Post 9uIvXuTbTWD1EbXRom by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
(DIR) More posts by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
(DIR) Post #9uIibRh97xgDiyEEym by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T10:03:16.007157Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
honestly you could read jean-paul sarte's books or you could just play nier automata
(DIR) Post #9uIibRw2EbacT9C8Bc by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T11:54:44.770664Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu OOF, really? Not a fan of his perspective. If you think Nier approaches that, that makes me cautious.
(DIR) Post #9uIjQCCoTYJCSDEx72 by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T11:55:58.821906Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@druid it depends on what parts you don't like
(DIR) Post #9uIjQCN5rKX2y63A8W by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:01:14.525463Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@druid it's mostly about "the burden of freedom" that is associated with sentience (or humanity if you want to speak in a more narrow sense) and the exploration of literal tools made by humans now having to deal with thatthey're denied the purpose of what they are built for, they can no longer do what they do because they were designed for it, but rather because they have decided to do itall the bloodshed can't be simply washed away because "this is why I was made"
(DIR) Post #9uIjUNuMuM2fuIbtSa by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:04:40.668736Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu It's kinda like arguing that Disco Elysium is Marxist then: the alignment is on just one part of the overall philosophy
(DIR) Post #9uIkHh1Ucz9nNeSFU0 by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:06:59.606167Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@druid no but it was inspired by marx in some way, just as automata wasi just think its more succint and impactful, and the burden of freedom was basically his main sticking pointhe has some famous quote about how a paper cutter doesn't have to worry about the paper its cutting, that each time it cuts away it destroys a little more each time until there is nothing but ribbons, because it has no choice, it's a paper cuttertaro basically made an entire game about it
(DIR) Post #9uIkPhEliQUUMSTr2O by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:15:00.900663Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu Yeah but he also made depressing bullshit about how the very fabric of existence is suffering and he spent a fair chunk of his life being a slimy communism apologist so there's also thatFew thinkers are "always right" though, even Plato had bruh moments ("man is a featherless biped")
(DIR) Post #9uIkQ2BHqZBRJk0s1g by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:07:26.007491Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@druid by "just as automata was" I mean it was inspired in some way by jean-paul
(DIR) Post #9uIkekbjT0ER9rOrrc by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:17:11.217136Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@druid yeah obviously, on the whole i think he was ok thoughi appreciate someone who can say that plays, poetry, and novels are about applications of experience rather than knowledge, and often are on par with philosophy itself or can even surpass itin a very meta way automata fits his philosophy as well lol
(DIR) Post #9uIkhAbZmPEaMoTrRg by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:18:11.608775Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu Eh, I guess I see your point. I just think he was kind of a pussy, I guess, and I don't like what he had to say about some of the human condition.
(DIR) Post #9uIlGA4dkMGSr3lCNc by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:20:22.994652Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@druid i don't think taking everything people say wholesale is ever a good ideathere are a lot of things i don't agree with him about, but i think what he has to say is valuable as well
(DIR) Post #9uIlIpfC5YXoQD8DlQ by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:24:59.829128Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu Some people are right far more often than others, though. I found little to disagree with in Memories, Dreams, Reflections.
(DIR) Post #9uIlZYKTn18raGPowq by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:27:23.128528Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@druid I try not to think about what is right or wrong, or more correct, but what is closer to my own observations about the world around meI don't want to create a monotone voice, but a series of voices that are actually based on the outside world rather than the inside world being entirely absolute
(DIR) Post #9uIlieqYvXvMP5lPG4 by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:29:40.052153Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu And yet, it is indisputable that the correctness of a statement is a variable factor. "The sky is blue" may not be objective or provable, but its "less wrong" than "the sky is constantly flashing between yellow and red a hundred times a second"
(DIR) Post #9uIlyIugF9Zj0l9OLY by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:32:15.220273Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@druid Well yes, but it's different when it's about existence rather than something like physics
(DIR) Post #9uIm1Ch5p3ewakB59s by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:33:00.853393Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu And yet even within existentialism, some ideas clearly have more truth to them than others.
(DIR) Post #9uImJ4zrBD1TvnTiEa by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:35:00.946249Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@druid It doesn't really seem that way to me
(DIR) Post #9uImJ58ieG70NHcn32 by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:36:14.696666Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu Then let's try it out. About a year ago I was exposed to an idiotic post that said something like "The meaning of life is to serve your race, I don't see how anyone can live for anything else."What is your view on that statement?
(DIR) Post #9uImZbIMrWGyjk0xFo by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:38:55.696480Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@druid It doesn't make sense to me, but I can't exactly prove it wrong and i can't deny that someone thinks it's correct
(DIR) Post #9uImkbi9ek8HDDKB8K by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:41:12.473407Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu Exactly, and that's as far as rationalism can take you when dealing with existentialism. But it doesn't mean that all existential positions have equal validity, it simply means you're using the wrong tool for the wrong job. The classic scientist's problem.Listen to your inner McCoy for this one.Let's try a Sartre position: "Hell is other people."What are your thoughts on that? Please give it the consideration it deserves, I think such a powerful statement merits more than brevity.
