Post 9w8mDUlZn3Pdb3Ull2 by DeadBreakfast@glindr.org
(DIR) More posts by DeadBreakfast@glindr.org
(DIR) Post #9w8jNpdAluRtL8nm6q by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T11:45:11Z
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Ok, I know this is probably going to be unpopular (I don’t care), I’ve noticed a resurgence in this petition:I object to the concept of “third spaces” because not only does it suggest that there is a special class outside that of male and female but it also acts to relieve the violent men who allegedly threaten trans identified men of any responsibility. MEN need to step up and take responsibility for their own fucked up prejudices and fetishes, and neither push those issues on to women OR expect to be treated as some special third category. (Note: I accept that as a social experiment the petition is intriguing in the fact it lacks the support of the TRAs that DO seek female spaces, and it shows how popular a petition run by two men can be...but other than that my points above stand).
(DIR) Post #9w8jNsU4ADwmBlZ2pc by DeadBreakfast@glindr.org
2020-06-16T11:50:44Z
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Surely a third and fourth space? Would transmen and transwomen be comfortable sharing a space that's just for them? I'd be intrigued to know their objections if that's not comfortable for them, and how much they'd align with the objections of men and women having to share with the trans community. Lacking the support of the TRAs would hardly be a surprise in that case, though I'm sure it would be more due to not being able to invade the privacy of women, and in the case of transmen - not feeling comfortable around actual men. Which seems a bit odd now that I think about it. Women who have become men, not feeling comfortable around men... almost exactly what actual women object to. My brain just started playing the Magic Roundabout theme.@Ladyfat
(DIR) Post #9w8jNw2uv6bhEitQ4O by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T11:54:10Z
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Another good point. But again it’s a petition by two trans identified men so you can’t expect them to have any concept of trans identified females 🙄@DeadBreakfast
(DIR) Post #9w8jNxu80klV02nQeG by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T12:00:15Z
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You make a really good point. I think that having neutral spaces available would really drive home the point that it's not just about wanting to pee. I also think that if they had to use those many of them would cease to see any benefit to dressing up as women. Also those spaces could be used by people who are caring for an opposite sex child/parent/other. @Ladyfat @DeadBreakfast
(DIR) Post #9w8jkYvJ3X9oBP7eUa by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T12:04:34Z
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There is just something quite privileged and absurd in my opinion about asking businesses to build third spaces for people who “feel different” when many businesses can’t even get disabled spaces right. @Fullycaffeinated @DeadBreakfast
(DIR) Post #9w8k0C53khinyG8cj2 by DeadBreakfast@glindr.org
2020-06-16T12:07:29Z
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I've worked in places with gender-neutral toilets and there's always a feeling of unease walking into them. I felt uncomfortable when walking into the sink area when women were in there, I can only assume they felt the same or worse. While I don't object to them as a concept, my experienced reality of them has been unpleasant and uncomfortable.But again, these TIMs asking for their own spaces, or shared spaces, are thinking only of themselves and their needs, others aren't even secondary to them, they're barely even a consideration. @Fullycaffeinated @Ladyfat
(DIR) Post #9w8k0IQu8OlDfkP9bk by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T12:07:31Z
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I know that here one chain of malls (remember malls? they were big and had many stores and food courts and....but I digress) that put in mixed facilities in addition to the sex-segregated ones. But they have the space and the money. You're right about it being harder to do for smaller businesses. @Ladyfat @DeadBreakfast
(DIR) Post #9w8k7iouQTHnXPAot6 by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T12:08:52Z
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Malls never reached us, we don’t even have an IKEA!!@Fullycaffeinated @DeadBreakfast
(DIR) Post #9w8lVbC2XBDSmswT68 by DeadBreakfast@glindr.org
2020-06-16T12:10:28Z
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Incredibly important point there. Who's toilet is repurposed for the trans people? Obviously the women's toilets. It wouldn't be the mens because, well men, but any working space or public toilet even considering removing the disabled toilets would be subject to massive backlash. So... sorry ladies, no toilets of your own. And let's face it, there's pretty much no building in the country that can accommodate yet another set of toilets being installed. @Ladyfat @Fullycaffeinated
(DIR) Post #9w8lVcbFIwyN9Lk71c by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T12:14:12Z
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This is my point, outside of the petition being an interesting social experiment it’s grotesquely demanding and privileged. It annoyed me when it launched and it annoys me now. Men need to take responsibility.@DeadBreakfast @Fullycaffeinated
(DIR) Post #9w8lVcsGHgaG07hhY0 by DeadBreakfast@glindr.org
2020-06-16T12:15:11Z
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"it’s grotesquely demanding and privileged"The TRA struggle in a nutshell. @Ladyfat @Fullycaffeinated
(DIR) Post #9w8lVd51WEnAdhftRI by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T12:15:44Z
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Yes! But I personally expect better from men that claim to be allies. @DeadBreakfast @Fullycaffeinated
(DIR) Post #9w8lVdPEJ6xHeN81w0 by DeadBreakfast@glindr.org
2020-06-16T12:18:12Z
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Unfortunately, and I'm basing this on the interactions I have with my own male friends, and the many men I encounter online, men are actually pathetic, insecure wimps who will only stand up for the things that make them look good to their contemporaries and peers. Not for things they actually believe in. Standing up for things you believe in is effort and takes time and there's football on so I better have another tinny... etc. @Ladyfat @Fullycaffeinated
