Post 9uwPtuogQ8WVVUHtOS by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #9uvx7byQNElTNVr0WO by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T10:11:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemoSo I am not allowed to use sock account?I have a sock account before, sd was agreed my following by after asked me question...If he is agreed my following, then why this is a problem?The sock account is not "Intentionally" created for "circumvent people blocking me". I even don't remember that sd blocked me while I made the sock account. I didn't use the sock account report him.It's intentionally created for I viewing post in certain language.In the law of US, intention is the part most difficult to proven someone is guilty.Anyway, I will be careful about these sock accounts next time, maybe not create on this instance.
(DIR) Post #9uwBymqi4H8foYUnGi by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T12:56:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow Block evasion, and therefore sock puppet accounts are not allowed. I had warned you of this when you signed up. I know you did it intentionally to view and not interact with accounts, but if an account wishes to block you, even from viewing, they have that right. Please use yourmain account.
(DIR) Post #9uwEH3SbFM8YSC3aqm by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T13:22:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemoI really don't remember sd blocked me when I sign up that account. sd blocked me a long time ago, why I have to remember that? If someone blocked me, I have to remember that whole life and don't sign up sock accounts forever? I don't have a list in my brain that: "this list of people blocked me a long time before, I can not view anything of them, but I wanted to" while I sign up. This sounds quite like mind control for me. You can not mind control people's intention.Rather say, that is not a good rule if you use the word "intentional". Maybe you change the rule to be: not allow sock accounts from the same IP.If you can't read any Chinese words so you can not moderate those toots, then you can not say anything about my intention because you can't read my mind.And I did nothing against my conscience by the sock account. This is the most important part.
(DIR) Post #9uwF16FtBfMQRX4Fua by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T13:31:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow You dont need to remember sd blocked you.To put it more simply, duplicate accounts are not permitted on QOTO. The reason is because they can accidentally or on purpose circumvent banning. But regardless of if you circumvent a block or not, duplicate accounts are not allowed.
(DIR) Post #9uwF2fqmKbVL824aNU by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T13:31:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemoMaybe you can check the time that sd block me in the database.
(DIR) Post #9uwFQYQ3bx7921xeqG by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T13:36:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow it isnt relevant. Duplicate accounts are not allowed, it isnt related to if SD blocked you or not.Your account wasnt suspended or silenced. If i thought you were being intentionally malicious that might be a different story.
(DIR) Post #9uwMGCw00tR2uYhu9g by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T14:16:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo>Your account wasnt suspended or silenced. If i thought you were being intentionally malicious that might be a different story.Then I have to backup my account often to using more your sever runtime.Register a new account here became difficult, if I want to monitor someone, I rather to use accounts on other instances.
(DIR) Post #9uwMGD97E7vXZEqNbE by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T14:19:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow creating multiple accounts to circumvent a ban (even if one of those accounts is on a foreign server) will result in suspension here.Our one main rule is that you must respect a persons right to disengage and/or ban people.
(DIR) Post #9uwMGDHGjoRtyWetJA by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T14:23:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemoHow can you know what people did on another server or via VPN? This is not the problem you have to concern, feel relax for your life.
(DIR) Post #9uwMGDnsmYXLbfuw8u by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T14:27:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow Depends, someone could in theory hide the fact. but if caught it would result in a suspension.For example you just told me that was your intent, that alone would be enough to get a suspensionI agree that it is a hard rule to enforce, but it will be enforced if we have reason to suspect someone is circumventing personal blocks.How about instead of asking me to relax you try to be a decent person a respect a person wanting to be left alone. Just walk away.
(DIR) Post #9uwMiARkBPUqe3GSWW by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T14:11:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo>Duplicate accounts are not allowed, it isnt related to if SD blocked you or not.Then you have to update the rule of this, I made the white screenshot not a long time ago. Remove the "intentionally" word on there for everyone.Just say"Duplicate accounts are not allowed".It would be far better.
(DIR) Post #9uwMiAd5VEZRDEZWCm by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T14:12:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow alright, I will do that.
(DIR) Post #9uwNR9yolS7yEHBkmm by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T14:15:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow done
(DIR) Post #9uwOJAZQmijnhM4Gfo by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:15:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemoI didn't tell you my intent is to monitor others form other instances, but I am going to tell you can't control what people do in other instances, otherwise, most people would think that you are the control freak.If you are going change the rule to be: if someone blocked you here, you are not allowed to view them from other accounts on other instances, otherwise you will get a ban.I wonder how many people will join this instance if you put this rule there.Face it, fediverse is a such opened place, people worry about being "monitored" should not use it.