(DIR) Post #9uInLC4DxlOMOR5pPU by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:46:50.425091Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@druid For the most part I think he's right about that, there is only so much you can do to connect and understand others, and often there is nothing you can do about their influence on your lifeby and large, the majority of people will cause you a major problem by simply existing, and there are only so many friendships and connections you can make, only so much insight into only so manymost people are a violent, hysterical black box that will never understand you, nor it
(DIR) Post #9uInT5g3bVD4tNYRlo by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:49:15.585152Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu But in the context of the play, the characters were four strangers stuck in a room together for eternity. Don't you think there would be some merit to their having company instead of being imprisoned in isolation? Some way for them to connect and coexist, especially with the material demands of the outside world gone and only four of them?
(DIR) Post #9uInqn1oamT60G248G by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:51:52.006894Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@druid Well the context of the play and the statement itself are pretty different, but yeah the idea of "if life gives you lemons" makes more sense within the play, since they basically can't do anything about itbut i mean, that situation is also pretty horrible, it's possible that nobody involved could ever get along as well
(DIR) Post #9uInr956bEAkOpk0Jc by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:53:03.581274Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@druid basically, even in the play, i get what he's trying to saythere are people who, if I was locked up with, would probably result in everyone trying to bash each other into the wall to death
(DIR) Post #9uInzNBo1uZ6TInYZ6 by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:55:04.923083Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu I see his point too, but I really don't think the statement has universal validity on the same level as "the price of existence is eternal warfare", for example.Another statement by a man I disagree with on a number of things, but one which I think bears fruit the second you use it to examine nature at all, unlike "hell is other people" which you've now had to spend several posts qualifying.
(DIR) Post #9uIo9UlGjSU6qrDEOG by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:56:26.511746Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@druid I don't really think there is anything I could agree with without qualifying it in some way, at least personally
(DIR) Post #9uIoC7qCPGHQdLlyCm by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:57:24.100376Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu Yet some existential statements require more qualification than others. Hence, we can strive to be less wrong.
(DIR) Post #9uIoFGtpBS2tb3y7Qe by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:57:58.186840Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu Consider the problem spiritually. Would you not agree that Hinduism has more merit as a lens through which to view reality than Christianity does?
(DIR) Post #9uIqdFJYvZfDXWZDDU by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T12:59:44.926820Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@druid yes, but that's only because of the way I view the worldthis is what im trying to get at, i can only account for myself, which is why I use "agree" rather than "i think he's right"
(DIR) Post #9uIqdFT8LzJu1D2r8S by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T13:03:19.353290Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@druid unfortunately it's so hardwired into the human brain that I still use it by accident but I guess it doesn't really matter because agreeing is the same thing to some peoplei dont really know how else to communicate what i mean other than citating posts all the time so I try not to care too much
(DIR) Post #9uIqdFfBdAxecagTvE by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T13:24:40.990614Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu I think you shouldn't lose sight of the existence of truth. It may not be exact enough for the strictest objectivity but it does still exist. If you didn't understand that, you wouldn't have argued in my defense.
(DIR) Post #9uIrLVkNC3XxFIDMy8 by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T13:27:50.396682Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@druid I'd rather believe in truth as a flexible thing, otherwise people may use it for horrible thingsPossibilities, as bad as some of them may be, is much better than one singular unresistable truth
(DIR) Post #9uIrLVx8QbkrssBYrQ by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T13:32:40.981012Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu And yet, you've experienced it. And you know that *all of this* is just a story we're telling ourselves to make sense of it.In that sense, everything in that story is true, too.
(DIR) Post #9uIvXuTbTWD1EbXRom by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T13:35:49.822453Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@druid All I'm saying is that I'd rather have a choose your own adventure, for everyone involved, even if some of those choices are not what I think is right
(DIR) Post #9uIvbmS9FReHVahfs0 by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-22T14:20:28.475638Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu I agree. Without free will, sentience is meaningless.
(DIR) Post #9uLV11D9OsW1EPNVXk by death@husk.site
2020-04-23T20:06:38.156777Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@druid @Majkatsu Sartre just falls apart when he moves from localized Anguish to his call to action "Truth must be universal!" Axiomatic nonsense riding on the coat-tails of much better work.
(DIR) Post #9uLVNr5JDTbaU8bEuW by Majkatsu@yorishiro.space
2020-04-23T20:10:35.864600Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@death @druid I just take the good bits out of everything, there's plenty I don't like but it would be a shame to dismiss the parts I agree with just because it's within things that I don't entirely accept as a whole
(DIR) Post #9uLVRwxdJKO5rsxhD6 by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-23T20:11:30.014460Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu @death I think most people would agree with that. The foreword to the retranslation of The Unique And Its Property springs to mind, the one that tells you this translation is for those who can take only what is useful to them from Stirner's work, and all other work, like a "laughing ghost"
(DIR) Post #9uLWHZOCC71Fow05su by death@husk.site
2020-04-23T20:20:50.065136Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Majkatsu @druid Out of their original context they're liable to preform entirely different functions?The contrast between "man is only what he makes himself" and "if i as a worker choose christ before communism, i am condemning the entire world" is the frog's intended point.i think one is at risk of falling into Dostoevsky's trap if they take an open ended deconstructor like "paper knives".
(DIR) Post #9uLalxisgd9hnIQKPo by druid@yorishiro.space
2020-04-23T21:11:08.656135Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@death @Majkatsu True, but I think Alice is talking only about what Sartre had to say about the nature of sentience and purpose, since it's something that features prominently in both our shared universe (that we write in) and Nier Automata (which she's currently playing)