Post 9w4w4qNYHumSvhvppI by joaopinheiro@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by joaopinheiro@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #9qloVtsZZtycLjdcrQ by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-01-07T21:19:10Z
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My thoughts on why the cramped 500 characters maximum Toot is a relic which Mastodon developers should consider revising. Or making easier to change, for the few instances that allow their users more modern space and limits.------Geez...I have encountered the hard core Twitter user mentality in some admins I have made this request to.They were users there for years, are used to the short burst posting, which I as a Forum user find baffling, unattractive and a general pain in the butt, to be perfectly honest.There was a time, in the older days, when twitter started and ran over SMS. The 140 character limit came from that, as people had voice and SMS access, not mobile data.The cramped space, terseness resulting from it, I could understand in that situation. But we have left that long behind.I usually don't feel attracted to responding to the very short one liners. To call that "micro blogging" is a weird distortion of what I consider blogging to be.I do write long posts in mastodon, and much longer form in Blog posts; have a hell of a time to post an announcement in Twitter for those in their measly 240 chars.-----OP at my new Pleroma account, which thankfully doesn't have this Fossilized limit in place. RT of : https://expired.mentality.rip/notice/9qlo8uV1Tez2DauhEG
(DIR) Post #9qlrICI6ctSTGFjqgy by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-01-07T21:50:19Z
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Please look at this status for an important explanation on WHY we don't have more reasonable limits on Toot size, or an easier to change limit. By Design. Mr Mastodon head developer thinks it is best done so.https://busshi.moe/@mewmew/103444186467997545Blog post in gestation on this topic...
(DIR) Post #9qrKRqPVxGwh2o1IXY by sbjohnsrpi@qoto.org
2020-01-10T13:10:33Z
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@design_RG I do see two benefits to having a character count limit though:First, it creates a scrollable feed for people reading the posts. Too many characters, and you aren’t able to do that, as it takes too long to get the gist and decide if you want to read more (a required summary field would accomplish this).Second, it forces people to be more concise in what they write, which is valuable, as readers’ time is at a premium.Of course imho, 500 is too high to realize either benefit.
(DIR) Post #9qs42lhMvu0559LtJ2 by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-01-10T21:41:28Z
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@sbjohnsrpi I have seen a post by Gargron himself stating he was against changing the limit or making it easier to preserve the altered limit in an instance if an admin had made a change. This is an older post, from 2017, so he might have changed his mind, or not; he's got a lot to oversee and think about.One of his argument was exactly the question of vertical space usage by larger posts; he posited that the interface was carefully designed and flowed well visually with average size posts; longer ones could possibly break that flow.But we do have larger Toot size limits here at Qoto (65K), at Hackers.Town (10K) and other instances, and I don't see that problem.65 thousand characters is really generous, I think beyond anyone's needs atm, but certainly avoids anyone feeling cramped in style. I have used just over 3,000 chars in a single post, as it was done here and I focused on the writing, not on the Toot counter telling me I am over sized.Here at Qoto, any post that is long will display a certain length; then a "Read More" clickable line will hide the rest. So the long posts might take about twice the average vertical space, maybe, but they don't display in full unless the reader wants them.I am very picky about design, and try to make my own posts attractive as we are always competing for reader's attention in a never ending flow of new things.For a while I had decided that using a CW was ideal in terms of presenting a long article -- the article collapsed completely behind a CW description, which can be thought of as the title on a magazine page or newspaper piece.Visually, that was nice, compacting it well. Problem -- the accompanying image, always selected to be interesting and attractive, was hidden along with the text. And there's NO way to display that image, if a CW is used. So, I gave up on this since I felt many people would not see the text (collapsed) or be attracted by the image (hidden). The post might be ignored.Gave up on that method; this is a new medium, and we have to explore and experiment, try to find the best way to achieve our goals, in communicating ideas, attracting support or whichever focus a post has.
(DIR) Post #9qs4YBMpXz2TfYizk8 by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-01-10T21:47:08Z
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@sbjohnsrpi Here are two screenshots, one of which I just mentioned above -- Gargron's thoughts on keeping the 500 chars.This came in response to a Git code contribution by LambadaLambda, one of the main developers in the Pleroma project. He contributed code that would take the 500 Max Toot Size limit from the source code, and store it on a config file -- which is exactly the way I think it should be done. (not buried in the code and having to be manually edited each time an update or upgrade version is released, as it is now).First image is his proposal; the second is Gargron's who as project leader denied it and closed the issue. He did expose his reasons.I am very thankful to a Pleroma node admin who provided me these when he saw my posting regarding this issue.