(DIR) Post #9w8lVf3KBWcal0tZ4K by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T12:23:45Z
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Except for going by the overwhelming support that the “trans women” of the world experience from young lefty men I severely doubt there is a toilet in the land which wouldn’t welcome the badly wigged and bepenised masses right? 😏 @DeadBreakfast @Fullycaffeinated
(DIR) Post #9w8lVfQ0pAlltNVgQq by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T12:24:20Z
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This is true. @Ladyfat @DeadBreakfast
(DIR) Post #9w8mDUlZn3Pdb3Ull2 by DeadBreakfast@glindr.org
2020-06-16T12:28:59Z
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Like I say, they're standing up for causes that make them look good to contemporaries and peers. I'm willing to bet cold hard cash that the majority of posturing young lefty males showing support for the trans movement have no trans friends, but have plenty of online followers that will revere them for shouting into their echo chamber about tolerance and inclusivity, while they know not one single person actually affected by the issue. Taking a broader stroke on this, I have many white, left-leaning, middle class men on my timeline lecturing other white, middle class men, on the struggle black people are going through. And I know for a fact that 90% of them have no black friends. But they're all cheering each other on and exclaiming how virtuous and worthy each other are. As a little test, I posted on my own timeline "wake me up when you've worked out which of you is the most woke and worthy", and the TRA and BLM supporters were first to give me a like. Not spotting the irony in their support at all. @Ladyfat @Fullycaffeinated
(DIR) Post #9w8y42uRBwlC2jtuNs by Wildebeest@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T14:45:00Z
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Perhaps this is ignorant of me, but aren't all places already obliged to have disabled toilets which are single-stall and sex-neutral? Why not use those, if you're a person likely to be questioned or attacked in womens/mens toilets? The odds of being there just as a disabled person is waiting to use it are extremely low. If it's about either not wanting to look disabled, or not wanting to get dirty looks from people who don't think you look disabled... surely *those* are things worth campaigning for to change. @Ladyfat
(DIR) Post #9w8yIBoOtA1rhyoyES by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T14:47:37Z
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Yes! Yes and yes! But that doesn’t have that special glow of trans does it??!@Wildebeest
(DIR) Post #9w8z92VaD374CaDiMa by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T14:57:10Z
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Yes! Yes and yes! But that doesn’t have that special glow of trans does it??!I’m just increasingly aware that so many people even GC people are reluctant to challenge men (in all their glorious guises) about their part in the whole thing. Transgenderism and toilets starts and ends with male violence, pushing it into the ladies or a third space doesn’t solve anything, if anything it excuses the inevitability of male violence. @Wildebeest
(DIR) Post #9w90sgkvW6xc0qjCrY by DoctorDee@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T15:16:36Z
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I usually used the disabled toilet if it's available--I sometimes need more space to maneuvre and feel claustrophobic in the smaller spaces. Do people really freak out if non-obviously-disabled people use them? @Wildebeest @Ladyfat
(DIR) Post #9w95ussduQ83xxCgAy by porcelaintree@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T16:13:03Z
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In the United States, Wal-Mart and other grocery store chains, and even some public buildings, have a "family bathroom" situated in-between the traditional men's and women's restrooms. Instead of an elongated room filled with toilets in narrow stalls, these restrooms have a single toilet, sink, and changing table for infants all in one room with no stalls. The door to the room can be locked. They are intended for disabled people who require help from a companion who may be of the opposite sex, or for parents, particularly mothers, who are out and about with young children and no other adult to assist them. If there's one available, I like to use them because they offer the privacy of a regular in-home bathroom. No one can overhear any of my potentially embarassing-sounding bodily functions, and since I'm in an enclosed room and not a stall, there's no awkward, accidental eye contact to avoid. Stall doors in American public bathrooms have a notorious gap between them and the side wall, and roughly a foot/30 centimeters of unenclosed space between the bottom of the door/stall walls and the floor. @Fullycaffeinated @Ladyfat @DeadBreakfast
(DIR) Post #9w98ofm01nARRKpGue by Wildebeest@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T16:45:32Z
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I have read accounts from people with invisible disabilities with them being aggressively questioned about using a handicapped parking stop, or an elevator, etc. I don't doubt it also happens with disabled toilets, but I have no idea how often that happens. @DoctorDee @Ladyfat
(DIR) Post #9w98zyT6rLZybkNaIC by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T16:47:36Z
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We did once get shouted at for parking in a disabled space . When we weren’t parked in a disabled space! @Wildebeest @DoctorDee
(DIR) Post #9w9AlHrYfYuWK4wIme by DoctorDee@spinster.xyz
2020-06-16T17:07:20Z
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Well I can understand the parking space thing--they are closest to the destination and in high demand--and they really should be for people who have mobility problems; I'd be a bit skeptical of someone who uses a disabled parking space because, say, they are autistic. I've been using disabled toilets for years and have never noticed anyone having a problem with it, but I think it's because they aren't constantly in high demand and don't really provide a significant benefit except to those of us who actually need them. @Wildebeest @Ladyfat