Post 9w1rPvLbdhXT51vb04 by sir@cmpwn.com
(DIR) More posts by sir@cmpwn.com
(DIR) Post #9w1iUFbzL9XvV1Zxc8 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T02:46:48Z
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https://drewdevault.com/pinebook.html
(DIR) Post #9w1k1wQnG8sNoOyIN6 by jbauer@social.paritybit.ca
2020-06-13T03:03:46Z
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@sir Minor correction: The release year for the T420 appears to be 2011according to https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkPad_History and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_T_series
(DIR) Post #9w1k9Dmh8fN5evgeci by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T03:04:31Z
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@jbauer thanks
(DIR) Post #9w1kdeEZMeISNXEXui by philipwhite@functional.cafe
2020-06-13T03:10:18Z
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@sir Cool! Buying from eBay doesn't really concern me if Lenovo is the seller. Do they still make this laptop? If not, it seems like there would be a danger of them running out on eBay and the laptop disappearing from the world. I would love to be corrected.
(DIR) Post #9w1knRtK6oZ4zhyAD2 by dozens@tiny.tilde.website
2020-06-13T03:10:21Z
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@sir > But, is this the best the modern laptop industry can come up with?No, it is a $200 laptop.
(DIR) Post #9w1kuNnVjBPiKCYaqe by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T03:10:50Z
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@philipwhite Lenovo isn't manufacturing them anymore, and you're not buying from them on ebay lol. And if you're worried about supply problems, and comparing to the pinebook pro...
(DIR) Post #9w1l09XFfR7ppRhfCy by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T03:12:22Z
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@dozens the point is that the cost per unit of laptop performance is regressive
(DIR) Post #9w1l6oNyhQ6YGHXaam by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T03:12:55Z
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@dozens and yes, it seems to be the best that the laptop market can come up with within the constraints of "good for open source"
(DIR) Post #9w1lWdMwHXYlcgMrkO by dozens@tiny.tilde.website
2020-06-13T03:20:45Z
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@sir > the point is that the cost per unit of laptop performance is regressiveDo you think there's any room in your formula to account for the depreciation of a ten year old laptop?> it seems to be the best that the laptop market can come up with within the constraints of "good for open source"good point! I still don't think though pine64 claims to be the "best" or "top of the line" at anything. Their niche to me seems to be "awesome for what you pay for a new laptop"
(DIR) Post #9w1ld8t80VlP7DWlN2 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T03:21:30Z
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@dozens I mean, if anything the deprecation works against the PBP. You can spend $50 less on a 19-generations-obsolete 8 year old laptop and it's better in almost every respect
(DIR) Post #9w1liPK0KqxvWybpWS by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T03:22:01Z
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@dozens pine definitely aims for that open source cred, and for the most part earns it
(DIR) Post #9w1loaWfahfW1ATqwC by dozens@tiny.tilde.website
2020-06-13T03:21:58Z
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@sir also curious about your yellow entries in your table. a "good luck" rating for usable web browsing? what has your experience been?
(DIR) Post #9w1loc7DgIV0woaYXw by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T03:22:20Z
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@dozens stuttery, jarring, slow, glitchy
(DIR) Post #9w1mu06I26FYjoHo9I by philipwhite@functional.cafe
2020-06-13T03:36:12Z
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@sir Lol, okay...is it not a concern that the laptop might have a rootkit or something? I don't know, maybe that isn't an issue.I know the PBP doesn't have that much supply, but at least there still going, and it seems reasonable to expect that they will continue to have similar offerings in the future.Another point is that I already have a PBP, so I'm not worried about supply issues there at all. Plus, my experience hasn't been smooth enough that I can recommend it to friends, so I'm doubly not worried.Is it reasonable to expect that there will usually be decent laptops at sub-$200 on eBay. I never considered that as an option for getting laptops before. I would love a world where laptops weren't so much of an investment.
(DIR) Post #9w1n0hKqCTTWZ7Hmwi by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T03:37:24Z
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@philipwhite you can install coreboot and nerf ME on the T420, so, no, that's not a concern.I have been able to buy ThinkPads sub-$200 on eBay. I've bought five of them over the past 4 or 5 years. They've never disappointed me, ThinkPads are very durable even in the hands of a careless owner.