(DIR) Post #9w3PBj4E5kMKXT9z6m by joaopinheiro@mastodon.social
2020-06-13T22:20:42Z
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@design_RG That's one of the reasons why I never liked Twitter. And I also find the 500 characters limit annoying. I'm even considering creating a Friendica or Pleroma account because of that.
(DIR) Post #9w3RBA84Bri45Yoc64 by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-06-13T22:43:01Z
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@joaopinheiro I completely understand.I have a hard time anytime I need to post something meaningful in one of those limited instances.But you could still consider a nice Glitch-Social instance for an account -- mine at Muensterland.social has a 5,000 character maximum, which is plenty. I am quite happy there, it's a small instance and you are welcome to come and sign up.https://muensterland.social/about for details.@rgx is now my Publisher's account and is working quite well for me.Another good Glitch-Social, a small instance too, is https://kafuka.me/about -- the admin, Tom, had a chat with me and was convinced to raise the local limit to 1,500 characters.His instance is well maintained and he will be delighted to get good users who add posts to the local Feed.
(DIR) Post #9w3RXxuplXIarzV0me by joaopinheiro@mastodon.social
2020-06-13T22:47:08Z
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@design_RG @rgx That might be an idea too! 👍
(DIR) Post #9w3VHOxoLebZeSFV44 by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-06-13T23:28:57Z
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@joaopinheiro Give it a try, see if you like. Plus -- you get the extra features of Glitch-Social in both of those.I have been making #MarkDown formatted posts there, and it's night and day difference.Lovely for any serious work, where layout is important.@rgx
(DIR) Post #9w4NdWD3luZC7Ep58K by nipos@social.avareborn.de
2020-06-14T09:37:58Z
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@design_RG @rgx @joaopinheiro I run several GlitchSoc instances to choose from: https://muensterland.social , https://mstdn.es , https://mastodon.bayern , https://social.dev-wiki.de (Part of GGC Project,I'm part of the admin team), https://toot.koeln (I'm only the server admin,not the owner).All of them allow 5000 chars per post because this 500 chars limit is nonsense.You can't have any detailed discussions with only 500 chars.There are already workarounds,meaning threads with many short post answering to each other,but why?!Just set a limit that allows real discussions and there's no need for workarounds anymore.Migrating to GlitchSoc is very easy: https://glitch-soc.github.io/docs/ and you can raise your limit by simply adding MAX_TOOT_CHARS=5000 to your .env.production.
(DIR) Post #9w4Stftm12hKZNKDaa by joaopinheiro@mastodon.social
2020-06-14T10:36:56Z
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@nipos @design_RG @rgx Thank you! I can see that there are some good alternatives out there. 👍
(DIR) Post #9w4eGdJsrwWCjAgiq8 by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-06-14T12:44:24Z
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@nipos Hallelujah Brother -- so good to see an Enlightened administrator. The number of times I requested (and was turned down) an increase in the dismal 500 characters Toot limit. Many times since Eugen likes the 500, and intentionally makes it cumbersome to change -- burying this in various source code files.Every time you get a new version of mastodon (pretty frequent), you need to find them all and edit them all again. Typical obstructionist behaviour, and it's working as planned. Thank you so much Niklas! And for listing those other GS instances too.One of my ToDo list plans is to create a nice list of Glitch-Social instances, all in one place, which I haven't been able to find in the web so far.@rgx @joaopinheiro
(DIR) Post #9w4eK5TscffYw90j8C by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-06-14T12:45:01Z
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@joaopinheiro Try it, João -- you won't go back to the 500 chars sh1t.@nipos @rgx
(DIR) Post #9w4ebdHmBsSShfiQJk by nipos@social.avareborn.de
2020-06-14T12:48:11Z
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@design_RG @joaopinheiro @rgx I linked only the instances I own or where I'm part of the team.I'm sure that there are many more but I don't know them all.There was a list on https://glitch-soc.github.io/docs/ some time ago.Maybe you still find it in the Github history.Or you could search https://instances.social for instances with +glitch version numbers.And you're absolutely right.It's so awful how Gargron tries to protect his limit and makes it extra difficult to change.I'm glad we have GlitchSoc which makes it easier.
(DIR) Post #9w4fdD14vjMvlQDkZs by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-06-14T12:59:39Z
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@nipos Thanks, Niklas! I will look into those.I managed to find an extensive listing of all Mastodon instances -- huge, but which includes the ones with the '+glitch-version' so I can try and copy their URLs from there.The Federation.info site has that but is slow as molasses and it will take patience. But I will do it, it's needed.I have a planned Blog post exposing my thoughts and verbally attacking this dismal 500 chars toot limit. coming soon, as I have written extensively back in January about it -- time to Blow the Horn and let people know.So Glad that Glitch-Social is available. The Mastodon project is really slow in accepting any suggestions and moving ahead.@joaopinheiro @rgx
(DIR) Post #9w4lzHODwywxQIxDfM by joaopinheiro@mastodon.social
2020-06-14T14:10:53Z
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@nipos @design_RG @rgx Since I'm just a user with no technical knowledge, let me ask you a question: Why the 500 character limit? Is there any technical reason for that? I mean, Friendica has been around for more than ten years now and there is almost no limit. Pleroma has a 5000 limit, which I find perfectly acceptable. So, why the 500 character limit? Are we the only ones needing more?
