Post 9uhHDNUrRfrujzUYFM by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #9uhHDN4H2WbLPX3Jo0 by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2020-05-04T07:03:46Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
A little thought about UK feminism and politics in the climate of "gender identity"Apparently the ideas / thoughts of people on political "Right" and in the religious "Right" are antithetical to Feminism, according to some. Apparently, right-wing political thinking and religion are rooted in deeply patriarchal structures and misogynist attitudes that subjugate women. These "right-wingers" cannot be trusted to act in the best interests of women. Therefore, according to some, it is difficult if not impossible to discuss or practise feminism within that region of the political / religious spectrum. At the same time, it is acknowledged that the political "Left" is also deeply patriarchal and misogynist. So deeply patriarchal and misogynist is the "Left" that it influenced a young woman [who claims she is masculine] to write a pledge document wherein it demanded that women who fail to subjugate themselves to "gender identity" ideology should be expelled from the "Left". Such is that patriarchal influence that, during the recent Labour Party leadership campaign all the women candidates actually signed that pledge document. Yet another example of patriarchy not acting in the best interests of women. It is not just the Labour Party that is subject to this. The Green Party, the Women's Equality Party, the Liberal Democrats, the Scottish National Party have all adopted similar positions.Some "left-wing" women exhort other women to stay in those patriarchal structures to work to change them from within, despite being those same women who these parties would be content to expel from membership. Do these women think it impossible that women on the "Right" are saying the same thing? Do these women think it is possible that much of their position here is similar to those women on the "Right"? Instead of accommodating "right-wing" and "religious" women in feminist discourse and practice as a means of dismantling the patriarchal structures across all parts of the political spectrum, those women on the "Left" reject any contact or discussion with the "Right". And yet, neither wing of the political spectrum is untainted by such patriarchal structures and misogynist attitudes. However, there are possibly many more women who do not occupy positions at those extremes of the spectrum. Women who are right of the centre, women who are left of the centre, women who are in the centre and women who are non-political. These women are talking with the Right and the Left. These women are talking to the non-political. These women are reaching out to *all* women in the defence of women's rights and children's rights simply because *all* women and children are adversely affected by "gender identity" ideology and there is not the luxury of having the time to indulge in "purity".
(DIR) Post #9uhHDNEuOz6lwW1oNk by Karu@spinster.xyz
2020-05-04T07:42:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
“Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable - the art of the next best.”- Otto von BismarckI totally agree with you. I have been watching the downward purity spiral of feminist discourse for a few decades now. I understand the desire to be heard in a world where women are constantly being silenced from without and within. So I have some sympathy for having those voices heard, even as I observe how alienating they are for other points of view within feminism - never mind for women who do not identify as feminist.Unfortunately, the remedy for this is fraught with its own complications. We need women in positions of leadership. Well, we were witnesses to the trashing of Hillary Clinton and there have been other women who felt “entitled”, who dared to step forward, who suffered similar fates. The Karen meme is out there for a reason, and it’s to remind women that even when they are entitled - they are not entitled. Women with experience, self-confidence and money, who give no fucks about whether that rude young man in sales think they are fuckable or not, should still walk the face of the earth cowering and silent, daring never to offend, trying desperately to please. How many women hold potential women leaders to this same impossible standard?So what woman is there who is so pure, so worthy who can be supported by either the left or the right? She is a fiction, she does not exist. How do we fix this?@DejaVu
(DIR) Post #9uhHDNUrRfrujzUYFM by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2020-05-04T08:06:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Karu Thanks Karu. How do we fix this? I think a way forward is to persist in changing the climate as we are doing very gradually in the UK, such that fewer and fewer women feel they need to or should be silent. The more women get involved in political activism the more women-friendly formal political structures may have to become to accommodate the demands of that activism. It is about pragmatism, in the end, as that quote above from Bismarck says.The formal political structures are failing women and children so we need to work differently, and I think activism is a way forward. However, it is recognised that, since it is women who have almost 100% of the caring responsibilities etc outside of a normal working day, so that activism needs to be pragmatic to accommodate the time available for those women. This is one reason why we need to include women from across the political spectrum so that as many women as possible have the opportunity to participate. Formal political structures mean including men who are likely to attempt to block in one way or another any real progress. Loads of women being active from home can be far more powerful, as we demonstrated during the GRA public consultation. 100s of women were able to take to the streets on Saturdays and talk with women and give them leaflets over the last 6 weeks of the consultation period. That small action across the country resulted in 100,000 responses to the consultation and it caused a climate change. I think we have to work outside of those formal structures that men created for their own benefit: political parties, trade unions etc.