(DIR) Post #9uwOWIGRUVDHKBRb5U by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:17:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow Our rule is already established.. it clearly states that opening multiple accounts to avoid bans/blocks will get you suspended.Whether its an easy rule to enforce or not is entierly irrelevant. Should we find someone circumvents the rule we will suspend them.The rule has been in place for a very long time, it hasnt stopped us from being one of the largest instances in the fediverse however.
(DIR) Post #9uwPhV2uPQNk6d1NfE by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:31:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow the other moderators saw the message as well. They seem to be in agreement that block evasion was implied and against the rules.Consider this a warning and should this sort of behavior continue it will result in a suspension as the next step.Respect others right to disengage, simple as that.
(DIR) Post #9uwPneCfH7ZMFDW3Ga by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:32:01Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@freemoI am not a stalker. But I have to tell you, apply this "updated rule" on whole fediverse is not going work.This is the violation of the spirit of fediverse. Mods of an instance can't control what people did on another instance. It's about autonomy. And this is againsting idea of freedom of information.
(DIR) Post #9uwPqXup6qFbc0YLRo by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-05-11T15:33:01.354185Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow @freemo qoto doesn't allow alt accounts?
(DIR) Post #9uwPtuogQ8WVVUHtOS by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:33:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow its not an updated rule. Its the same rule we have always had.We arent controlling what you do on other instances. We are however controlling if we want you on **our** instance based on your behavior on other instances
(DIR) Post #9uwPxzSn5ML74qzTtY by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:34:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew No, people are allowed a single account on QOTO only. Multiple accounts gives rise to ban evasion which we do not allow.@snow
(DIR) Post #9uwPznr7DILTejEUMK by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:34:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmewHe just changed the rule of it.Maybe he will change more.@freemo
(DIR) Post #9uwQ0bZ6OXe5pLBoDw by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-05-11T15:34:50.305179Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @snow I don't think that makes sense as a rule, as long as you are not intentionally circumventing blocks.
(DIR) Post #9uwQ7EFpSjRDYaKikC by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:35:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow Only the wording. Previously it just said that multiple accoutns for the purpose of ban evasion was not allowed. The wording was updated to be clear that multiple accounts in general is not allowed.@mewmew
(DIR) Post #9uwQEYiZmGBx3DH5aC by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:37:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew How would we know if your intentionally circumventing a block or not? If someone blocks you and doesnt want you to read their posts, and you open another account in order to read their posts, how would we know you did that?Furthermore, since accounts on QOTO need to represent people, what purpose could a second account serve?@snow
(DIR) Post #9uwQGfICIvvg1KwN9c by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-05-11T15:37:44.358143Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @snow if someone tells you "stop contacting me", then they can pull that up as evidence for circumvention.
(DIR) Post #9uwQayfnxNt9v8fVFA by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:40:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew The circumvention isnt just limited to contact. For example here we have a case where snow was blocked by someone because they didnt want snow to continue to read their posts.Snow opened a second account excplicitly with the intention of circumventing that and monitoring the account without their knowing. The accoutn was follow-only but snow managed to follow anyway since the person did not know it was an alt account of snow. This allowed snow to make excessive reports on the individual. Point being, it can be very hard to detect when someone is circumventing a ban or not. Since there is no actual practical reason to have a seperate account, why allow it at all?@snow
(DIR) Post #9uwQgoOz3fWlnnaBHc by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:41:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemoThen maybe I should share less ideas to you via PMs for prevent you think anything I am implied.
(DIR) Post #9uwQjSeaNHSBDg8xN2 by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-05-11T15:42:56.841977Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @snow > For example here we have a case where snow was blocked by someone because they didnt want snow to continue to read their posts.Then they should have told snow "do not follow me"?At least just make a rule "you must list your other accounts if you make an alt account so people know who you are".
(DIR) Post #9uwQq857G94ZRYjTYu by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:43:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow when you opened the other account i told you it was against our rules. you could have just deleted the account and it wouldnt have been an issue.So yes, you could have kept it hidden and maybe you would have got away with it. A better solution would you have been to follow the rules and deleted the account.
