Post 9xJ1v95mRlf88A0V1c by pukkamustard@chaos.social
(DIR) More posts by pukkamustard@chaos.social
(DIR) Post #9xEsobB1xCygzFQUpk by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-19T09:06:27Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
"Fediverse of Things" sounds like it could be disingenuous, but I'm sincere. Plenty of today's microprocessors are packing more power and storage than Tim Berner-Lee's 80486 at Cern that ran the first web server. Running ActivityPub on self-forming mesh and other ad hoc networks would be a great way to structure local information exchangeWhen my daughter plays Overwatch, she's matched with players from all over North America on a centralized server, with all the network latency and power usage that implies. My use case for a FoT would be surfing local Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, LoRaWAN and other protocols for gaming and other social match ups
(DIR) Post #9xEvzL0qgyfhu0TbTE by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-19T09:42:00Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
Umm, microcontrollers not microprocessors
(DIR) Post #9xGpqKf2Q66GnQW7MG by eqe@aleph.land
2020-07-19T19:28:05Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@yaaps the fediverse of small local computers is a powerful idea! Love to see it
(DIR) Post #9xGsMOi76Bs0WyNCW8 by cinebox@cybre.space
2020-07-20T07:31:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yaaps is there any sort of standard for doing ActivityPub over bluetooth? 🤔
(DIR) Post #9xGsMP93U1Q9sWyiVk by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-20T08:10:32Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@cinebox An object needs a "dereferenceable IRI" Lots of room on that canvass
(DIR) Post #9xGxG4xi6rc9JcTVoG by cinebox@cybre.space
2020-07-20T07:36:52Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@yaaps I guess the limits youll run into is needing network connectivity and large amounts of RAM and storage. at that point you might as well go to a raspberry pi instead of a microcontroller (though the line between “microcontroller” and “SoC” is becoming increasingly hard to determine)
(DIR) Post #9xGxG5MsbHkOZgFc2a by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-20T09:05:39Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@cinebox Some of the games I'm working with date back to late 1980s. The only obstacles to running this software today is having a route to submit orders to the game server and getting reliable notifications to playersAround 2010, a friend stopped operating 2 play by email Diplomacy services he'd been running on a home server since the early 1990s so I offered to continue them. I offered FTP credentials so he could upload tarballs, but he asked for a physical address. I was expecting CDROMs. What I got was an AT desktop case with an 80386sx motherboard and a 2 gb hard diskSo I'm pretty sure that, for less than you'd pay for a printed boardgame, an ESP32 can set up an ad hoc LAN and run boardgames, BBS door games, or other games
(DIR) Post #9xHv84g9H16VN0HAQq by eqe@aleph.land
2020-07-19T19:27:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yaaps Tim BL ran the first website, info.cern.ch on a NeXT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT_Computer which had a 68030 not a 486 (although they're roughly comparable in compute power). Sorry for the somewhat useless reply...Source: https://home.cern/science/computing/birth-web/short-history-web
(DIR) Post #9xHv85NOgDhNX8VhqK by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-20T20:16:25Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@eqe I'm still trying to figure out how I got it stuck in my head that TBL's web server a 486. I knew it was a NeXT box and that Jobs preferred the 68k arch at that timeMy best guess is that an article on how the Connection Machine influenced industrial design referred to the NeXT as an "80486 era machine" or similar, but I can't track that down now
(DIR) Post #9xIJnD7pAlJAL4MwwS by cinebox@cybre.space
2020-07-20T21:45:01Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@yaaps Right, but is it the best solution? how many of those services can be run on a raspberry pi or cheap x86 box? You’re going to outgrow an ESP with 4MB of flash and 520kB of RAM pretty fast
(DIR) Post #9xIJnDlslpLoLJ6wNc by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-21T00:52:49Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@cinebox The ESP32 form factor could home a headless server for a single game either portably or sharing a hub with a public IP address for under $35 USD. That's all I'm trying to do on that device. There's no way you'd know that from the few recent threads, thoughHubs, archives, and systems that host multiple turn based games become viable on a single board computer or low end VPS. The main need for these systems is a routable address. NAT translation, slow IPv6 adoption, and local broadband monopolies have done a lot of damage to the idea of operating games as a hobbyGames that are fast twitch or graphically intensive have some additional considerations. I'm hoping to be able to collaborate with others who have more experience producing these with contemporary methods when I start work to publish patterns for open designing
(DIR) Post #9xIKfVQfKqOikF4Wcy by vidak@cute.science
2020-07-21T01:01:41.126831Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@yaaps I am with you on this. Case in point is what @Shufei and I call 'smolnet', gopher and gemini hypertext protocols! Super light, and much more efficient than other heavy protocols! This would be an excellent way to distribute information in really light server hardware (:
(DIR) Post #9xINAwWYqWFZfEwoGe by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-21T01:30:44Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@vidak @Shufei I really like Gemini as a publishing format. Where some see ActivityPub as a publishing format, I see it as more suitable for transient interactions. I've been hoping for a more suitable format to distribute documents, but I've avoided dropping opinions on Gemini because I'd rather wait and see what it becomes on its own first
(DIR) Post #9xIRURDXLyY8AybIgq by vidak@cute.science
2020-07-21T01:30:46.509694Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yaaps @Shufei (:
(DIR) Post #9xIRURlDKlUJrQMCBM by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-21T02:19:05Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@vidak @Shufei For example, one of the more contentious omissions from Markdown is a table syntax and I didn't see a table definition for Gemini textThat said, there's a lot that can be done with block text and directives for syntax highlighting that would enable a client to support the kind of viewing interactions people want from tables without placing demands on the client infrastructure as a wholeMost of my ideas builds on features of the semantic web with declarative programming based on data types. Using table as an example still, it's useful to know that it's table data and to allow clients to treat the contents as table data, but it's important that the server not be allowed to run arbitrary code simply for the reader to be able to filter, sort, and draw charts. I welcome the idea that abusing a Gemini text block to display arbitrary data types in a client introduces the requirement that the data be readable as fixed width text, but I'd prefer that the nuance of that position not get lost as "this person wants Gemini to do a thing that Gemini is being designed to not do"
(DIR) Post #9xJ1v95mRlf88A0V1c by pukkamustard@chaos.social
2020-07-21T08:23:47Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@yaaps I dig it.There was a project called RDFAgents (https://web.archive.org/web/20150321102939/http://fortytwo.net/2011/rdfagents/spec) that went in this direction - a RDF based messaging protocol geared towards lightweight devices and mesh networks. It almost feels like a precursor of ActivityPub for things.An approach I'm tinkering with: ActivityPub over Named Data Networking (https://named-data.net/). Combine that with Low-Power IoT networks (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.07025.pdf) and it might be the FoT.