(DIR) Post #9w1n7hpgkU1e8T3YHY by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T03:38:51Z
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@philipwhite you can also buy thinkpads on the cheap at FOSDEM most years if you're quick about it
(DIR) Post #9w1nJbIuqcJjMXOney by philipwhite@functional.cafe
2020-06-13T03:40:48Z
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@sir Sick, thanks for the empirical data. I may start going after these now.
(DIR) Post #9w1oVuJE74xrjbybFw by Shufei@mastodon.sdf.org
2020-06-13T03:54:02Z
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@sir Ouch...Why do you say “good luck” to web browsing? What issues do you have?I’m aiming on buying Pinebook when funds permit, but wish ARM was better supported. And I worry about uBoot, whatever that is, when all’s I want in a compy is a vanilla bios being made again.
(DIR) Post #9w1ocOPr5b80qaAZOq by izaya@social.shadowkat.net
2020-06-13T03:56:11.089018Z
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@sir I don't disagree with the comparison but if it had better input devices it'd be a no-brainer for melaptops are for ssh
(DIR) Post #9w1rDkiXKuH0dVqkQC by brad@weeaboo.space
2020-06-13T04:25:24.368385Z
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@sir is there something special about bluetooth 5.0? It seems odd that it's a yes/no instead of the category being bluetooth and showing the version of each, like the amounts of RAM.
(DIR) Post #9w1rPvLbdhXT51vb04 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T04:26:50Z
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@brad it has some nice features but mainly I put it in to give the PBP a break
(DIR) Post #9w1u85oUHxaWBncsVc by zachdecook@social.librem.one
2020-06-13T04:56:39Z
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@sirAre the recent Lenovo headlines something to be excited about w.r.t. good laptops for open source? (https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/lenovo-brings-linux-certification-to-thinkpad-and-thinkstation-workstation-portfolio-easing-deployment-for-developers-data-scientists/)@philipwhite
(DIR) Post #9w1vDzcKL3MwfEJc36 by zethra@fosstodon.org
2020-06-13T05:09:14Z
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@sir i just want a light a weight laptop with all the battery life. I'm I asking too much?
(DIR) Post #9w1wBOjmaMhtet84Uy by avery@social.avery.cafe
2020-06-13T05:19:51Z
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@sir @dozens I don't wanna nitpick, but have you got examples? I'm curious, I don't really use large webapps, but it's been fine for me in Mastodon, Nextcloud, and 720p Youtube (I think those are the heaviest websites I use)
(DIR) Post #9w1yJ9A6Zv2rZqGQWu by eliasr@social.librem.one
2020-06-13T05:43:02Z
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@sir I think there is mainline Linux kernel support for Pinebook Pro now, at least it sounds like that here https://www.pine64.org/2020/05/15/may-update-pinetab-pre-orders-pinephone-qi-charging-more/ and here https://www.abdallahsamy.com/2020/06/01/linux-5-7-released-this-is-whats-new/
(DIR) Post #9w203fs1OxpmIMYV3w by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2020-06-13T06:03:06Z
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@sir You are cherry picking if you dont mention the screen though. The Pinebook pro comes with Full HD. Good luck finding a full HD T420 version on ebay for 150 USD. I agree on your other points though.
(DIR) Post #9w27aKt98FDSSMbRDs by closeneough@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T07:26:59Z
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@sir As someone who wants to start working on porting an arm device to u-boot: What's wrong with u-boot? Any alternatives?
(DIR) Post #9w27vBWV9ANdUYx6wK by jmehne@fosstodon.org
2020-06-13T07:31:12Z
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@sir tbf, I think the display itself is missing in the comparison (it's probably hard to find a t420 for that price with a 1080p display) plus you may need a new battery which probably sets you back another sixty bucks for an original one. It is always a gamble with used laptops. And even if you buy an original replacement battery it may be old and deteriorate quickly. But currently I'm also using a used Thinkpad (T440p) and agree with the sentiment.