(DIR) Post #9w4m9qUEJdwZAbnlSq by nipos@social.avareborn.de
2020-06-14T14:12:48Z
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@joaopinheiro @rgx @design_RG There is a 500 chars limit because Gargron thinks that nobody should write longer posts than that.
(DIR) Post #9w4paDkSkdWshtf9Iu by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-06-14T14:51:11Z
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@nipos @joaopinheiro Thank you guys -- this discussion is dear to me. I wrote a long form reply, and posted at the top level, just so it CAN be seen and maybe raise discussion, much needed on this topic.Posted at top level here : https://qoto.org/@design_RG/104342887523163680@rgx
(DIR) Post #9w4s5Tr17WNBXklIwa by globcoco@qoto.org
2020-06-14T15:19:14Z
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@design_RG @nipos @rgx @joaopinheiro Great! Thanks for that!
(DIR) Post #9w4sBaD4P2c8zbzFnU by globcoco@qoto.org
2020-06-14T15:20:21Z
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@design_RG @nipos @rgx @joaopinheiro Yes you had it on your mind.I'll be waiting for that!Thanks a lot Rob!
(DIR) Post #9w4w4qNYHumSvhvppI by joaopinheiro@mastodon.social
2020-06-14T16:03:56Z
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@nipos @rgx @design_RG So, perhaps if someone made a poll asking about that specific feature, we'd be able to acknowledge whether people feel that they need some more space or not, right? And, then, we'd all have a better idea about people's opinion. I guess that Eugene has been doing a great work here. But, sincerely, I feel restricted by the 500 character thing and if he is, as I'm sure he is, pro freedom of speech, it's not for anyone to (...)
(DIR) Post #9w4wRNYrb4tyDKy5uS by joaopinheiro@mastodon.social
2020-06-14T16:05:15Z
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@nipos @rgx @design_RG (here we are again...) decide the length of my speech or of anyone's speech.
(DIR) Post #9w4wROG70HUqNTCdJw by nipos@social.avareborn.de
2020-06-14T16:07:59Z
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@joaopinheiro @design_RG @rgx There were so many requests to allow changing the limit.I'm sure a poll wouldn't bring any changes,even if 100% of the users were for allowing it.That's the one topic where Gargron will never change his decision.
(DIR) Post #9w4x8j8vEVJVbHVKfA by joaopinheiro@mastodon.social
2020-06-14T16:15:50Z
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@nipos @design_RG @rgx I think he should. But he is also entitled the right not to. And the users are free to choose too. 👍
(DIR) Post #9w4xDoJ5Sdc141gOjw by joaopinheiro@mastodon.social
2020-06-14T16:16:46Z
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@nipos @design_RG @rgx Anyway, it would definitely be interesting to see the result of such a poll! 😁
(DIR) Post #9w571adtREEwkdE5k8 by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-06-14T18:06:36Z
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@joaopinheiro Niklas is correct, in my view, in pointing that Eugen will stand his ground and refuse changes on the limit. He's stuborn and hard headed sometimes, and many people have got pissed off by how much control he has over the whole project.I think the best course of action is to move to one of the alternatives already available and offering not only larger Toot size limits, but better user controls, and faster performance in the case of Pleroma.Eugen has stated outright that he doesn't even want to see the Toot limit advertised as a feature to attract new users -- as he knows he will lose people if they knew there are alternatives to this cramped 500 he enforces.Brutal, is what it is. I read two great Medium posts by a lady who worked in the Mastodon project a couple of years ago -- she did what I do, prepare documentation, intermediate between users and management, tech and developer teams. And never got a credit mentioned in the project documentation, or any money. She left and was feeling better after it.Her two posts are recommended reading if you have interest on knowing the inner workings of the mastodon project - -and the reason for Forks and splits, etc.https://medium.com/@cassolotl/i-left-mastodon-yesterday-4c5796b0f548and the second one, 27 days later :https://medium.com/@cassolotl/i-left-mastodon-27-days-ago-ae34919290e1@globcoco -- you might want to add these to a reading list. Recommended!@nipos @rgx
(DIR) Post #9w5CODm77ldqGCgMFM by joaopinheiro@mastodon.social
2020-06-14T19:06:43Z
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@design_RG @globcoco @nipos @rgx Thanks.