
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@timokoesters I never stated they were. They are both absolutely atrociously bad, though.
(DIR) Post #9xRodWKeViSao9LLCS by velartrill@pleroma.site
2020-07-25T12:04:19.728066Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tyil @icedquinn @timokoesters "stop terr'ism" in this case