(DIR) Post #9xJ1vEa62Tsp9dEHTM by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-21T09:07:13Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@pukkamustard The most specifically helpful aspects of AP are that it includes media types, IRIs and any arbitrary semantic vocabulary one may desire by reference. I think the committee also did well by describing and providing an example of the extension mechanism rather than attempting to draft an exhaustive vocabulary or provide functional requirements for any of its semanticsThe result is pretty frustrating for those who want a complete implementation description or the ability to appeal to an authority to establish their correctness, but I think that's a small price to pay to have this great canvas
(DIR) Post #9xJ6ROzBI2tmVUYa8G by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-21T09:57:58Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@pukkamustard By canvas, I'm referring to raw expressive potential. If you use an IRI scheme or media type that's not supported by other implementations, you do lose the ability to federate (that content) with those implementations, but you can always express those values and those who to participate in that conversation can expand their vocabularies to do soI'm thinking that networks orthogonal to HTTP/S will become an essential part of development of AP at some point in terms of having a social infrastructure resistant to surveillance, capture, and coercion. Since the protocol provides a basis for interoperability rather than a guarantee, it won't necessarily end up with corporate stakeholders making binding recommendations
(DIR) Post #9xLekEk295bZmx1GO8 by BalooUriza@social.tulsa.ok.us
2020-07-22T15:31:23Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@yaaps I thought it was a Sparc, not i80486
(DIR) Post #9xM2mDR0NDMxDLayeG by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-22T20:01:02Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@BalooUriza As someone else mentioned, it was a NeXT machine, which would've had a Motorola 68030. I think I knew that, but had a false association stuck in my head from an industrial design articleSome of the software I want to port to ESP32, however, has been compiled on SPARC. These days you need 2 GB of RAM to set up the certificates for your mail server or web server, but you can still run a custom SMTP or HTTP service with TLS in half a meg if you sideload signed certificates or if your trust model doesn't depend on a certificate authority
(DIR) Post #9xOMFnPXynIidWeTNQ by powersource@sunbeam.city
2020-07-23T21:01:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yaaps sort of ssb?
(DIR) Post #9xOMFnyHtd5eNGuDWi by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-23T22:48:41Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@powersource I like SSB. It has good characteristics for repeatable identity, permanent messages, and guaranteed message integrity without regard for network quality. Developers in the SSB community tend towards work on situations related to rural poverty, where conditions will usually include strong community ties, a local mesh network installed by volunteers, intermittent connection to the local network, and a connection to the internet backbone that is unreliable and/or high latencyI'm designing for urban poverty where dependence upon cloud based services, local monopolies and weak social ties at the local level combine to fragment the local network and make expensive, redundant, high quality connections to the internet a requirement. So I'm looking to support the creation of ad hoc networks, populate those networks with content, make services on people's home networks routable, and safely bootstrap local community through discovery and disposable identities in order to lessen dependence upon and expenses for connectivity and cloud services
(DIR) Post #9xOPm5l7b6Dyfepnzk by bhaugen@bob.mikorizal.org
2020-07-23T22:56:04.720209Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@yaaps Interesting comparison.I don't know if SSB is really designed for rural poverty situations, but probly not for urban poverty situations. Don't think I have considered the diffs. Would be good to have one of them comparison tables...@powersource
(DIR) Post #9xOPm6InZtAAM6ahUG by yaaps@banana.dog
2020-07-23T23:28:02Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@bhaugen @powersource SSB was designed for intermittent access and adopted by those working with the profile I described because it's very suitable. I don't believe providing access for Maori tribes or discussing alternatives to Facebook's low atmosphere commercial internet were on the list of use cases before there were implementations, but that's the way design works sometimesI'd like to have local mesh networks on a community level throughout my city, but the truck parked nearest the gate from the parking lot has a "Make Communists Dead Again" hat in the front window, so maybe I'd want to be careful with how much my neighbors know about me. That creates certain challenges in organizing community-based local networks