Post 9x0gF7J767DGY85BkO by TheMainOne@floss.social
(DIR) More posts by TheMainOne@floss.social
(DIR) Post #9wuhUSU9ZgBda7Mlqi by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-09T15:24:21Z
3 likes, 3 repeats
Snap, Flatpak, AppImage, etc - are all attempts to make Linux more palatable to either proprietary software, or to software with reckless runaway complexity. Personally, I want neither, and will give no quarter to "solutions" for their "problems".
(DIR) Post #9wuhXveBbkxetUiJpw by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-07-09T15:26:04Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sir also Docker.They're all basically a means of shoving problems under the carpet.
(DIR) Post #9wuhi6GF07jihxMbcO by holot@freespeechextremist.com
2020-07-09T15:27:59.299178Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @sir The problems don't exist if you can't see them :thinkerguns:
(DIR) Post #9wuj3HcY3omNyWSjrM by 9njT0dNsbv8Yr3nj7I.csolisr@social.azkware.net
2020-07-09T15:42:32Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sirFair point - the main reason why a package requires a specific set of old dependencies to be bundled along, is because the package is available only as a binary. See Steam or Spotify.
(DIR) Post #9wulzfVnakOcmCH1Hc by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-07-09T16:13:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir one problem though is that small teams do this too, sometimes not even just out of cargo culting. it is kind of expected today that things are shipped using docker (or one of the other things). that the current mainstream linux distributions are pushing these things makes it even harder not to do it, as one has to additionally fight the ecosystem then, which not everybody has the time to do.this doesn't make the whole situation better acceptable though.
(DIR) Post #9wumKhccwQfjOzUsy0 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-09T16:18:44Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@bonifartius "sometimes not even just out of cargo culting. it is kind of expected today that things are shipped using docker"This is literally cargo culting by definition
(DIR) Post #9wurHXsLDoyC4lA3ea by mandraker@social.librem.one
2020-07-09T17:13:12Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir #guixsolvethis
(DIR) Post #9wurQJ8lNNkMyw1L8a by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-09T17:15:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mandraker fuck off
(DIR) Post #9wusGlpPxa9F0wzK76 by portpupper@social.sakamoto.gq
2020-07-09T17:26:17.493724Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@csolisr @sir Or it’s LilyPond and requires Guile 1.8 instead of 2.2
(DIR) Post #9wusKQ4SnMT6h3lWwS by ranfdev@linuxrocks.online
2020-07-09T17:25:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sirNix and guix often solve the same problems, but by reinventing the package manager, instead of manually bundling everything in a container.I think nix and guix provide real improvements over classic package managers: rollbacks, easy installation of development dependencies, multiple version of the same program, etc...I'm curious to hear your opinion on nix and guix
(DIR) Post #9wusaAQAkTkun1QeHY by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-09T17:26:42Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ranfdev you functional programming as an OS twits need to get the hell out of my feed, god, you're like the rust evangelists but bigger in scope
(DIR) Post #9wussO9ES3dCZiC4lE by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2020-07-09T17:33:04.970241Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@csolisr @sir Software rot still is quite prevalent with source, specially with moving targets like Qt and GTK.
(DIR) Post #9wutB1nvkTT0mP7O3E by hyphen@anime.website
2020-07-09T17:36:27.384688Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @ranfdev urbit left the chat
(DIR) Post #9wuuUkb1XOrj9h37uS by blueberry@mastodon.online
2020-07-09T17:51:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @sir I disagree. Docker has allowed me to get things running with such low overhead. If it ends up breaking, I can easily start over from scratch
(DIR) Post #9wuuaZNMATQu5qQoE4 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-07-09T17:52:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@blueberry - what things do you run with docker?- why can't you just `apt install` (or equivalent) the same thing?
(DIR) Post #9wuuvbDsUmfHu41eUa by blueberry@mastodon.online
2020-07-09T17:56:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl - A lot of different from https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted- I could do that, but it's such a pain to manage different php/sql/software versions. I'm no expert with Linux, so I end up just starting Linux from scratch. For example, uninstalling pihole used to not change /etc/resolv.conf back to normal resolvers, and it took me a long time to find that. With Docker, I could've just taken down the container and everything would just work
(DIR) Post #9wuv065LgwcSmPBHQu by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-09T17:52:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@blueberry @wolf480pl I passionately hate you and I believe that your value to society is a net negative
(DIR) Post #9wuv1BemSjluLhH1Si by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-07-09T17:57:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@blueberry how do you backup all these databases?
(DIR) Post #9wuv2PgVnCJY94fTiC by blueberry@mastodon.online
2020-07-09T17:57:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl Bind mounts and duplicati
(DIR) Post #9wuvG4iwWMX1BtJsau by blueberry@mastodon.online
2020-07-09T17:57:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @wolf480pl ... and why's that?
(DIR) Post #9wuwIUD8pcG4lr9sX2 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-07-09T18:11:20Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@blueberry sigh... there are reasons why pg_basebackup does more than just copying the database's data directory...
(DIR) Post #9wuwLurCDcGUHTWrOi by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-07-09T18:10:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir i don't think it can be called cargo culting if it's not what oneself believes to be better but what others want of you (and you are forced to do so to earn money). it could be argued that one shouldn't do that, but that's a bit unrealistic if you depend on the job/customer.