(DIR) Post #9uhHDNd0xMOH9HJ3xI by LangCleg@spinster.xyz
2020-05-04T08:15:27Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@DejaVu @Karu In addition to women's rights, the idea that child protection somehow belongs to one or other side of a political divide is the most vile thing I've ever heard.It's all about protecting some imaginary integrity of theory. Nothing whatsoever to with the actual wellbeing of women or the safety of children.And thousand tweet threads of me-me-me narc meltdown over non-compliance by lessers has a lot more in common with genderism than it does with any worthwhile feminism I recognise.(I am feeling exceedingly intemperate about this, in case anyone hadn't noticed!)
(DIR) Post #9uhIZEs0IeXGJJIwca by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2020-05-04T08:30:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@LangCleg I'm not sure it's narcissism. It feels more like something similar to a PTSD response to me; that something has touched a very big nerve, if you see what I mean.@Karu
(DIR) Post #9uhKjuBVkPy9FXdueu by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2020-05-04T08:55:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@LangCleg @DejaVu @Karu Absolutely so, Lang, sick of them and their classist histrionics
(DIR) Post #9uhPfhyHiL5bz1H4Lo by Tania@spinster.xyz
2020-05-04T09:50:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
'Narcissist' is overused these days, like 'abusive' and so many others words, but in the context of one person (or clique) denouncing and exposing others (to potential villification by strangers who may judge them thoughtlessly) as a way to excuse her own questionable actions, I think it suits very well.Whew! Sorry all. I can't seem to express myself clearly today.I've read and applauded your ( and others') analysis of how feminism fits into left/right politics. I hadn't thought of any of that! I know that I'm on the left and I don't care who else is or isn't. Some bad actors can't change my belief system, and I'm surprised that someone could feel threatened or discredited by bumping up against someone with other beliefs; so much that she would denounce that person publicly. Without thought to that person's mental health! When Dr Stock, as one example, did the Feminst Current podcast with Natasha Chart (the subject was about the wisdom of aligning with the right to advance certain goals), I wonder if she was thinking of how much Chart and Wolf and others had sacrificed of their own mental health for women and children. Maybe she was, and didn't care because of the connection with the political right. That would be a bit narcissistic, right? Or at least ruthless. And if she didn't spend a thought, that would be too. In any case, I'm a lousy judge (and I'm a nervous breather too😉) , but someone (who is qualified) on Twitter used 'narcissist'' to describe some of these women's actions and I haven't been able to argue with that. Loaded and overused word though it is.@LangCleg @DejaVu @Karu
(DIR) Post #9uhSVpgSU5Iqryv1do by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2020-05-04T10:10:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Tania Your comment about Stock considering those wider issues is interesting. Given the extraordinary polarity of US politics, which is far more extreme than ours here, one wonders if Stock gave any thought at all about what it originally cost the WoLF women given their total abandonment and isolation by the Democratic Party. The politics they had always supported suddenly rejects them all outright simply for defending the rights of women and children. It really does seem very blinkered of some UK commentators, doesn't it? Perhaps it is because of the nature of silos in some parts of academia?@LangCleg @Karu
(DIR) Post #9uhSVprRpE5rQ43nlo by Tania@spinster.xyz
2020-05-04T10:19:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I don't know much about academia, try out my shame. You're probably right, as usual.I suppose we all suffer from a selfish lack of awareness at times. Didn't Julie Bindel promote some kind of video of feminists throwing talc at Miss America contestants? I need to confirm, I guess, but that seems way worse to me than the DC3 asking a politically connected male TRA some very good questions.@DejaVu @LangCleg @Karu
(DIR) Post #9uhSVqDmUBxSXKVda4 by LangCleg@spinster.xyz
2020-05-04T10:21:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Tania @DejaVu @Karu LOL @ "the DC3"!I don't give a flying fuck who talks to whom, if their motivation is child protection. Academia theorising about political purity with regard to child protection is fucking vile.Won't be moving a millimetre on that one.
(DIR) Post #9uhSiXtpuuDhTfEptY by Tania@spinster.xyz
2020-05-04T10:24:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Right? I think the important word is "talking". Not "colluding", "attacking" or anything exciting like that.@LangCleg @DejaVu @Karu