(DIR) Post #9uwQwGDluRmmQRhkoK by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:44:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemomewmew, that person blocked me very time ago, I even don't remember that he blocked me.@mewmew
(DIR) Post #9uwQxH8dz67LYmn344 by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:45:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew they implied they did not want to be followed when they blocked snow in the first place, which snow circumvented.I agree that listing alternative accounts would be a viable solution. I can accept that as a moderator. But I still need to ask, what purpose would a secondary account solve?@snow
(DIR) Post #9uwQz4WZr0DT19qEHQ by mewmew@blob.cat
2020-05-11T15:45:46.070559Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @snow sometimes people like secondary accounts to separate their posting or reading, by language, topic, etc.
(DIR) Post #9uwR3NrNuGVU90d7HU by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:46:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow which is part of the reason why multiple accounts arent allowed. It can cause unintentional block circumvention as well.With that said, you specifically told me you were created the account to avoid blocks so you could monitor accounts which had blocked you. Not sure if SD was one of the accounts you were circumventing however.@mewmew
(DIR) Post #9uwR5Ie2GfXKY4IdUm by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:46:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmew Thats fair. I will add that exception to our rules, multiple accounts are allowed so long as they are listed as secondary accounts.@snow
(DIR) Post #9uwR6AvcRVgguEwROq by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:46:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mewmewthat's the purpose I made the sock account.@freemo
(DIR) Post #9uwRDSpYHVPASJZyhE by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:47:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow Please dont like, you excplicitly told me you made it to montior accounts that had blocked you.@mewmew
(DIR) Post #9uwRaYZ57x6Etut2ps by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:52:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemoYou need me to posting the original PM here?This is not good looking.@mewmew
(DIR) Post #9uwRbkbRr4xiWgYynY by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:52:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@arteteco @design_RG We need to discuss our rules on multiple accounts now...Obviously we dont allow multiple accounts for ban evasion, but that can be hard to determine, particularly if we talk about intentional ban evasion only.Do we allow multiple accounts, and if so if we require them to list their alternate accounts?I will make this an official discourse discussion as well.@mewmew @snow
(DIR) Post #9uwRtNq7EB8V8gpcuG by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T15:55:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow If you wish. I'm not really going to bother pulling up the pm and defend myself. I know what you said, and I know I warned you it was against our rules.@mewmew
(DIR) Post #9uwSKmOC3pJj65polU by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-05-11T16:00:21Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @arteteco We have a major discussion and policy changes ongoing, which is taking a lot of people's time and energy,I suggest you could create that Discourse forum thread, but no announcements yet - it's too time consuming as it is.We have personal lives and this is exacting a huge toll on my time and energy. I am just requesting time.The example mentioned above is a clear violation of our ToC, and was properly handled.Sadly it went to far, as in reaching Harrassment level.@mewmew @snow
(DIR) Post #9uwSSMWy5NbNDPYSh6 by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T16:01:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@design_RG agreed, i started the discourse discussion but for now we have no users with multiple accounts (other than the incident with snow that was resolved already)...So for now as a policy we can put it on hold until we are done handling the other policy decisions.@arteteco @mewmew @snow
(DIR) Post #9uwSmZVBZJgdEjMENM by snow@qoto.org
2020-05-11T16:05:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemoYou can edit the data on the server, right?What is the meaning of this?You used the words said I implied, and then you changed the words to be I monitored.This is thought crime.Even if I used a sock account to read toots, some of poster banned me, is this a major crime? Maybe I just misread the rule in my second language? @mewmew
(DIR) Post #9uwSnlPklRJKTJNwBM by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T16:05:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow At this point I'd recommend you just drop the subject.Your main account has not been suspended, just relax and try to post for fun.You've been pushing back on issues excessively and monopolizing moderators time. Its reaching the point of both spam and harassment when people need to keep addressing the same resolved issues over and over again.@mewmew
(DIR) Post #9uwSy0wfsJwzXIfh9k by freemo@qoto.org
2020-05-11T16:07:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@snow drop it, you have monopolized too much of my and the other moderators time.It isnt a major crime, thats why your main account hasnt been suspended or silenced.However if you continue to demand to bring up already settled issues and monopolize moderator's time it will become an issue. Just drop it, its over, a decision was made.@mewmew
(DIR) Post #9uwT7nZyQPScyfidXs by design_RG@qoto.org
2020-05-11T16:09:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo Thank you, that's appreciated.@arteteco @mewmew @snow