(DIR) Post #9wuwOxmnmi3CEZvWHw by blueberry@mastodon.online
2020-07-09T18:12:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl I didn't know about pg_basebackup, but couldn't I just run a cronjob in the container and export the resulting files?
(DIR) Post #9wuwX0OxwaTsf9c1ui by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-07-09T18:14:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@blueberry do you have a cron in the containers? o.O
(DIR) Post #9wuwcGFKSgTZFfbw9Y by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-09T18:13:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bonifartius this is just cargo culting in more words. It's "expected" of you because of cargo culting. Ultimately you're doing it because it's been cargo culted, even if you don't believe in the cult
(DIR) Post #9wuwdboHm0ksQ7bWfA by blueberry@mastodon.online
2020-07-09T18:15:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl I could, either through cron on the host or using something like Ofelia (https://github.com/mcuadros/ofelia)
(DIR) Post #9wuzp0YAQl3sCLByEq by bonifartius@qoto.org
2020-07-09T18:49:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir sure, the things are cargo culted. i was just stating that it may be hard to not do it, even if you want to, because nearly the whole industry is sold on it and you've got to make a living 💁
(DIR) Post #9wv8wzH7xAtC9G6M1w by z428@social.tchncs.de
2020-07-09T20:30:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir ... or, however, to unresolved problems of fixing sort of a "baseline" Linux distribution where you don't have to except, like, two dozens of different major and minor versions of virtually every shared library you could imagine, all more or less massively incompatible. Plus, they seem to solve another problem: Most common Linux distributions and packaging formats still expect software and packages to be installed with root permissions. To me, it rather is a pity that these issues (that ...
(DIR) Post #9wv9EUqloP5X007diq by z428@social.tchncs.de
2020-07-09T20:32:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir ... at least to some point have been around and discussed for as long as, like, one decade and a half, haven't still seen "better" solutions than what we see today. In the end, flatpack, snap, appimage ("static builds on steroid") just seem like a layer of paint trying to badly cover up a whole load of more profound issues. 😐
(DIR) Post #9wvQCAQMTz2WI5FF8y by guenther@chaos.social
2020-07-09T23:45:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir maybe people would take your arguments more seriously if you actually presented them instead of coming up with "witty" insults. i'd argue that all systems of distributing software suck in one way or another (from traditional package managements, over curl-to-bash, installer.exe, appstores, language-specific package management, web apps, docker, appimage, …)@blueberry @wolf480pl
(DIR) Post #9wvQXqr5v50LyC5ZPE by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-09T23:49:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@guenther @blueberry @wolf480pl that wasn't wit, it was honesty
(DIR) Post #9wvR1CuYzlBwlzi2Ua by guenther@chaos.social
2020-07-09T23:54:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @blueberry @wolf480pl jesus christ
(DIR) Post #9wvVHSXL4FhTgUqpxg by charims@mastodon.technology
2020-07-10T00:43:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @blueberry this is why I prefer LXC. Get the low overhead of containers, as well as segmentation, but without the load of workflow limitation docker forces on you.
(DIR) Post #9wvu2IjJkDglmOK59U by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-07-10T05:20:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@guenther @sir @blueberry can't you see that he's not trying to convince anyone, he's just venting frustration and seeking validation?
(DIR) Post #9x0c3XutwGfNmlz7Eu by sofia@chaos.social
2020-07-12T11:51:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir maybe i just want some piece of software that my distribution doesn't offer? how about i just complile it myself and fix 1500 compiler errors while i'm at it 😑?like, i dunno how you real with that shit, but if an appimage is all i get, i will take it.
(DIR) Post #9x0cVUnN8bMWDGn4bY by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-12T11:56:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sofia package it yourself, your distro accepts contributions from its users
(DIR) Post #9x0fp1BNFNdQ1a1A36 by TheMainOne@floss.social
2020-07-12T12:33:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Flatpak is just meant as a package manager with an easy sandbox and/or container solution... Not sure what you're talking about
(DIR) Post #9x0fwByJWybDVwKVyS by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-12T12:35:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TheMainOne I know exactly what flatpak is
(DIR) Post #9x0gF7J767DGY85BkO by TheMainOne@floss.social
2020-07-12T12:36:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir I don't think you do. I would agree with Snaps, but not Flatpak or AppImage
(DIR) Post #9x0gML8I5qkXSISs4m by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-07-12T12:40:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TheMainOne I know exactly what flatpak is
(DIR) Post #9xFSVF4FWpszGPK9B2 by Genstar@meow.social
2020-07-19T15:44:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir What do you mean with reckless runaway complexity?
(DIR) Post #9xFTbd8552Hha7j4oC by Genstar@meow.social
2020-07-19T15:56:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @sofia Not with that attitude.Now to be kind but still honest, if you package yourself a software that a distribution does not have and contribute it to the distribution, not only you are doing a great service to yourself but also other people using that distribution who might need the software in question and don't know how to fix those 1500 compiling errors or don't have the time for it.Helping others is neat.