Post 9vsNLOQ2bX2VonrvXs by 11235@liberdon.com
(DIR) More posts by 11235@liberdon.com
(DIR) Post #9vsKOag7BJQsqWDj2u by wjmaggos@culturewar.site
2020-06-08T14:05:11Z
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Even if conservatives don't support a lot of the reforms that #BlackLivesMatter is calling for, shouldn't they support weakening police (public sector) unions? Don't the same arguments they make re: other government unions apply here? And why don't progressives support them more?
(DIR) Post #9vsKtxIH9D33xp1eQC by 11235@liberdon.com
2020-06-08T14:10:51Z
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@wjmaggos I think if weakening police unions makes it easier for us to defend our free speech, second amendment and self-defense rights, then we would be for it, but we would need to know we weren't going to get charged with a crime if a black man tried breaking into our house and we shot him in self-defense / defense of our property. How far are you willing to go to attract our support? Looters will be shot on sight. The police are more gentle than we are.
(DIR) Post #9vsMTt4kPM6TGDOaLA by wjmaggos@culturewar.site
2020-06-08T14:28:34Z
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@11235why do you think weakening cop unions will make them less helpful to you in preventing crime, when conservatives are arguing that weakening teacher unions would actually help students?
(DIR) Post #9vsNLOQ2bX2VonrvXs by 11235@liberdon.com
2020-06-08T14:38:13Z
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@wjmaggos Those are two very different issues and the fact that you're conflating them indicates you are either not very intelligent or arguing in bad faith.
(DIR) Post #9vsNebmZ8zjElYZEVU by 11235@liberdon.com
2020-06-08T14:41:42Z
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@wjmaggos Also, you didn't engage my statement that we will need to shoot people when they are looting our stores or attacking us. Is it ok if we shoot more people when the cops aren't doing it for us? We only want to shoot criminals who are in the act, so we can prevent their intended victims from being harmed. That's a lot of dead blacks, statistically. Still a good idea to get rid of the police union and weaken police? There are nearly 400 million guns in private ownership in USA.
(DIR) Post #9vsO1u5zDpGMDwl8Fs by wjmaggos@culturewar.site
2020-06-08T14:45:55Z
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@11235 I know they're different but not materially. The unions make exactly the same argument, that they need/deserve the better pay and benefits and working conditions but it will also make for better outcomes. Their opponents say it's a trade-off between benefits for the employees or the people they are supposed to serve.
(DIR) Post #9vsOqugUnBGuoq9w9o by wjmaggos@culturewar.site
2020-06-08T14:55:07Z
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@11235 because I didn't say we should weaken police. Conservatives never say they want to weaken teachers.I am not against private gun ownership. I want you to be able to kill people who are otherwise going to kill you. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. I don't think I should be able to kill someone if they take my lawn ornament. I don't know where to draw the line. I don't know why you didn't include intraracial violent crime.
(DIR) Post #9vsUIDcL0X5J803Pd2 by Johnny_of_the_swamp@noagendasocial.com
2020-06-08T15:56:05Z
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@wjmaggos I suppose it depends on who you're looking at. The old folks, yes. The younger/new right is not so much against unions and much more defined by opposition to the fundamentalist religion of progressivism.
(DIR) Post #9vsWWeaJjwKwjE7UbA by AtlasFreeman@liberdon.com
2020-06-08T16:21:07Z
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@wjmaggos @11235 I hear what you're saying, and I'm generally against unions.My thought is that the police, or any other institution involving humans, will never be perfect, and the best solution is to keep them as local as possible. Use sheriffs and state audits to keep them honest.Then if Minneapolis is broken, it doesn't mean the whole country is broken. Let Minnesota fix it.
(DIR) Post #9vsXSgXCeHiLZUKoGu by wjmaggos@culturewar.site
2020-06-08T16:31:36Z
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@AtlasFreeman @11235 and I see all unions as an interest group, something I'm generally against. I want everyone to care & be informed & try to understand others' perspectives & then democracy works perfectly. never going to happen but getting closer to that is the best option we've got imo. interest groups unbalance that equation, but they might be useful in offsetting the unbalancing done by other groups, at least short-term. local/smaller is better if the imbalance is local/smaller too.