(DIR) Post #9w2DBxZAn6eeto1Jtg by BartG95@mastodon.host
2020-06-13T08:30:26Z
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@sir What is the best place to buy them? (Ignoring US-only possibilities)
(DIR) Post #9w2M3Xr3Ox8GQWRjQO by herag@dobbs.town
2020-06-13T10:09:59Z
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@sir I clicked your link, and I swear I'm going to read your article, but it is the most pleasant thing to click a link and my mobile browser didn't really seem to load anything. The site just jumps up. It is beautiful.Thank you.(Now I go read)
(DIR) Post #9w2PbCY9Q1BQ3jLRFg by resist_berlin_@chaos.social
2020-06-13T10:49:30Z
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@sir You can check "open wireless firmware" on the T420, because after corebooting it you can easily install a $10 Atheros WiFi chip that is compatible with a 100% free kernel.Weight and battery life can also be improved to 1.3-1.6 kg and 8-12 hours respectively if you go for an X230 instead of a T420.That being said, the Pinebook of course makes sense. Thinkpads won't live forever, so it's good that developers are working on new hardware. Even if there's room for improvement.
(DIR) Post #9w2Qx7mDweyJa4we2q by jboverf@mastodon.sdf.org
2020-06-13T11:04:12Z
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@sir no mention of the default display quality? Also does the T420 wireless chip do 802.11ac by default? Big drawback for me if not
(DIR) Post #9w2bKAL7a7kpjPtSVM by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T12:59:58Z
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@penny it needs them for USB-C displays IIRC, which is why I put this in
(DIR) Post #9w2bRxiYOUUKtxZUaO by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-13T13:01:20Z
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@eliasr it is not complete
(DIR) Post #9w2iJ55EL2UmoptGhU by brad@weeaboo.space
2020-06-13T14:20:14.306293Z
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@boilingsteam @sir The T420 can only go up to 1600x900 normally. You have to go to a 15" model like the T520 or W520 to get 1920x1080, or do a mod where you give up your DP port to use as eDP because 1920x1080 panels at 14" didn't really become a thing until the switch from LVDS to eDP displays a couple gens later. (T440p can have a 1080p panel)
(DIR) Post #9w3u3slBGdW0rYzX3g by penny@pleroma.phicode.de
2020-06-13T09:59:54.228652Z
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@sir hey the open source Pinefrost drivers don't use any firmware blobs, and that's the default, you should really update that to be fair
(DIR) Post #9w3u3t1qGgqJhEmq1o by penny@fedi.absturztau.be
2020-06-14T00:48:14.039537Z
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@sir Also, I think the comparison is unfair. That thinkpad was $800-$1000 new, without upgrading the defaut 4GB of ram. This is competing with, and is made of the same parts as, Chromebooks.It's $200 brand new, and the experience with the right software can be great- I have Sway (thanks a bunch, you made the perfect wm for this, I really appreciate it!)running with ungoogled-chromium on it which is actually optimized for these small devices. The touchpad also works great on Wayland, for some reason It's garbage, unless you're in a third world country with no used market, but it's an open source nerd toy garbage that hopefully some people will get and hack on instead of a Chromebook- and maybe then we can convince them to flash coreboot on their used Thinkpad. And personally with the GREAT battery life under Wayland and low weight, I love using it. I knew it was a cell phone in a laptop chassis when I got it
(DIR) Post #9w3u3tHRKhJsTc5ILA by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-06-14T04:05:49Z
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@penny @penny >Also, I think the comparison is unfair. That thinkpad was $800-$1000 new, without upgrading the defaut 4GB of ram. This is competing with, and is made of the same parts as, Chromebooks.Ultimately the question is, if you have $200 to spare, would you get better value for a PBP or for a used T420+$50 in upgrades? The answer is obvious.
(DIR) Post #9w4B81Ph1SmcAxwl0a by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2020-06-14T07:03:53Z
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@brad @sir there are adapter boards to get full hd support on t420 if i recall correctly.
(DIR) Post #9w4B82rjcgoAgE4fM8 by brad@weeaboo.space
2020-06-14T07:17:44.869369Z
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@boilingsteam @sir Yes, this is what I was referring to with giving up the DP port to make it serve as the eDP for the more modern panel.
(DIR) Post #9w572Ci7twCmolV0cK by dos@social.librem.one
2020-06-14T18:06:44Z
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@sir TBH Pinebook Pro would still be a pretty nice machine if only it had usable touchpad and a keyboard that doesn't eat key combos... I could live with the rest, as having an ARM machine in this form factor is a big selling point for me itself. Sadly, broken input means I don't even want to use it in cases where it would be good enough otherwise :(